Next-Generation Defender

[Red90]

On wheel travel, the current LR3/4 and Range Rover have nearly 11 inches of front wheel travel and over 13 inches in the rear, stock, on fully independent suspensions. That is superb. Name some new 4x4's that can better those figures in stock trim. Ground clearance is 9.5 inches. Another good figure. (the Rubicon has 10 inches.)

Have you ever been off road with one??? They lift wheels on anything. Wheel travel numbers are deceptive. That does not mean that the truck uses that wheel travel, it just means it is there. Go articulate one and you will see what I mean.

Look, as I said, I wheel with them all the time. I know what they can and cannot do.

 

[TexasTJ]

Is it just me or has this been talked about for like the last 65 years or so? i.e. *Beat To *********!!!!! I have a 99 D1, I also have a 05 KJ, a 07 JK and just last fall sold my 98 TJ full body crawler to get the rover. There all good 4x4's. I just did 3000 miles on a climbing trip in the JK including some nice 4x4 roads in Colorado to get to some of the climbs. This is a thread about the new Defender not are Rover better than jeeps. Get to the point or save it for an off topic thread. Remember the real Enemy lies in the Pacific. Toyota! J/K

Nate
Proud to Driver a Jeep and Rover! :victory:

 

[David Harris]

Remember the real Enemy lies in the Pacific. Toyota!

Nate
Proud to Driver a Jeep and Rover! :victory:

:ar15::ar15:

I know . . . The thread got here though, because of a discussion over the target market for the Defender in comparison with the Jeep, which has a lower price point and different customer base. My original point was that the Defender is really a commercial vehicle for use working in off-road conditions day in and day out, whereas the current Jeep is built more as a recreational 4x4, so the comparison is not a direct one. This is underscored by the fact that the Defender can still be found serving in the world's militaries in largely stock form, whereas Jeep hasn't been used in that way for quite some time. (And before we get a bunch of posts on the J8, it has a completely different drivetrain, suspension, frame and even Jeep itself admits that this is not a front-line vehicle. Built in Egypt for overseas sale/use.) In that way, you are right, the Toyota Land Cruiser, and perhaps to a lesser extent the truck, has always been the direct competitor for the Series/Defender because it is built for the same market and use.

 

[Viggen]

Yes, back on topic.... A new stock Rubicon is on a similar footing to a new stock Defender with regard to off road capabilities. Each has their pluses and minus. Overall it is a wash.

The POINT is that Land Rover needs to maintain or improve on that level of off road capability WHILE modernizing the vehicle so that Joe Average wants to buy it. At the same time get rid of the 1950s build techniques so that the price can come down to be inline with a Rubicon and offer proper off road options like lockers.

It really is not that complicated and is certainly attainable.

I dont think that tech is that bad. Bottom line is that they are creating vehicles that will only see gravel or the occasional field and for that, active electronics, etc... are just fine and can do the job. Articulation isnt everything. There are numerous vehicles out there that have laughable articulation but are extremely good off road. Will they climb over large rocks? Nope. Will they go over everything else? Yes, they will. Throw a locker in the rear and possibly the front and your good.

Lets face it, the Camel Trophy was amazing and a great display of what a LR can do. The population who cares about that has dropped significantly so the odds of something like that making a come back are slim to none. Take a beauty photo of an SUV on a couple of small rocks, photoshop a mountain in the background and youll have a hot seller.

 

[AxeAngel]

The POINT is that Land Rover needs to maintain or improve on that level of off road capability WHILE modernizing the vehicle so that Joe Average wants to buy it.

Only way to make it easy for Joe average is electronic gizmos. Joe average wants a dial where he selects mud/gravel/snow and thinks he is invincible.

I dated a girl in grad school who loved my rover she bought a LR3 and often told me how she had this knob that made her truck do anything mine could without me having to get out of the car and put chains on, or disconnect the swaybars or yadda yadda.

That's the problem right there. Engaging CDL, engaging rear locker, airing down, etc. Is too laborious for Joe average. He wants to set it and forget it.

Remove the idiotproof safeguards and any 4wd truck would be breaking down left and right. It's only a matter of time before someone decides to drive down dry pavement with CDL locked

-Sam

 

[Red90]

The dials are cute, but it does not make low profile tires get through mud or sand or deep snow. I've spent enough time towing LR3s and new RRs through things I idle through to understand the limits.

The Rubicon is the proof. No fancy dials. Not expensive. Joe Average DOES buy it by the bucket loads. They just need to know it could be good off road.

You Americans need to remove your minds from what YOU see as Land Rover and get into the minds of what people in back woods Africa see as a Land Rover. They need to bring THAT vehicle back while making it nice to drive on the road and have the normal amenities that are expected in a modern car.

 

[AxeAngel]

.

You Americans need to remove your minds from what YOU see as Land Rover and get into the minds of what people in back woods Africa see as a Land Rover. They need to bring THAT vehicle back while making it nice to drive on the road and have the normal amenities that are expected in a modern car.

I agree with you. I also lived in Africa and therein lies the rub. In Africa as in other parts of the world ex-USA. People use land rovers to get to backwoods locations. They also take the easiest road and are smart about the challenges they encounter.

Joe average seeks out boulders to climb because he was told his truck could do it. He triesnto challenge his truck till the breaking point so he can brag to his passengers. I venture to guess that those land rovers in Africa aren't nearly as abused as some of the ones that are around here. Because the drivers there are more interested in getting to the destination safely as opposed to rock crawling over a huge boulder

-Sam

 

[David Harris]

I agree with you. I also lived in Africa and therein lies the rub. In Africa as in other parts of the world ex-USA. People use land rovers to get to backwoods locations. They also take the easiest road and are smart about the challenges they encounter.

Joe average seeks out boulders to climb because he was told his truck could do it. He triesnto challenge his truck till the breaking point so he can brag to his passengers. I venture to guess that those land rovers in Africa aren't nearly as abused as some of the ones that are around here. Because the drivers there are more interested in getting to the destination safely as opposed to rock crawling over a huge boulder

-Sam

I think this post just about sums up what we at Expedition Portal are all about, using a vehicle to journey to interesting wilderness locations, unsupported and using the actual 4x4 to get there, not towing it there behind a truck, unloading it, beating the crap out of it, loading it's broken carcass back on the trailer, returning home, fixing the broken parts and then doing it all over again next month. When I was a Jeeper, all of my friends towed their Jeeps to the 4x4 spot because they we're too nervous to drive them there on the road. I did the same thing with my old CJ5, because it just wasn't any fun, nor completely safe to drive it there. I also couldn't haul any people or equipment to speak of with me, so I had to have a bigger support vehicle along as well. I discovered a Disco 1 on Craigslist, bought it and never looked back. It could go stock everywhere my highly-modded CJ5 could go in much greater comfort and with more than enough room to carry my kids and friends with me. It drives nicely on the road getting there as well. It just seemed a hell of a lot smarter to me given my off-road needs. My friends, on the other hand, never could accept my choice or reasoning, and all of them drifted away after I started driving that LR. They called the Disco a safari vehicle, not a real 4x4. That's the difference in mentality you are describing in your post and that's the difference in mentality between Expedition Portal and some of the other forums out there. That's why I feel at home here . . .

 

[Douglas S.]

I would be interested to know how "highly modded" your CJ5 was if a stock Disco could do everything it could.

 

[David Harris]

I would be interested to know how "highly modded" your CJ5 was if a stock Disco could do everything it could.

1976 Jeep CJ5, SOA, stretched wheelbase 10 inches, J-truck rear springs, Scout Dana 44 axles, spool rear, Detroit Locker front, Yukon chromoly shafts, 4.88 gears, TF727 auto, Dana 300 transfer case, full high steer conversion with hydraulic assist, 35 inch Goodyear MT/R's. AMC 304 motor, and a lot of other small stuff. Here are some pics.

 

[Antichrist]

I don't understand the complaints about the price difference, the base Defender is only $10k more than a base Wrangler, but the D90 comes with a Diesel, an option jeep was charging $4k for. So comparing apples to apples the D90 is only about $5-$6k more than a Wrangler. Not all that much.

Personally I'd much rather have a Defender targeted to use in Africa than one targeted to rock crawlers in the US. I'd rather do any mods to suit me, not what some marketing guy decided I wanted.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

i agree with you. I also lived in africa and therein lies the rub. In africa as in other parts of the world ex-usa. People use land rovers to get to backwoods locations. They also take the easiest road and are smart about the challenges they encounter.

Joe average seeks out boulders to climb because he was told his truck could do it. He triesnto challenge his truck till the breaking point so he can brag to his passengers. I venture to guess that those land rovers in africa aren't nearly as abused as some of the ones that are around here. Because the drivers there are more interested in getting to the destination safely as opposed to rock crawling over a huge boulder

-sam

+1

 

[I Leak Oil]

You can keep your knobs and computers, I'll keep my noisy, rough riding, sometimes leaking but always running series truck....:snorkel:

 

[mongosd2]

i don't understand the complaints about the price difference, the base defender is only $10k more than a base wrangler, but the d90 comes with a diesel, an option jeep was charging $4k for. So comparing apples to apples the d90 is only about $5-$6k more than a wrangler. Not all that much.

Personally i'd much rather have a defender targeted to use in africa than one targeted to rock crawlers in the us. I'd rather do any mods to suit me, not what some marketing guy decided i wanted.

x2...

 

[crusader]

If I may, I'm just gonna sum up where the new Defender is headed:

As the owners of the Land Rover marquee (whoever that is at the moment) are a business, they will go wherever the money is. If the market wants to spend gobs of cash on unibody, independent suspension, 20 inch rim with low profile tire Defenders, the world will get unibody, independent suspension 20 inch rim with low profile tire Defenders from Land Rover.

If the market demands something else and is willing to pay for it, that's where Land Rover is headed. Simply business, that's all.

I'm not really sure anyone at _____fill_in_the_blank_____corporation, who currently owns the Land Rover Brand, gives a stuff about producing 150,000 units for a select market that really desire a world-class industrial/agricultural vehicle.