LR3 with only 45K has major failure

[R_Lefebvre]

are YOU joking?
it's got some special alloy steel that allows pathetically wimpy suspension components to be just as strong as properly designed ones? Where is your proof?
["Don't believe your eyes, believe me"]? That suspension is cheap crap period.

I don't have the drawings for the LR3 suspension to prove what it's made from, so I don't have what you're looking for. And if you don't even know the relative strengths of alloy vs. cast iron... I can't help you with that, you're lacking in some very fundamental knowledge to have this discussion. You're holding up an impossibly high bar for me to meet, while you are allowed to critique a design from the comfort of your PC and not even understandings the basics of metalurgy.

Obviously you've made up your minds so, there's no point arguing it.

Nobody here has said that the parts didn't fail, or that they didn't fail early, and it's really bad. What we're arguing about is the unknowable. Will they ALL fail like this? Clearly unlikely, as I'm sure there are many trucks over 45,000 miles already, and there's not a SINGLE complaint with NHTSA. You're saying this was done to save cost, I'm saying it's not, neither have proof... though some of us have actually worked for an automaker.

show me a pic of one that failed on a stock height truck driving down the highway and I will agree that it has anything to do with this discussion.
Reply With Quote

Show me any time EVER than ANY truck ANYWHERE has had a complete and catastrophic shearing of the axle TUBE before the axle shaft broke, no matter WHAT suspension is on it, and then you'll understand the relevance. There's some real MMMM steel that shipped in the middle of this decade.

 

[michaelgroves]

Champion the Tacoma front suspension all you want; it is undeniable that the LR3 handles better and flexes better.

until the front wheel rips off...

Like this?







Point is, of course, not that Toyota=Bad, LR=Good. Just that you can't tell from a single event, or by just looking at a component, how robust the entire assembly is. It's hard to find a tinnier looking suspension setup than under a 1980s Subaru - but I have seen 20 year old, high mileage Subarus survive being repeatedly jumped over ramps that I am pretty sure would wreck a Toyota or a Land Rover. The overall design matters more than the individual component design, and in this day and age, I'd be amazed if it's possible to work out the breaking point of any individual component without using some pretty sophistcated software, and knowing all about the system as a whole, and the materials and manufacturing processes in detail.

What caused this particular LR3 failure? We'll never know, unless it becomes a common fault. Which, as far as I'm aware, it isn't.

 

[muskyman]

gone

 

[DiscoveryXD]

I disliked the things when I found out they had independent suspension! Just another reason to add to the long list of reasons why I wouldn't own one.



screw that ford built crap.... (I wrench at a ford dealership, so I can say that :bike_rider

 

[Mike_rupp]

I have a question for the engineers. These stamped control arms are shaped in such a way to maximize strength, correct? It's not like you could have a flat piece of metal and expect any strength.

What happens if you are out in the desert somewhere in a rock garden and happen to slide off the rock and one of those rocks happens to kiss that control arm? I completely understand that this is a completely unlikely scenario and has never happened to any of us who have been off-roading, but for sake of the discussion, let's assume that this happened. Now that there is a dent in the control arm, will this space age alloy with these magnificent properties be able to withstand the same load as before?

 

[muskyman]

gone

 

[Mike_rupp]

Too funny.

Wasn't R_Levebre talking about how engineers were brought on at the automakers who didn't have any passion for automobiles? How could anyone that is an auto enthusiast design a stamped steel suspension arm for an offroad vehicle?

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

Diverging topics to multimillion dollar aircraft parts or high tech alloys when we are talking about the LR3. The simple fact is the parts are wimpy and cheap. There is no getting around it and it's hilarious that a couple of you are defending it.

Talking about hypothetical alloys and metallurgy applications... who is the one webwheeling here?
C'mon. It is what it is. That is cheap engineering.

 

[lexwoody]

Do you think the salt ate the metal and made it weak?

 

[proper4wd]

Well, I'm one of the guys "defending" it, I guess.

I guess I just refuse to base my opinion of a vehicle and its build quality based on one isolated failure I saw on the internet. Instead, I like to base my opinions on real first hand solid knowledge and experience, such as handling these components, taking them apart, putting them back together, driving LR3's both on road and off, etc.

I find it remarkable that so many of you are writing this off as "cheap crap" simply because it failed. You still do not know how, or why it failed. Jumping to a conclusion like that makes you all look so foolish.

I will continue to "defend" the LR3 suspension indirectly while continuing to defend common sense and reasoning. It would be easy for me to jump on your bandwagon and point and laugh at Land Rover's "cheap crap engineering", but I think I'll choose to formulate my own opinions instead.

I do also notice that all of you have skipped over the Tacoma that has a similar failure, except it is of the cast/forged part that is supposedly so much better. Also please note the stamped steel lower control arm on that Tacoma.

I don't wish to argue with any of you any further; I don't need the headache. But I'm asking you, for the sake of common sense and reason, to really think about what you're seeing here. It is ONE failure. Need I start pointing out other failures on vehicles from other manufacturers? Tacomas have a whole list of them: frames breaking, tie rods breaking, etc.

If you need to pound your chest and claim, "I saw this coming years ago," then that's fine. I will give you your fame. You correctly guessed that at least one vehicle out of many produced would have a suspension failure. You are truly savant.

 

[I Leak Oil]

I think this thread has officially hit a brick wall.eepwall:
If you don't like the LR3, don't buy one.
If you do like them, knock yourself out.
Jason T.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

sooooooooooo is the RR Sport any different? As far as suspension goes . . .

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Champion the Tacoma front suspension all you want; it is undeniable that the LR3 ... flexes better.

I'll give you flex... I've never seen a Tacoma with that much up-travel :coffeedrink:








OK, I have. Toyota had known ball-joint failures on their IFS front axles (equipped with stamped control arms by the way ) though they did full recall and repair any trucks that had this issue. On top of that there is a history of broken suspension components resulting from the use of spacers, etc. No vehicle is perfect, but given the millions of offroad miles that the Tacoma has seen I'm beyond comfortable with the design and quality of materials used (other then the stellar frame work that Dana did )

EDIT: for example the picture of the Tacoma above, aftermarket parts. Lets not judge a Toyota by the aftermarket parts installed Do some searching and you can find plenty of pics of broken OE ones

 

[michaelgroves]

No-one can "defend" a broken part if it didn't happen due to abuse. The only other possibilities are that it's a bad design (or part of a bad design), or that it didn't conform to the design (QC issue).

So either way (and again, assuming no abuse), it looks like a black mark against the LR3. If, as some are suggesting, it's a design issue, then we would expect to see many similar failures. Ditto if it's a major QC problem.

So, simple question - how common is this failure, or is it just a storm in a tea-cup?

In the end, if failure's a very rare occurrence, we'd all have to accept that the actual designers and manufacturers seem know what they are doing, regardless of how spindly the part might look.

 

[JSBriggs]

Here is another failure, however this one was caused by hitting a pothole.

http://www.lrrforums.com/showthread.php?p=114749#post114749

-Jeff