AC improvement on RRC 1990

[burn_e]

Situation: RRC and hot environment (UAE - yesterdays temps 42C and 80% humidity) .

Have a question: How do you deal with the weak AC in the RRC? Did you make modifications on it?

- The system is converted to R134a and honestly it sucks. I ensured that everthing is in working order but the stock AC seems to have its limitations.
- Followed already the advice to close all gaps around the ducts so the the cold air cant escape into the dash.
- the windows are tinted all around and I have put an isolation layer between roof and headliner.

One of my ideas is to install bigger AC aux fans to increase the air flow through the condenser. this should bring some improvement while idling (traffic lights etc.)
But otherwise I am dealing even with the idea of a swap with a system of Toyota or Nissan to push the performance.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[JEFFSGTP]

One of the things I did on my old 96 Bonneville I had was insulated all the cold lines (metal ones) not sure on your vehicle but on my bonny it had metal lines for most of the cold side of the system. insulating these helped the cooling efficiency greatly. I used this:

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogD...=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=pipe+insulation&x=0&y=0

The self sealing glue comes apart from the heat of the engine bay so what I did was ordered wire loom to go around it and keep it sealed...it also added a factory appearance vs ugly foam rubber. P.S. you will know if you over insulate it...the system will freeze up and blow nothing but hot air...I had that happen when I decided to insulate the RFD (receiver/filter/dryer - Big metal canister looking thing) along with insulating all the lines...the RFD froze solid and it blew hot air...took the insulation off it and perfection.

Just my $0.02 may or may not help you, but at most if you try it your out alot less than just swapping the system out. It doesn't hurt to insulate the rubber cold lines either but I didn't as on my bonny there was less than 2ft of rubber line on the cold side and about 6+ft of metal line.

Also if you have to go around curves with the insulation I found scoring it/notching it worked better than trying to force it....it just bulges out and is no good...notching allows you to remove as much or as little as you need for a custom fit. Oh and I used small zip ties every foot or so to keep the black loom tightened down against the pipe insulation....the loom also acts as a fire retardant...still I would not insulate too close to manifolds/headers....everything else should be fine though.

Just noticed your in UAE....so lowes isn't going to help you alot, but it at least gives you an idea of what to look for and source locally.

 

[burn_e]

That sound like a good start. Easy and cheap.

Thanks for the warning on over doing it (normally I tend to follow the mythbusters anthem: If its worth doing - its worth overdoing :wings: )

I might work out a heat shield, though, for the dryer canister.

 

[FloridaFJ]

Wow ! 42C- now thats hot!!
This is the unortunate drawback of the conversions( as you already pointed out) I wonder about the actual performance of your system. Have you actually checked the system with manifold gauges? What sort of pressures are you getting on the high and low? What is the actual temp at the evaporator? Enough of flow at the condenser?
A standard set of manifold gauges can reveal a plethora of problems associated with faulty compressors, moisture issues, restrictions etc. I would check this first before moving into different set of modifications, certainly before swapping for an entirely new system.

good luck.

 

[burn_e]

Wow ! 42C- now thats hot!!
This is the unortunate drawback of the conversions( as you already pointed out) I wonder about the actual performance of your system. Have you actually checked the system with manifold gauges? What sort of pressures are you getting on the high and low? What is the actual temp at the evaporator? Enough of flow at the condenser?
A standard set of manifold gauges can reveal a plethora of problems associated with faulty compressors, moisture issues, restrictions etc. I would check this first before moving into different set of modifications, certainly before swapping for an entirely new system.

good luck.

Well, that a valid point. appearently the system works as it is supposed to do. One thing I have recognised is, that the AC works better (much better 5-7 degrees colder air at the ducts) when the car is driving. therefore one conclusion was more air through the condenser helps - bigger aux fans?

Will consult a real AC professional on this. Trouble is to find one. Most of the services here are done by semi to quarter professionals put in boilersuit with an "engineer" batch on it.
Really challenging to dig the good ones out.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

I know it is hard to grasp that in 1990 a range rover listed for $38,564.00 plus an available $3,000.00 in add on options, ... and it had horrible AC, ... but alas ... it is true. The English built the truck for the summers of England which were not overly hot. Unfortunately, when the NAS spec trucks were built, no consideration was given for the extreme temps of the US and other regions.

The AC was woefully lacking from the get go. Conversions to update the freon seemed (at least in my experience) to lessen an already lacking system.

I wish you luck trying to get it sussed out to cool in that kind of heat.

Something you may try to better the overall interior temp is using Dyna-mat on the floors/tranny tunnel and above headliner (better than any other thing you could use as an isolator). This will keep the heat from the engine and exhaust from raising the interior temp.

Hope that helps.
Dendy

 

[JEFFSGTP]

Well, that a valid point. appearently the system works as it is supposed to do. One thing I have recognised is, that the AC works better (much better 5-7 degrees colder air at the ducts) when the car is driving. therefore one conclusion was more air through the condenser helps - bigger aux fans?

Will consult a real AC professional on this. Trouble is to find one. Most of the services here are done by semi to quarter professionals put in boilersuit with an "engineer" batch on it.
Really challenging to dig the good ones out.

Not sure how much access to variety of R134A products you have but you might also consider, if what you have is standard 134A, switching to a synthetic based 134A compound. I know that helped my car in the Texas heat...then again Texas isn't the UAE...we just don't have that kind of heat...I remember 9-11 I was in Kuwait...It got to 148*F while I was there....Most Americans (military excluded) can't fathom that kind of heat...it truly is an entirely different ball game.

I think a combination of all the ideas here yours and ours etc is whats going to do it for you....If you do end up needing to upgrade parts I would start with upgrading just the condensor in the front as it would have the biggest effect on the system.

 

[evilfij]

Close the vent on the passenger (right hand) side. Seriously. Most of the airflow is on that side.

 

[burn_e]

Not sure how much access to variety of R134A products you have but you might also consider, if what you have is standard 134A, switching to a synthetic based 134A compound. I know that helped my car in the Texas heat...then again Texas isn't the UAE...we just don't have that kind of heat...I remember 9-11 I was in Kuwait...It got to 148*F while I was there....Most Americans (military excluded) can't fathom that kind of heat...it truly is an entirely different ball game.

I think a combination of all the ideas here yours and ours etc is whats going to do it for you....If you do end up needing to upgrade parts I would start with upgrading just the condensor in the front as it would have the biggest effect on the system.

Well, the temperatures in Kuwait are notorious in whole Gulf. The Kuwaities come over to UAE in summer, because for them temps in the 40ties/110F is just pleasent.

:26_16_2:

Well back to the topic: Will shop around for R134a alternatives. Lets see, will have to check with the companies who do ACs for buildings or ice trucks (professionals! lol )

 

[azarmadillo]

I had the same problem in my 1991 Range Rover Hunter when I bought it. It just didn't ever get cold and it could never cool the interior down completely. When the compressor finally failed and we had to take the system apart, RoverTechs, my mechanics here in Phoenix, Arizona, retrofitted part of my 1989's temperature controller into my 1991 to replace the digital non-adjustable unit. My Range Rover can sit all day in the hot Arizona sun now and when I get in and turn on the A/C it's cold and before I get home it's actually cold enough and I need to turn the fans down. And I have the R-134A conversion. It works great, I've never been in any other Range Rover Classic that has air conditioning as cold as mine.

 

[JEFFSGTP]

I had the same problem in my 1991 Range Rover Hunter when I bought it. It just didn't ever get cold and it could never cool the interior down completely. When the compressor finally failed and we had to take the system apart, RoverTechs, my mechanics here in Phoenix, Arizona, retrofitted part of my 1989's temperature controller into my 1991 to replace the digital non-adjustable unit. My Range Rover can sit all day in the hot Arizona sun now and when I get in and turn on the A/C it's cold and before I get home it's actually cold enough and I need to turn the fans down. And I have the R-134A conversion. It works great, I've never been in any other Range Rover Classic that has air conditioning as cold as mine.

Now thats something he might be able to have done as well...that intrigues me that the non-digital outperformed the digital.

 

[burn_e]

I am also very confused about this. trying to understand since yesterday and studing all lituratur on this...but no sensible result.

Maybe you can get more info from your workshop buddies!

 

[burn_e]

Time for an update:

First the radiator needed to be recored therefore some delay in the overall process.

On the garages recommendation went down to the an area with a lot of backyard wrenchers for the AC issues. Wanted to start by ensure the correct filling. Did some reading on it so could quickly find out which of the guys is worth his salt.

No fancy machines or computers - just a man, a gauge and a gas bottle on the parking lot of the mosque.

Verdict, the system was basiclly working on air...after the refill and plenty on insulation wrapping around the AC pipes I can savely say - ITS ALIVE !

Leaves me left with two questions:

Why was the system almost empty - is there a leak?
If the system was almost empty, why did the compressor kick in?

...both questions to be answered later when I bring the car to an AC professional for leak tests.

 

[JEFFSGTP]

Time for an update:

First the radiator needed to be recored therefore some delay in the overall process.

On the garages recommendation went down to the an area with a lot of backyard wrenchers for the AC issues. Wanted to start by ensure the correct filling. Did some reading on it so could quickly find out which of the guys is worth his salt.

No fancy machines or computers - just a man, a gauge and a gas bottle on the parking lot of the mosque.

Verdict, the system was basiclly working on air...after the refill and plenty on insulation wrapping around the AC pipes I can savely say - ITS ALIVE !

Leaves me left with two questions:

Why was the system almost empty - is there a leak?
If the system was almost empty, why did the compressor kick in?

...both questions to be answered later when I bring the car to an AC professional for leak tests.

Q1. Most Likely Yes, unless the system has not been serviced in years and years but was used on a semi-regular basis etc...I have seen a few systems with no discernable leak with tester guage or otherwise that were empty, put a vacuum on them the held it, recharged with proper amount of freon and oil... worked fine and held the freon, however that is typically NOT the case...it is usually a leak...I attribute those rare conditions to a ever so slight leak from an o-ring in the system drying out and allowing freon to seep out extremely slowly when the system has not been used for a short time...once it is used the oil in the system refreshes the o-ring and it seals up again until the next time it's not used for a while.

Q2. I have seen a system with the proper amount of air pressure actually trip the A/C compressor on its also rare...and in the high heat area you are in I could see it happening even easier as the extreme temps would drive internal pressures up more so than here...the A/C system doesn't know what is in it...it relies on pressure switches to tell it that its low or overcharged (high) on freon based on whether the high or low pressure switches are tripped...if a pressure build up of regular air happens it would trip it and kick on the comressor.

P.S....Glad to hear its working again