custom rear bumper
- Thread starter warrpath4x4
- Start date
mountainpete
Spamicus Eliminatus
This build deserves some constructive criticism - especially the d-rings, which mongosd2's comments are bang on with. Esthetically, to each their own.
As for deleting this thread, it will stay as long as it's respectful. Simple as that.
For the comment about "deleting this thread as well", if you are speaking about the LR3 coils thread, that actually wasn't deleted by a mod. It was deleted by the original poster.
Pete
traveltoad
Aaron S
Really? If the original poster deletes the original post the entire thread goes away? I had no idea.
mountainpete
Spamicus Eliminatus
The board is currently configured so that a thread creator can close (and thus hide/delete) their thread. It's being considered whether or not to keep it that way, but that is the current status.
Any other questions just PM me or post in the Admin section.
Back to this bumper... >>>
Pete
Scott Brady
Founder
The coil thread was deleted by the original poster, not a mod. Just an FYI. . .
Scott Brady
Founder
There must be critical discussion and even outright dismissal of certain modifications on this forum. Some of the stuff posted is not safe or practical. Those with experience must be able to communicate concerns and criticism. As with all things, it is just how the criticism is communicated.
To say: "That XXXX is a piece of junk" or "how stupid to build XXXX" does nothing to communicate the issue or concern. We are simply asking to not flame the poster but to educate them. There are other forums for schoolyard banter.
This is a good example of specific, critical commentary by bri
People do build and install stupid stuff. No one is safe from critical observation, myself included, as evidence with the receiver shackle.
To say: "That XXXX is a piece of junk" or "how stupid to build XXXX" does nothing to communicate the issue or concern. We are simply asking to not flame the poster but to educate them. There are other forums for schoolyard banter.
This is a good example of specific, critical commentary by bri
People do build and install stupid stuff. No one is safe from critical observation, myself included, as evidence with the receiver shackle.
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
There is a HUGE difference between listing the safety issues and design concerns of a build (which is fine) and telling someone that something is "crap" or looks like "AXX"
The first is behaving like an adult, the second is acting like a child.
If your goal is the improve the builders skill or protect the innocent then you have to do it in a way that gets the person to listen and respect your thoughts.
As soon as you call them or their design names they have shut down to anything else you have to say.
Tougher skin would refer to the fact that if you mentioned that they d-rings were not rated recovery points and would cause severe injury and the Original poster started to whine about how you guys all were "hating on him". My response to him would be that they comments were valid and civil. If you just post up that it is a piece of crap, well then he would have a right to complain.
Your comment "backwoods bumper build" is an example of a non-constructive comment. Do you really expect a person to want to learn from you after starting a sentance like that?
I agree with all the comments made in this thread about the form and function of the bumper. I never told anyone they were wrong in making those points. It was the language and the tone that of some of the less than useful post that I question.
I think that should clarify for you and most of the rest of the folks in this thread that Expo is all about safety and improving quality, but in a civil way as honorable adults should act.
Back to the regularly scheduled bumper comments...
1leglance,
I think you're taking "civility" to mean "positivity". Descriptors such as "crap" and "a**" are subjective terms for describing a subjective quality, namely aesthetics. You evidently want to weed out the negative comments. If someone had told the OP that his bumper was "bad a**" would that have received a rebuke for not being civil?
Incidentally, I did a search for "bad a**" (without using the asterisks) and came up with 34 threads.
I'm not against keeping ExPo different from other forums and seemingly family friendly, but I think you and several others only wish to see positive comments, cloaked in terms like 'constructive criticism'. Telling someone that their work is ugly (in not so few words) IS constructive criticism - I would certainly take those words to heart before my next work of art...
I think you're taking "civility" to mean "positivity". Descriptors such as "crap" and "a**" are subjective terms for describing a subjective quality, namely aesthetics. You evidently want to weed out the negative comments. If someone had told the OP that his bumper was "bad a**" would that have received a rebuke for not being civil?
Incidentally, I did a search for "bad a**" (without using the asterisks) and came up with 34 threads.
I'm not against keeping ExPo different from other forums and seemingly family friendly, but I think you and several others only wish to see positive comments, cloaked in terms like 'constructive criticism'. Telling someone that their work is ugly (in not so few words) IS constructive criticism - I would certainly take those words to heart before my next work of art...
Scott
I am glad you feel this way, in the end the value of the information will be higher because people are able to speak their minds on what is presented to the community for review.
Threads often go the way that this one did, and some of the best most informative threads I have ever read have gone the same way. They start by someone posting what they think is really special, A few people outright laugh at the offering and the original poster gets upset. The attention and fact that the thread stays on top brings the accurate informative posts that educate the community and provide the long term searchable information that a forum needs to be of value to the community.
Clearly the owner of the truck wants to be an enthusiast, The builder was trying to promote his work and the community got some good accurate information from the thread. In the end I bet the owner will fix the recovery points the builder will improve his craft and one more used disco will be used off road instead of getting clunkered for a prius.
Thom
Well said.
Criticism - about aesthetics, build quality, safety, etc, - should be expected and in some ways encouraged.
The aforementioned bumper looks terrible and appears to have some questionable design characteristics that could render it unsafe, (weld on d-rings). To encourage pride and attention to detail in someone's work is a good thing, it helps. Many times when a design is thought out completely, ie form and function, you arrive at a functional design both appealing to the eye and in this case safe as well. We're grown men and women, stop the "mommying".
Criticism - about aesthetics, build quality, safety, etc, - should be expected and in some ways encouraged.
The aforementioned bumper looks terrible and appears to have some questionable design characteristics that could render it unsafe, (weld on d-rings). To encourage pride and attention to detail in someone's work is a good thing, it helps. Many times when a design is thought out completely, ie form and function, you arrive at a functional design both appealing to the eye and in this case safe as well. We're grown men and women, stop the "mommying".
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
Nope you just aren't reading what I am typing so I will try again..
I agree with everyone's core thoughts about the unsafe use of the d-rings and the overall poor function of the design in regards to departure angle, effect on the rear quarters and the swingout.
Now if you look carefully you will notice I was able to make my comments about the design without using terms like "crap", "looks like aXX" and such.
I didn't call it a "backwoods" design I simply stated the issues noted.
A person can be civil and provide constructive thoughts. Matter of fact there have been a few of those post already.
What we don't need is a bunch of childish 1 liners that don't inform/instruct or add to the conversation.
As a Tobacconist I would have to smoke some truely terrible cigars. I could choose to spit it out, stomp on it and tell the salesman never to bring dog rockets like that into my shop again.
Or I could say, well the draw is very tight, the immediate impression is bitter and the aftertaste is ammonic which leads me to think it was a young batch of lower quality tobacco. If you were to make the following changes you might have a place in the market.
Now which of these treats the person with respect? Both find fault with the product but in the first case I would be acting like a idiot and in the second at least he might be willing to listen.
It is all about making this place better, and there is no need to be harsh when trying to do so. See a poor design call it out, but it is possible to do so without using vulgar quips.
OK. This same argument seems to get brought up every few days. I'm done.
S
stu454
Guest
Would there be a difference between 'that bumper looks like crap', 'that bumper looks awful' and 'that bumper is aesthetically challenged?'
Any perceived differences in those remarks would be directly related to the thickness of the reader's skin.
I don't enjoy the 'crabby bastard' style comments very much, but I feel that they have there place.
Any perceived differences in those remarks would be directly related to the thickness of the reader's skin.
I don't enjoy the 'crabby bastard' style comments very much, but I feel that they have there place.
michaelgroves
Explorer
Yes, and it's not on ExPo.
1LegLance's explanation of the difference between being rude and being critical was spot on. It's just an adult thing - the ability to point out flaws and discuss weaknesses in someone else's work (or opinions) without being mean.
Of course it's a good thing to criticise poor design, correct misconceptions, identify dangerous practices etc. But one can do that constructively, and without subjecting the person to ridicule. (Indeed, several people did so). Quite apart from the unpleasantness, it's counter-productive to be mean and dismissive of someone's efforts or opinions. They naturally get defensive, and fight back instead of analysing the criticism. Other readers just see a bunfight instead of an interesting or enlightening discussion.
If you can't see the difference, or can't see why it's important that a person can expect criticism without ridicule, don't post at all!