How capable is a 60 or 80?

[luk4mud]

Background: I currently have a well built Jeep Wrangler- 4" lift, 33's, air lockers, armor for the armor. I find myself MUCH more attracted to the expedition type trips than the "conquer a rock pile" stuff jeepers are more known for. That said, I don't mind a tough trail if it leads to something I want to get to. However, a short wb vehicle on a long trip is punishing to say the least.

So the questions is ... if I came to the dark side, owned a 60 or 80, 2.5 OME lift, 33's, lockers, armor etc, how many of the trails I can currently run in my TJ would I "give up"?

Examples- could I still run these black diamond trails without beating the tar out of the rig?
-John Bull in Big Bear
-Dusy Ershim in Sierras
-Rubicon
-Miller Jeep Trail in Frasier Park
+you get the idea+

If I were to post this question on a Jeep board, I would get the expected reaction- basically telling me I'm a fool for giving up a short wb, built rig etc. If I post it on MUD, same thing the other way. So ExPo crowd, I really want your honest views- not the "homer" stuff for TLC's or Jeeps.

Has anyone else here made this sort of switch and did you have any regrets? I know if I do it, I'll never spend the $ to build another Jeep, so this is a one way street for me.

Thanks in advance for any help- remember, no "homer" stuff!

 

[THATSALEXUS?]

Since you've already accepted the fact that you'll have to give up one thing to get another, I will say that an 80 with 33's, lockers and a moderate lift is an exceptionally capable rig. I've wheeled with plenty of them. Can you run the Rubicon? Absolutely, I've seen it done. Will you struggle more than you would with your jeep? Probably so.

I've wheeled with plenty of 80's set up like what you are thinking about and they can get just about anywhere you'd want to go. You just want to have sliders, bumpers and a well placed skid plate or two.

My rig is a little more extreme than what you're aspiring towards, but I have rarely been on trail in which I thought a jeep was performing any better overall than my 80. And I've been on plenty of trails where my 80 outperformed Wranglers. I'm not saying this as some kind of Jeep hater, I'm not. If I could justify the cost, I would love to own an Unlimited Rubicon and set it up as a slightly less extreme camping and wheeling rig.

The biggest handicap is the overall size (mostly the width). You need to be very aware of the trail and the obstacles or you will end up missing parts and denting up your rig

 

[NLXTACY]

Well I will came at you from the MUD side of it. I have both an LX450 (80- series) and a 60 series. Jeep deficiencies are well documented and so are Toyotas. Wheel base aside...

I have my 80 series for expedition and the 60 as my DD and occasional off-roader. The 80 is perfect for expedition use. Mainly for me was because, in all honesty, I didn't have to do much to get it to a point that I needed to upgrade anything. Everything I've done can be considered a mod. And I've done a lot so far and 99% purely for added comfort or convenience or safety.

The LX is comfortable for long excursions, the 60 is not. The LX has MANY aftermarket products and mods available to it along with a forum with a voracious appetite for information. The 60 doesn't seem to have the same level of aftermarket support and more of the mods seem "home grown".

Both the 80 and 60 series trucks have nothing more to prove as can be seen by their use in any 3rd world country. The 80, in my opinion, is more ready in stock condition to go direct in expedition mode than the 60 is. I know there are 60 owners that will shoot me for that statement but being as I have both I am comfortable with that statement.

As far as going anywhere your TJ can go, well either truck will follow if not lead in most cases. The limitations on both is respect to the TJ is the wheelbase length and the width. The 80 series, especially with flares, is pretty darn wide.

 

[RHINO]

with respect to wheelbase a well built wagon will follow your wrangler,,,, and in some case will be more comfy doing it as far as angles and such.

i think if your ready to leave the heavy rocks behind in favor of a more well rounded rig you'll be surprised where you can take a wagon.

 

[adventureduo]

Well we have both. A TJ and a 80. The TJ we use for day runs where we'll run small trails like John Bull, Pilot Rock, Cleghorn, Gold mtn. Places we don't mind being bounced around and having no room. Places where we don't mind a soft top or where we can take the top off. Then when we want to go on long hauls we have the 80 for complete comfort and reliability. Combined with the solid axles and factory E-lockers and i you have a great platform that will get you through situations too. The limitation you have with the 80 is that it's somewhat long ( i used to wheel the snot out of an XJ) and it's like a potato getting through the tough stuff. The plus is that it doesn't come with a d30 and a d35

You'll wheel and have just as much fun in a wagon as you will with your SWB... no doubt about it. You might have to work a bit harder to get through tight spaces, but in the end if you're headed towards more overland/expedition type trips... it will all balance out.

Oh and the list you posted of trails aren't that big of a deal. We are setup for overland use, but with our 33's and lockers we could make it through any of those. It's when you head to Johnson Valley is when you're in trouble. Been there, done that.

 

[luk4mud]

Good stuff, keep it coming!

JV holds absolutely zero appeal to me, other than as a spectator.

 

[redthies]

I have had a lifted 05 Rubicon, and 2 BJ60s. In stock form, with open diffs the 60 would stay with the Rubi until I locked front and rear. If you are locking up your 60/80 you will go almost everywhere the TJ went. Obvious wheel base factors aside. I haven't owned an 80 yet, but I want to. I have driven a diesel non-turbo 60 to southern Mexico and back to Canada with no great discomfort. I agree the 80 would be a "bit" comfier. :sombrero: Long and short of it: If you aren't heading into super difficult ( read: nutso ) terrain, you will never regret the move to either of the TLC wagons.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Background: I currently have a well built Jeep Wrangler- 4" lift, 33's, air lockers, armor for the armor. I find myself MUCH more attracted to the expedition type trips than the "conquer a rock pile" stuff jeepers are more known for. That said, I don't mind a tough trail if it leads to something I want to get to. However, a short wb vehicle on a long trip is punishing to say the least.

So the questions is ... if I came to the dark side, owned a 60 or 80, 2.5 OME lift, 33's, lockers, armor etc, how many of the trails I can currently run in my TJ would I "give up"?

Examples- could I still run these black diamond trails without beating the tar out of the rig?
-John Bull in Big Bear
-Dusy Ershim in Sierras
-Rubicon
-Miller Jeep Trail in Frasier Park
+you get the idea+

If I were to post this question on a Jeep board, I would get the expected reaction- basically telling me I'm a fool for giving up a short wb, built rig etc. If I post it on MUD, same thing the other way. So ExPo crowd, I really want your honest views- not the "homer" stuff for TLC's or Jeeps.

Has anyone else here made this sort of switch and did you have any regrets? I know if I do it, I'll never spend the $ to build another Jeep, so this is a one way street for me.

Thanks in advance for any help- remember, no "homer" stuff!

I've been through the Rubicon with 80's that were almost stock. Last weekend I went through with a 62 that was SOA and had auto lockers.
If the stars align I'll do Dusey with a group of 80's, they do it every year.
As far as it goes the Jeep board would be wrong to say you were a fool.

The wagons take a lot more work to get through the tougher trails. But they do get through and without damage, in fact I think they have more fun than I do in my built FJ40. Plus they have a lot of creature comforts in camp that I forgo with the FJ40.

As a base line I have an FJ40 trail rig (36" swampers, SOA, ARB F&R, dual t-case, 4:1 Orion, and very little armor because it's a pile of rust), a UZJ100 (triple locked, 3" lift, 33" Toyo MTR's, sliders) that sees service on Death Valley and other longer trips and an FJ60(suspension lift, Detroit lockers F&R) I haven't figured out what to do with yet, I'm thinking it will eventually be our Death Valley central Nevada truck. Something that is simple to work on and old enough we won't get panicked about a little body damage.


All that said if you have the bucks I'd look at the Unlimited Rubicon since your already a Jeep guy.There is a lot to be said for sticking with what you know. SWB rigs suck for more than a couple of days camping, the unlimited versions of the Jeep seem to be a nice compromise of size verses performance. The cost is the only thing that puts me off.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I never did answer the question. I'd go with the 80 given the information you provided. They are a bit larger than the 60 but a whole lot more comfortable and heavier built.

 

[logos]

I feel your pain. I have CJ-7 that I love but it is way too small for anything longer than a weekend trip. Have you thought about a 4runner? Longer wheel base and the Toyota reliability is very attractive to me.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I sold this...

and built this...

Do I miss the Unlimited? Honestly, yes... sometimes. The Unlimited was built to be my ultimate cross over rig. A do it all, master of none type of Jeep. It walked the Rubicon while towing a trailer and didn't miss a beat doing it. It had a one off suspension system that worked well without fail. It could go fast (Relative term with 6 cylinder motor) through the desert, catch air, crawl rocks and still look good taking the kid to the malt shop. I loved it.

When I think of the times I miss it, none of it has to do with the trail performance of my 80. Since selling it and building the 80 I have not said to myself once, "I wish I had the Unlimited to get through this section." The 80 has handled everything I've thrown at it and it's handled them well. It's also handled them in a far more comfortable fashion than the Jeep would have.

Would I have driven the Jeep to Alaska or even Tierra del Fuego, sure, but I would not have been as comfortable in it as an 80 series. Comfort is an understated essential. If your uncomfortable it's taxing both mentally and physically.

The 80 is also more fun to drive than the Unlimited. The Jeep was a point and shoot affair. The 37's, partial hydraulic steering and long travel made it that way. I gave out numerous rides to buddies in the Jeep with some begging to stop and some begging for more. Will that happen in the 80? No, but the 80 is still more fun on the trail because you have to pay attention and drive it.

However, the 80 did not come without it's problems. This is after a total engine rebuild due to a head gasket failure. So far Mr T. has not shown me his reliability that he is so well known for. I've replaced just about everything under the hood of the 80. However, a lot of the items were a "While your there type" vs. a "Have to" type.

The 80 and 60's (I don't own a 60, but have driven them) are built totally different then the Jeeps I have owned. They are "Bomber" over built, while the Jeeps I have owned have always had a "light" feel to them.

The 80 series are widely recognized as one of the best overland platforms ever offered in the United States. They didn't achieve that status by accident.

I have no regrets selling the Unlimited for the 80 series. I do regret not holding out for the color or year 80 I wanted (Get a 95-97), but I don't regret the switch. I hope this helps you out with your decision.

 

[fowldarr]

I've owned all three. 90 Jeep, 88 FJ62, 96, FJ-80, and currently have an 84 FJ-60. Hands down, my next one will be an FJ-80, for the type of camping and adventure that my family has taken on, there is simply not a better platform. Now that is for us, we do a lot of family camping, and just trying to get lost. My 88 FJ-62 was awesome and if I could have another just like it for the same price I paid, with the same miles, I wouldn't hesitate, it started my love affair with cruisers. That being said the 80 was better for the family. The Jeep, was great when I was young and single (chicks love jeeps with the tops off), but wasn't suited for long trips, and I often found myself cursing the seats, ride, and soft top if I drove any amount of distance.

So for me, hands down 80 series. (the 60 section guys on mud are going to disown me)

 

[ntsqd]

So for me, hands down 80 series. (the 60 section guys on mud are going to disown me)

Yep! I'm reporting you just as soon as I finish here.


The 80 would be my first choice, except that I'm not particularly fond of their styling.
I tried sitting in an LJ Rubi and tried to convince myself to buy it. For a lot of reasons it wasn't going to work, which was a shame.

So I have a 60. Eventually it will mimic a lot of the 80's desirable features, but with V8 power.

 

[ProwlerDriver]

I did just that. went from

To

No regrets! I have more room. Cant do some of the trails i used to but i dont have lockers anymore. I just like the fact i dont see a million of them around. I did love my LJ though....

 

[luk4mud]

Ok, you guys have pretty much convinced me. I called TLC yesterday and talked to the service manager for awhile. He says that even Toyota has been surprised by how long the older LCs have lasted. He tells me that he routinely sees well maintained 60s with 300k+ on the motor that have not been touched- amazing!

I have a buddy who just bought an 80 and is building it. I think I'll wrench with him awhile, take a trip or two and see what I think.

You guys gave me some great information- anyone want to swap for a well cared for TJ?