TD5 or 300TDI into a NAS D2?

michaels

Explorer
Sorry. Should have been more clear. the Doug I was talking about was Doug Shipman is putting a TD5 into a Defender. He's in Portland, OR.

Doug (aka Roving Beetle) is a whole other "Doug." :)

lol. i was talking about roving beetle doug... whoops.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
If Doug (Roving Beetle) could get an Izuzu to work in a DII, I can't think of any reason a 300Tdi wouldn't work.
Given some of the areas you drive (water), I would think the more basic you go (300Tdi), the better.
 

Storz

Explorer
Diesel is addictive, our "other car" is an 05 Jetta TDI and the smooth torque, gas mileage and reliabilty are very attractive. Ours has been mildly tuned and makes over 200lbs/ft of torque at just 1800 rpm, it makes the little 5spd car a blast to drive around town, and it gets 45-50mpg on the highway.

Very interested to see how you go with your conversion, if the engine ever pops in my D2 I would love to do a swap.

Have you thought about a 200TDI? I rode in a D1 that was converted and it was quite strong, got great mileage and was a pretty straightforward swap from what I understand.
 
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bobtail4x4

Adventurer
you could buy a secondhand td5 engine and box, (I assume you want auto?)

as a complete kit over here for about £2000 to £4000 depending on condition,

and it will drop straight in,

a guy local to me has just fitted a 300 tdi in place of a V8 in his disco 2.

he had the engine and the block was porous on the V8,

btw the wifes td5 gets 30+ mpg and that on a hard driven chipped engine.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
IRC, Doug didn't have any trouble getting the ECUs to "talk" to one another with no engine to "read" unput from. i drove it and it didn't have any dash lights on or anything. it was a nice truck to drive too. however, it'd be better if you just got in contact with him rather than believing hearsay.

I'm going to get the truck home tonight, and will start by dropping the tranny pan to see what we can see. Maybe there's hope it's just a bit of dirt or something trapped in some control gizmo. But I don't hold out much hope. Who knows. But what I'm going to do next, is just unplug the engine computer completely, and see if the BCU will at least still work the door locks, windows, lights, etc. That will be telling.

If Doug (Roving Beetle) could get an Izuzu to work in a DII, I can't think of any reason a 300Tdi wouldn't work.
Given some of the areas you drive (water), I would think the more basic you go (300Tdi), the better.

Definitely a thought. I am not really afraid of the water and electronics. I think that's manageable. But, simple as a box of rocks is sometimes good. If I did a 300TDI, I'd probably take the opportunity when it's out to sound deaden the heck out of the firewall. That's one of the things I like about the D2 and want to keep, is the really nice highway drivability. It's really nice to drive. I've talked to too many Defender owners who really hate driving their trucks long distances. I'm not sure how raucus the 300 is. I might get to test drive a 300 in a Defender, give me some indication.

The impetus for this whole thing, is to get rid of the complicated hydro-mechanical-electrical auto trans, and the probably-gonna-leak-coolant V8. I've just seen too many cracked blocks, dropped liners, or leaking head gaskets, and I don't want to worry about it anymore.

From what I've read so far, the TD5 has proved to be perfectly fine for reliability. But I'm absolutely open to opinions to the contrary if somebody has them.

Have you thought about a 200TDI? I rode in a D1 that was converted and it was quite strong, got great mileage and was a pretty straightforward swap from what I understand.

Not sure why I would consider a 200 when a 300 is just a little more? And as far as I can tell, a little better in every way.

you could buy a secondhand td5 engine and box, (I assume you want auto?)

as a complete kit over here for about £2000 to £4000 depending on condition,

No, I don't want auto. I love auto for heavy off-roading, but I don't want it so many other reasons, chief of which is they're just not robust. At least not in my opinion. If I was going to put another auto box in the truck, might as well just put another V8 box in and leave the engine alone for now.

I'd love to have some help from guys on your side of the pond looking in to this. I have not yet found who/what/where to contact to investigate the "kit" option. It would be SO much easier than shipping a whole truck over. And I'm guessing you guys over there know exactly how to do it, and have done it before. (specifically, putting a TD5 into a V8 D20). I'm pretty much sold on the TD5, as long as I can figure out the logistics of it. That is, of course, barring any strong reasons not to, which I haven't seen yet.
 
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overlander

Expedition Leader
I looked in to this about 4 years ago. Jim Pendleton (goes by Pendy) in Kansas has been doing these TD5 conversions I believe. Look him on on Pirate4x4.com or Discoweb.org. Paul Schram (PTSchram) on both sites should be able to direct you to him as well.

Pendy did my conversion to the 2.8 TGV. He's top notch and NA resident expert. ECR (East Coast Rovers) is the premier NA restortion shop for Defenders, and they have done several TD5 conversions.

Also keep in mind that there is not a new kit out that allows the 2.8 TGV variable turbo to be added to a 300tdi, significantly improving performance and reducing turbo lag. There's a group buy discussion on it on D-90.com.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Also keep in mind that there is not a new kit out that allows the 2.8 TGV variable turbo to be added to a 300tdi, significantly improving performance and reducing turbo lag. There's a group buy discussion on it on D-90.com.

Oh yeah? Tell me more please.

I was wondering yesterday, how much improvement could be had simply by replacing the T25 on the 300 with a GT20 from the TD5. The GT series turbos are so much better than the old T-series, I can imagine it would to a lot by itself. I'm a little leary of the variable vane geometry turbos, as I used to have one on my car, and it failed.

A few of the questions I've got at this point:

What happens with the fuel tank? Does the whole tank get replaced, or just change the pump?

I'm assuming that adding a clutch pedal is as simple as obtaining the assembly, and there is probably provision under the dash already? Brake pedal would probably need to change as the auto trans has the wide one?

I believe new engine mounts welded the frame would need to be fabbed? Even with the TD5?

Center console, does it need to change for a 5 speed, or is it just the trim up top that changes (ie: range selector/indicator trim replaced with the leather boot from the 5 speed shifter?)

Land Rover Salvage (nearby to me, where the truck is currently) has an Autologic, if I go TD5, he could reprogram the BCU and SLABS to tell them it's now a diesel/manual, and I wouldn't need to source new computers for those? Just bin the trans controller, and the ECU(?) and replace with the TD5 ECU?

Chassis wiring harness. Is it the same, or does that need to be changed?
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Watch this space! :)

I need to sell a Seadoo that doesn't get used enough, to fund it. And need to clear up the legalities. But otherwise, I'm quite serious. I guess more to the point you made earlier... I am not satisfied with the probable reliability of the V8, and would like to re-power. An SBC (or maybe a Ford 302 or 351) would be great from a power and reliability perspective. And yes, a diesel conversion can't really be justified in pure economic terms. But considering the 300TDI or TD5 is a reliable engine, and costs the same or less than an SBC conversion, with the fuel economy benefits... makes sense. Guess you just have to choose, do you want 300hp and 15mpg, or 150hp and 25mpg. ;)

Talked with Land Rover Salvage, I think he could give me $1000 for the V8. Not sure if that's a good price? I might have thought they'd fetch more.
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
From what little I know about the platform and my own foibles - if I wanted to do a swap I'd likely follow the most bolt-in and "integrated" route possible. Sounds like TD5. I guess it is not like a soft top vehicle - no appreciable diesel smells most of the time. Ford Coyote engine might be interesting. ;)

$1000 for you so he can flip it at his normal retail? After all, he's not doing you any favours taking it off your hands. Anything similar for sale on the boards or kijiji or where ever?
 

overlander

Expedition Leader
Oh yeah? Tell me more please.

I was wondering yesterday, how much improvement could be had simply by replacing the T25 on the 300 with a GT20 from the TD5. The GT series turbos are so much better than the old T-series, I can imagine it would to a lot by itself. I'm a little leary of the variable vane geometry turbos, as I used to have one on my car, and it failed.

A few of the questions I've got at this point:

What happens with the fuel tank? Does the whole tank get replaced, or just change the pump?

I'm assuming that adding a clutch pedal is as simple as obtaining the assembly, and there is probably provision under the dash already? Brake pedal would probably need to change as the auto trans has the wide one?

I believe new engine mounts welded the frame would need to be fabbed? Even with the TD5?

Center console, does it need to change for a 5 speed, or is it just the trim up top that changes (ie: range selector/indicator trim replaced with the leather boot from the 5 speed shifter?)

Land Rover Salvage (nearby to me, where the truck is currently) has an Autologic, if I go TD5, he could reprogram the BCU and SLABS to tell them it's now a diesel/manual, and I wouldn't need to source new computers for those? Just bin the trans controller, and the ECU(?) and replace with the TD5 ECU?

Chassis wiring harness. Is it the same, or does that need to be changed?

Rob,
Here is the D-90.com thread on the 300tdi turbo upgrade. http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23179&highlight=group

300tdi uses a mechanical lift pump, so your intank electric pump would no longer be needed, but your line running through the pump would still be used.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Rob,
Here is the D-90.com thread on the 300tdi turbo upgrade. http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23179&highlight=group

300tdi uses a mechanical lift pump, so your intank electric pump would no longer be needed, but your line running through the pump would still be used.

Ok, so that explains why I've read that you just remove the intank pump and that's all there is to it. I think I've found that the TD5 requires an electric lift pump, and then an electric fuel sending pump in the gas tank.

Seems like a really good resource here:

http://www.web-rover.co.uk/nav.php?p=td5kb

I did a little legal digging at lunch. Went to an emissions test center to ask what happens if I show up for an emissions test in a gas vehicle, that is converted to diesel. He called his help line, and he said that they would simply test it as a diesel, but I would have to have my ownership converted to show diesel at the licensing office. But as far as they were concerned, no real issue. So I went to the licensing office, to ask what needs to be done to convert my vehicle from gas to diesel. She said "I just have to change the G to a D". "And you can just do that?" "Yeah." "Do I need some paperwork or something?" "No, I don't think so. But call this number."

Seemed way too easy at this point.

Called the 800 number, and the person I spoke with there, said there IS a form to be filled out, and the other lady should have known about it. But they didn't. I asked if she could tell me what the form was called, so I could search for it. I just want to see what's required. She couldn't tell me, and had no details. I'm supposed to go back licensing office, and ask them for the form, and if they don't know of it, call THEIR 800 number to ask for more info.

Now that's more like the beuraucracy I was expecting. :coffeedrink:

But, nobody has said 'No' yet so that's good.
 

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