Advice Wanted, Expedition Vehicles with Electronics for Developing Countries,

[geovalue]

We recently completed a circumnavigation of Africa in a 1997 80 series Landcruiser. I chose that vehicle because it had no electronics and could therefore be repaired by local mechanics. It could even be push started if necessary. I carried basic spares (belts, plugs, filters, pumps etc.) and lubricants.

We are planning to travel through Central and South America and then across Asia in a 2009 Nissan, Titan with a camper. My question is; what is the best way to prepare for taking a vehicle with electronics overland through developing countries? Which electronic systems can shut a vehicle down? Which electronic spares should I take with me? Can I diagnose electronic problems myself? Any advice on this topic would be helpful.

Tom

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I don't know if this can be answered in a general sense, it's very vehicle specific, and you should speak with Titan experts.

But, to try and give a general answer... Many electronic systems could potentially shut down a vehicle. The most obvious one is the engine control unit. If it goes bad, you're done. Another obvious one on modern vehicles would be the starter interrupt circuitry, the security system. Most modern vehicles have keys with chips in them. If you lose the key (or the battery dies), the reciever malfunctions, or the computer malfunctions, you're done.

In some cases you can get away with things. On my 2004 Discovery, I got the transmission controller wet, and it stopped working. I was stuck in 1st gear. I actually unplugged the unit completely, and the transmission went into a limp home mode. I now had Park, Neutral, Reverse, and 3rd gear (high and low range on the T/C). I was able to drive like this indefinitely. Acceleration from a stop was sluggish, but other than that, no big deal.

I also have an ECU that controls the ABS and TC systems. This one, I believe, is also dispensible.

For sensors/actuators, killer items are Crank Position Sensor, Fuel Pump, Coil Pack. Without those, you're done. From there, we could go into items that will have a lesser or greater effect.

 

[EuroJoe]

Can I diagnose electronic problems myself?

Tom

I know my friend got a diagnostic comp for his range rover relatively cheaply (it was an older range rover). i think that may be the best place to start, that and a code book, or internet access to look up the fault codes.

 

[Scott Brady]

In some ways, modern vehicles are easier to repair and in many cases fail less often in the first 100,000 miles. The computer can provide a lot of information on what is wrong and make swapping parts easier and more exact.

I remember driving back from CA in my Isuzu Trooper and it started running rough and threw a code. I plugged in the ODBII, found it was a coil pack for the #6 cylinder. I was immediately relieved, as I knew we could make it to Prescott and called ahead to the Isuzu dealer and bought the pack and had it waiting at the parts desk. In 15 minutes I changed it out and was on my way.

Find out what the common failure modes are for your Titan and bring a few critical spares- FedEx or DHL will take care of the rest. Have an OBDII reader and carry the common items like belts and hoses and probably a starter (assuming it is an automatic).

Have a great time on your trip and let me know if you need any details or contacts for Central and South America.

 

[CanuckMariner/Nomad]

Tom, suggest you might chat with your local Nissan stealer where you bought it and get to talk to the shop foreman. I am sure he will have the answers as to the most common problems affecting your model and suggest some spares and how to R/R them.

There are some Nissan forums you could Google for and they might have some hands-on insights as well.

http://www.titanowners.com/forum/?gclid=CJn1qo-WrKACFRQWawodZxJkZQ

http://www.titantalk.com/

http://www.clubtitan.org/

http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/

http://www.nissantitanforum.com/

The list seems endless....

 

[R_Lefebvre]

In some ways, modern vehicles are easier to repair and in many cases fail less often in the first 100,000 miles. The computer can provide a lot of information on what is wrong and make swapping parts easier and more exact.

I agree. I think a lot of the anti-new vehicle sentiment is due to people assuming that new vehicles will break down as often as older ones did, but with the added complexity of the electronics making it a nightmare. As I've said a few times and caught hell for, on my trail runs it's always the older trucks breaking down, never the new ones. And it's very true that modern OBDII is awesome for telling you what the problem is, instead of having to diagnose a random misfire. Not 100% accurate, but usually better than nothing.

I even managed to fix my wet transmission control module. I just unplugged it, to avoid any electrical damage, and tried to dry it out as best I could on the trail. Once I got back into town, I bought some electrical switch cleaner, opened the case, sprayed it down, blew it off with air, and it was perfect. Still using it.

I think a big part of the reason why people think water is instant death to electronics, is because they don't get them cleaned out fast enough. These things need IMMEDIATE attention. You can't let it sit a few days until the dealer has time to look at it.

As far as OBDII code reading, etc, I'm a big fan of the ScanGauge II.

http://www.scangauge.com/

It's a little more expensive than a basic code reader, but has more functionality. It not only reads codes, it can display realtime engine data. For example, if your engine is running rough, but no codes are thrown, you can look at some of the sensors. For example, if it's 100F outside, but the air temp sensor says it's -20F, that's probably your problem. I've used it for getting real coolant temps instead of relying on the gauge which is too slow. I could see that I was overheating before I actually got into the red (gauge shows normal until it's too late).

 

[geovalue]

Thanks for feedback

Thank you all for the useful and practical advice. I can now start figuring out what I need to know in order to become more self sufficient, a critical ingredient of unsupported expedition travel.
Will keep you posted and share some of my learnings
Hope to meet some of you at Overland Expo in April

Tom

 

[BIGdaddy]

one reason i like my XJ is that its a 1992, and has the OBDI system. All i have to do is cycle the key three times, leave it on, and then the car uses the check engine light as a morse code flasher of sorts.

1 flash....pause...7 flashes...= code 17 which equals "engine running too cold" my haynes manual has all the possible codes. (I subsequently swapped out a stuck thermostat and fixed that problem, which also fixed my heater issue}

I also echo having the simple but necessary spares on a long trip TPS, CPS, fusible links, Coil or coil packs, fuses, an short length of 12-14gauge wire with alligator clips on each end to jumper a sensor in a pinch, etc...

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I don't know why you think OBD1 is superior. Sure, you don't have to buy anything to read the codes, but the codes suck. You can get a basic OBD2 scanner for less than $50. That's a non-issue. Will your OBDI system tell you... "Cylinder 3 misfire" which might lead you to look at the #3 spark plug or plug wire? For example.

 

[Herbie]

Not on a Nissan, but I have found that the following "electronic" items can really let you down if they fail:

ECU
MAF or MAP sensor (depending on engine)
Throttle Position Sensor

I would have a spare of each of these if I were doing a serious trek in a place where on-demand replacements would be hard to come by.

 

[UK4X4]

I think in the US OBD2 is pretty standard

note Nissan also have their own computer diagnostic system..

I have a 2006 middle east patrol

standard OBD2 or scan gauge cannot comunicate with the vehicle diagnostics

only the Nissan system at 120 usd per check !

check you can read your vehicle

mafs usually only need cleaning...TPS as well

 

[Herbie]

mafs usually only need cleaning...TPS as well

It depends on the failure mode. The "hot wire" MAFs have been robust in my experience, but the "hot film" MAFs have had irreparable failures when they go down. Debris sucked into the MAF, for example can be catastrophic to the sensor. Granted you shouldn't be getting debris that far into the engine, but other things can go wrong and it would stink to field-service the rest of the engine only to have the ECU go into limp mode because the MAF is offline.

MAP sensors are near impossible to kill in my experience.

TPS' usually "fail slow", in that you can develop a dead band or soft spot but otherwise they'll work, but I have also seen a TPS where the wiper failed completely (mechanically) and the TPS went open-circuit which the ECU really didn't like.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I agree. In Ford-world, I found their hotwire MAF's to be very robust, and rarely hear about them failing. Only in gross over-oiling of K&N filters have I seen them fail.

The Bosch hot film MAF's, which are in a LOT of vehicles, fail completely very commonly. Mine failed in my Land Rover, it got pegged at the idle airflow reading. CEL light was on, but otherwise you would never have known anything was wrong. This MAF is used in BMW, Mercedes, VW, Land Rover, etc.

I haven't driven a vehicle with a failed TPS yet, but I have to think it would be drivable. What you would want to avoid is rapid throttle position changes.

If your TPS AND your MAF or MAP fail at the same time, chances are you're done. The engine needs one or the other to go into "limp mode", if both are gone, it has no load reference at all. You might be able to drive on just O2 feedback... probably a case-by-case basis. The good thing is, the TPS is small, and in many cases with the MAF, you only need to carry the small sensor insert, not the whole sensor tube.

 

[AmericaOverland]

I agree. I think a lot of the anti-new vehicle sentiment is due to people assuming that new vehicles will break down as often as older ones did, but with the added complexity of the electronics making it a nightmare. As I've said a few times and caught hell for, on my trail runs it's always the older trucks breaking down, never the new ones.

For me, it's not about that. All vehicles eventually have everything go wrong except in rare cases, whether it happens in 15 years or 50 years down the road. If I buy something, I want to keep it forever. That way, I know what's wrong with it, what is next on the parts replacement cycle list, and most importantly, I can control to a great degree the cost of fixing something because I will be able to do a lot of it myself. I'd rather replace something myself twice than have to pay up the wazu at a shop to fix something ONCE. At least the money is going to the parts shop and not to the car shop. Even an early-90s vehicle is very expensive to repair with the electronics - I can't imagine the cost to fix today's vehicles in about 15-20 years from now, when it's their turn to start breaking down just as often as the old trucks do today.

Stephanie

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Please explain to me in detail exactly how a modern vehicle is more expensive or complicated to fix yourself than an older vehicle?

My truck has 4 computers. So far, I have found 2 of them for sale locally for less than $100 total that I'll probably pick up just for a rainy day.

I've had a few electronic problems in my driving career. Recently, the CEL light was on in my Disco. I plugged in the scanner, it told me the MAF was bad, so I replaced it for $80. Done. A year ago, the CEL was on in my Focus, and the auto trans was not working well, stuck in 3rd gear. I plugged in the scanner, it told me the range selector switch was broken, so I replaced it, cost $50. Years and years ago, I had a VW Fox with a crazy analog fuel injection system. It was running horribly and I couldn't diagnose it myself because it was pre-OBD. I brought it to the dealer, they diagnosed it as a broken coolant temp sensor and replaced it for $80.