Help me decide - Go diesel or stay with gas burner

[duxndogs]

Hey guys...

I'm new around here. I've been reading and lurking for a while but this is one of my first posts. Awesome site!! :drool:

I have been admiring a lot of the other rides on here so I thought I would get some opinions on the whole diesel vs gas debate. I have been searching for a truck for the last 4-5 months or so. 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton crew cab 4x4's. I've driven 1/2 ton trucks most of my life (mostly GMC's) but have been considering diesel for various reasons. I tow some - not a lot but I do tow a utv (yamaha rhino and trailer) quite a bit during hunting season. For me, I'll probably tow my Rhino and trailer 5-6 months out of the year on and off for various reasons. I do travel 2-3 hrs to hunt and it's mostly highway driving. I've also got a pop up camper that I'll tow 5-6 timers a yr but that may increase as my boys get a little older. We love family camping so I hope we do it more and more. Again, probably 2-3 hrs to the mountains and mostly highway. May have to tow a tractor/bushhog from time to time as well.
Also, this truck will be my daily driver. My commute to work involves mostly highway driving and I do about 55 miles round trip. Luckily, my wife and I work for the same company so carpooling is something we do and will likely do more if I drop the $cash$ on a truck and our fuel expenses go up - which they will. I'm driving an old Honda Accord right now until I find a truck. So that being said and being honest and practical I probably don't need a 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 but I sure like them!!

Things I like about the diesel trucks - longevity (powertrain) as I plan to keep this truck, reliability, good resale value, better fuel mileage, towing power, looks, and the overall room I'll have. We have two kids now and maybe another down the rd? I usually have a good hunting dog riding around with me too. The nice bed space will give me more room for the dogs as well. I had pretty much written off buying a 3/4ton diesel 4x4 because I haven't been able to find one around here - one with low mileage, clean, affordable, etc. Well that all changed a few days ago. I found a 2007.5GMC Sierra 2500HD CC 4x4 LMM with the allison/duramax combo. It's a nice clean truck, low mileage (30k) and it's my color - white. :smiley_drive:

With the good always comes the bad right - the truck is a little expensive for me but I can probably swing it. Little noisy, but not bad, I was actually surprised at how quiet this truck is. It's BIG, more difficult to park, and could be a little cumbersome driving around town which I try to avoid if possible. The ride is a little stiffer being an HD. I'm testing this truck out...I drove it to work today and this thing rides like a Cadilac on the highway at 65-70 mph. Very comfortable and smooth ride but stop and go traffic, in out of parking lots, etc, not so fun.

So, help me decide. Buy a 3/4 ton diesel or stick with the 1/2 ton gasser? I think I want the truck but not sure it's the most practical choice. Tough decision. :snorkel:

Talk me into it or talk me out of it. It's probably a truck I can keep for a long time given the fact I probably only drive 15k miles a yr. No doubt, it's one bad rig!! :victory:

Future mods for whatever I end up with:
- mud tires
- camper shell
- cargo rack maybe
- aux. lights
- GPS
- satellite radio

Thanks guys!!

 

[nickw]

Hey guys...

I'm new around here. I've been reading and lurking for a while but this is one of my first posts. Awesome site!! :drool:

I have been admiring a lot of the other rides on here so I thought I would get some opinions on the whole diesel vs gas debate. I have been searching for a truck for the last 4-5 months or so. 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton crew cab 4x4's. I've driven 1/2 ton trucks most of my life (mostly GMC's) but have been considering diesel for various reasons. I tow some - not a lot but I do tow a utv (yamaha rhino and trailer) quite a bit during hunting season. For me, I'll probably tow my Rhino and trailer 5-6 months out of the year on and off for various reasons. I do travel 2-3 hrs to hunt and it's mostly highway driving. I've also got a pop up camper that I'll tow 5-6 timers a yr but that may increase as my boys get a little older. We love family camping so I hope we do it more and more. Again, probably 2-3 hrs to the mountains and mostly highway. May have to tow a tractor/bushhog from time to time as well.
Also, this truck will be my daily driver. My commute to work involves mostly highway driving and I do about 55 miles round trip. Luckily, my wife and I work for the same company so carpooling is something we do and will likely do more if I drop the $cash$ on a truck and our fuel expenses go up - which they will. I'm driving an old Honda Accord right now until I find a truck. So that being said and being honest and practical I probably don't need a 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 but I sure like them!!

Things I like about the diesel trucks - longevity (powertrain) as I plan to keep this truck, reliability, good resale value, better fuel mileage, towing power, looks, and the overall room I'll have. We have two kids now and maybe another down the rd? I usually have a good hunting dog riding around with me too. The nice bed space will give me more room for the dogs as well. I had pretty much written off buying a 3/4ton diesel 4x4 because I haven't been able to find one around here - one with low mileage, clean, affordable, etc. Well that all changed a few days ago. I found a 2007.5GMC Sierra 2500HD CC 4x4 LMM with the allison/duramax combo. It's a nice clean truck, low mileage (30k) and it's my color - white. :smiley_drive:

With the good always comes the bad right - the truck is a little expensive for me but I can probably swing it. Little noisy, but not bad, I was actually surprised at how quiet this truck is. It's BIG, more difficult to park, and could be a little cumbersome driving around town which I try to avoid if possible. The ride is a little stiffer being an HD. I'm testing this truck out...I drove it to work today and this thing rides like a Cadilac on the highway at 65-70 mph. Very comfortable and smooth ride but stop and go traffic, in out of parking lots, etc, not so fun.

So, help me decide. Buy a 3/4 ton diesel or stick with the 1/2 ton gasser? I think I want the truck but not sure it's the most practical choice. Tough decision. :snorkel:

Talk me into it or talk me out of it. It's probably a truck I can keep for a long time given the fact I probably only drive 15k miles a yr. No doubt, it's one bad rig!! :victory:

Future mods for whatever I end up with:
- mud tires
- camper shell
- cargo rack maybe
- aux. lights
- GPS
- satellite radio

Thanks guys!!

I think the reliability issues between gas and diesel is a moot point nowadays, you see alot of the current diesels with just as many problems as the gassers. Especially if your considering a chev, bulletproof gas drivetrain that has proven itself time and time again.

 

[TRACTION]

I'd say go diesel just for the longevity but given your miles per year that isn't as much of an issue. Your commute is definitely long enough though for a diesel motor to warm up and stretch out a bit though so you're good there.

For the long term, power adders for diesels are readily available and also can increase fuel mileage some. Keep them within reason though.

Mark

 

[Capt Sport]

Duxndogs,

For longevity you can't beat a well maintained diesel. There are lots of Duramax/Allison combinations running around with tons of miles so it's reliable if taken care of.

I have a 2005 2500HD Extended cab with the Duramax/Allison combo and love it. I get 21-22 MPG on road trips and 18-19 around town, as you've noted it's comfy as can be. I refer to it as driving around sit'n on the sofa, it's so comfy on long trips. Also, if you tow anything remotely heavy you can't beat a diesel. I tow a 24' car hauler with weights up to 8500lbs and it rolls along like it's not even there. It doesn't even drop out of overdrive on all but the steepest hills with that load.

My brother bought a 1/2 ton 1500 gasser the same time I bought my truck. He got 15-16 around town and a best of 18 on a road trip. It does ride just as nice as my truck though.

I put a camper shell on mine as you mention you want to do, and the reason I went with an extended cab was that I'm 6'1" and can't sleep in the bed of a CC. I have the back of my truck set up to sleep/live in. So if you want to camp out of your truck you should be aware that the bed is rather short on the CC. With the right platform you should easily be able to sleep yourself and the kids in the bed of the truck with an EC. Also, the backseat on the extended cab is really quite comfy as well.

If you get a shell I recommend you look at ARE camper shells, I have had one since new and it's proven to be very well made.

Also, if you put mud tires on your next truck be aware that that can be a slippery slope if you change tire size as well. If you put slightly larger tires it's not a big deal a simple programer will adjust for the tires. However, if you put considerably larger tires on your truck you'll need to do a gear change. And, with that the money adds up quick.

As for size, you'll get used to it. I drive mine around town all the time and it's no big deal, hell I whip it around like compact now. Also, I park in the back of the parking lots anyway (no door dings, and I like the walk) On only one occasion did I have trouble parking as there were only parking garages with not enough clearance.

Go for the diesel, you won't be sorry!

 

[BigJimCruising]

Just say NO to diesel. I'm 3 years into mine with less then 32,000 miles and already have to get the engine pulled. Why? Well of course it's leaking oil! Mileage hasn't come anywhere near what the old rigs used to get. And there is nothing worse then being miles into the back country and wanting to roll down the window to enjoy the country. Forget that, all you'll get is noise and fumes! And everyone you meet will scowl at you for those same reasons. And I'm not even starting on all the electronic controls that get screwed up everytime I take it in for service. I'm going back to gas!

 

[duxndogs]

Leaning towards buying this truck. :ylsmoke:

If I have a little self discipline and take care of it this truck could last me a loooooooooooooong time. :smiley_drive:

 

[brushogger]

I have a 1991 4x4 ext cab shortbed Chevy 1/2 ton that they will have to pry from my cold dead fingers. We have raised 3 kids and traveled everywhere in it. As far as longetivity is concerned, it has 250,000 miles on it and has had no problems other than a water pump, alternator, and starter. It is still reliable enough that I have no qualms about driving it 260 miles through the blizzard that is expected tomorrow to pick up my wife in Amarillo, Tx. The 350 5 speed combination has been bullet proof and still delivers 17-18 mpg on the road. The only upgrades I have done is a set of Bilstein shocks (very highly recommended) and a current set of 265/75r set of Hercules Terra Trac tires. I do almost all my own work on it as it is a very simple design. I also use mine to occasionally trailer a car or my tractor. If you do so make sure you use a trailer equipped with brakes as the half ton brakes aren't quite up to stopping you and the load safely without it. I also thought about going diesel, but the price of the periodic maintenance is a lot more expensive. More oil, more filters, etc. Then there is the issue if the wife runs the thing empty of fuel and I'm not there. With gas it's just a matter of having someone bring out a can of gas. With the diesel there is also the issue of that plus bleeding the fuel system of air. I know that shouldn't happen, but you know how it is when they try and stretch it. The HD trucks w/ diesels are hands down better if you are consistently towing large loads, but my vote is for the gas in the long run for the purposes you described. Before you decide, call a good tranny shop and get a price on replacing the allison transmission (yes they good but do go out) vs. replacing the trans in the 1/2 ton gasser. That's what helped me make up my mind to stick with what I had. Disclaimer: The above is just taken from my personal experience and is only my opinion. BTW I think the big diesel 4x4s are really cool rigs too.

 

[Rbertalotto]

I've owned dozens of pick-up trucks in the last 40 years. Everything from Fords and GMC to IH and Jeep..........Two years ago I bought a Dodge 2500 Cummins Diesel. To say I am out of my mind happy with this truck would be an understatement!

Power and Speed are the two most obvious reasons. This thing is just plain FAST! My last truck, a 2005 GMC gas with 5.7 V8 was a terrible tow truck. Even a little 10X16 motorcycle trailer with two bikes in it was a chore. Second gear at 5K RPMs and 40 mph up even mild hills out west and at 9 mpg.......

This Diesel pulls a 30', dual axle trailer with 11K gross weight like it wasn't there. I have to use cruise control to stay under 80 mph.

I towed it through the Allegheny mountains last summer and over the Adirondacks after that and the truck never slowed down or downshifted once. Amazing. And I got 17 mpg.......

I have a "Juice with Attitude" controller that will allow huge increases in power when you want to dust a 5.0 Mustang or two....:wings:

My truck has zero fumes and is extremely quiet on the inside......It sounds like a Diesel on the outside and that's a good thing!

I'm planning on getting at least 500-600K out of this truck. I bought it right at the height of the diesel fuel price hike so I stole it. When the transmission fails, I'll replace it with a "built" unit from the aftermarket and it should go many 100s of thousands of miles. (I already put the money aside for this as the automatic transmissions on ALL diesel trucks are a major weak link)

Currently I have 120K miles with the replacement of one ball joint.......Period!
I'm still on the first set of brakes, which are HUGE!

Everything about this truck is over built. The rear end looks like it came out of a 5 ton dump truck. the ball joints are huge. The front axles are like a military vehicle.........And it is one of very few trucks that you can still get a much superior solid front axle.

I'll NEVER go back to gas...........no way, no how. I can't believe all I've been missing.........

 

[KA5IVR]

Duxndogs,

For longevity you can't beat a well maintained diesel. There are lots of Duramax/Allison combinations running around with tons of miles so it's reliable if taken care of.

I have a 2005 2500HD Extended cab with the Duramax/Allison combo and love it. I get 21-22 MPG on road trips and 18-19 around town, as you've noted it's comfy as can be. I refer to it as driving around sit'n on the sofa, it's so comfy on long trips. Also, if you tow anything remotely heavy you can't beat a diesel. I tow a 24' car hauler with weights up to 8500lbs and it rolls along like it's not even there. It doesn't even drop out of overdrive on all but the steepest hills with that load.

Go for the diesel, you won't be sorry!

x2 with Capt Sport...

I found a 2007 GMC 2500hd Sierra Classic CC 4x4 with the LBZ, when Diesel was at it's peak price just over a year ago. It had 28k miles and leaking tranny cooling lines (common problem), but otherwise very clean. Pointed it out to the dealer during the test drive. Picked it up for about $25k and took it to the GMC dealer for the warranty work on the tranny cooling lines.

I also have a 1999 GMC Sierra Classic Z71 1/2-ton gasser with 193k miles. When I did the math with the MPG's, they cost about the same to drive at that time. Now that Diesel is back down to the same price as unleaded plus, the diesel is better. The Z71 is still in great shape, but the 2500hd is so much more comfortable to drive. Even my wife thinks prefers it over her Vette for road trips. Lots of room and great MPG's. I also tow a Car Hauler with a Jeep, which is over 7,000lbs, over different passes in CO and it does not slow down a bit. You can't beat the Allison Tranny for that!

I did lots of research and targeted the GM Duramax LBZ. I personally like the front end of the GMC better than the Chevy. Heard of lots of problems about FORD after the 7.3 and the Dodge was not as comfortable as the GM.

It has 44k miles on it now and has been trouble free so far, since it has been mine. I have no regrets about getting a Diesel. The comfort, room, and towing capability makes it worth the costs.

Good Luck!

 

[nickw]

Longevity

Are people really seeing an increase in durability/longevity in the current crop of diesel engines?

Maybe when towing big loads constantly, but for the average driver, I am not buying it. I think the current crop of gassers are just as, if not more, reliable than their diesel counterparts.

IMO, heavy duty/diesel/commercial does not necessarily equate to longevity or reliability, especially in 'standard' driving situations.

 

[milo12]

Personally I don't see the longevity etc as an important factor.

I have had lots of big v8 gas trucks and only in 2008 did I get my first diesel. All I can say is wow no way will I ever buy a gas truck again. The diesel is just awesome and has way better and more usable power than a gasser.

One big positive I didn't expect is the great off road mileage. I knew I would get good mileage on the highway but I never thought that would carry over to off road. On a recent 4 day trip through death valley area all the jeeps I was with had to carry jerry cans so they wouldn't run out. I used a quarter tank of fuel.:wings: man jeeps get crappy mileage.

Off road the diesel is basically idling everywhere. I see 15-18 mpg driving on dirt roads between 20-40 mph.

 

[Regcabguy]

I've owned dozens of pick-up trucks in the last 40 years. Everything from Fords and GMC to IH and Jeep..........Two years ago I bought a Dodge 2500 Cummins Diesel. To say I am out of my mind happy with this truck would be an understatement!

Power and Speed are the two most obvious reasons. This thing is just plain FAST! My last truck, a 2005 GMC gas with 5.7 V8 was a terrible tow truck. Even a little 10X16 motorcycle trailer with two bikes in it was a chore. Second gear at 5K RPMs and 40 mph up even mild hills out west and at 9 mpg.......

This Diesel pulls a 30', dual axle trailer with 11K gross weight like it wasn't there. I have to use cruise control to stay under 80 mph.

I towed it through the Allegheny mountains last summer and over the Adirondacks after that and the truck never slowed down or downshifted once. Amazing. And I got 17 mpg.......

I have a "Juice with Attitude" controller that will allow huge increases in power when you want to dust a 5.0 Mustang or two....:wings:

My truck has zero fumes and is extremely quiet on the inside......It sounds like a Diesel on the outside and that's a good thing!

I'm planning on getting at least 500-600K out of this truck. I bought it right at the height of the diesel fuel price hike so I stole it. When the transmission fails, I'll replace it with a "built" unit from the aftermarket and it should go many 100s of thousands of miles. (I already put the money aside for this as the automatic transmissions on ALL diesel trucks are a major weak link)

Currently I have 120K miles with the replacement of one ball joint.......Period!
I'm still on the first set of brakes, which are HUGE!

Everything about this truck is over built. The rear end looks like it came out of a 5 ton dump truck. the ball joints are huge. The front axles are like a military vehicle.........And it is one of very few trucks that you can still get a much superior solid front axle.

I'll NEVER go back to gas...........no way, no how. I can't believe all I've been missing.........

Ditto. I've never taken mine back to the dealer(don't intend to since the 3/36 has expired) Engine still has 18 months left on the warranty,but it's loafing with my poptop on it. Truck weighs 9,000# with two occupants and the camper. The inline six outweighs the International and the Duramax w/30% less moving parts. Brakes are killer and the fully boxed hydroformed frame is stiff. However,Chevy could teach Dodge a thing or two about making a comfortable seat. The frame is tucked up even with the body also for ground clearance. I've got the last of the 5.9's without egr,dpf or additional emission controls that the '07.5+ have. So far,so good. No IFS and no 6.0-6.4 V configurations.

 

[redthies]

While I currently drive an F350 4x4 with a big block gasser, I have also put "dibs" on my dads Cummins powered Dodge 4x4 when he decides to stop pulling the 5th wheel. It is an 05, same as one I sold a few years back. If I had more money at the time, I never would have sold my diesel.

 

[KLAKEBRONCO]

New crop diesels simply don't get much better mileage than a gas truck.
My 05 crew cab LLY Duramax got a one time max of 21mpg drafting a semi for a 150 miles or more. And that was on the stock 245 tires. With 285's mileage was down to a long highway trip mileage of about 17 and every day rural highway, very minimal town mileage of about 14.5

Gas trucks last as long as the Ford/GM offerings get similar mileage AND when the warranty is up, and you have a catastrophic failure (engine or tranny) the gas truck is a fix that is do-able. I got rid of my Duramax because I knew that if the engine/trans ever failed I would NEVER be able to afford fixing it. I'd be making a payment on a truck I couldn't drive.

Now, if faced with lots of towing the Diesel is the way to go. The Diesel's don't get much better MPG unloaded. Loaded however they are MUCH, MUCH better. I averaged the same 14.5-15 highway mileage on stock 245's towing a 6,000lb trailer.

If you are not doing alot of towing the only advantage to the diesels out there is the power. There isn't a gas truck around that compares to the power of the new Diesel rigs.


If I were buying another diesel, as much as I hate Dodge, I'd have to go with them. Though I haven't been following these trucks the past year or two, so I can't say for sure the new Cummins is trouble free like older models were.

 

[Capt Sport]

My 05 crew cab LLY Duramax got a one time max of 21mpg drafting a semi for a 150 miles or more.

How fast are you driving? My 05 EC averages 21 mpg on long trips all the time? I've tested it going from SoCal to NC and several trips from NC to MI and back. I run stock sized tires and run between 65/70 MPH. Hell my dad 04 gets up to 24 mpg on road trips. And, no I don't go by the computer I calculate it.

And as far as longevity is concerned I think you guys are crazy, I've never seen a gas V8 last much over 200k reliably. Especially if you tow any kind of load regularly. The engines are pretty loosened up after 200K. Granted GM had injector problems in the past but that issue has been addressed. Ford's variants after the 7.3 have sucked. And, the Cummins? Hey its a Cummins, their loud but they last dam near forever. Go look on the diesel boards and see what real people are getting for reliability. I think the perception of unreliability with diesels is that they are to easy to crank up, what with all the power programers available etc. And, people abuse their truck then ***** when they break. I know GM, Ford and Dodge had a ton of warranty problems from people who'd crank their trucks up and when they break claim "IDK what happened, it just broke". Yet they were either doing monster dyno runs, drag racing, truck pulls or something else stupid.

The worst ones are the ones you see jacked up to the sky, huge lifts and tires on em pulling oversized toy box trailers out to the desert. Even the state of California started crack'n down on the over weight trailers being pulled out there by pick-up trucks. Some of those guys regularly pulling 20K-25K trailers with 3/4 or 1 ton trucks that have max 5th wheel tow ratings around 16K. You can't lift a truck like that with huge oversized tires on it an expect it to pull at its factory tow rating even if you swap out the gears.

Given proper maintenance and used with in the design parameters you can expect a very very long life from you diesel pick up when compared to a gas truck.