Are windows in an expedition rig over-rated?

[Accrete]

I'm in the initial stages of designing a camper that will be used primarily in the soggy pacific north west. I've spent nearly 20 years camping in various rigs from tents, campers, pop-ups, to hard sided trailers. In nearly every situation the windows became nearly useless for ventelation during a typical rainy day due in part to being the common slide style rv window, AND they become a drippy mess each morning and night with condensation. I've taken a close look at the newer acrylic dometic windows but see two issues that are hidrances; 1) most i've seen in use have scratches, 2) owners report wind damage.

So i'm looking at other options such as the Hehr line with vents/screens and insulated glass.

BUT, and here is why i named this thread what i did...

Are windows really needed?
I understand the back to nature concept, looking out a simple pane of glass to a beautiful lake/river etc... BUT with all the easy technology today i'm waiting for somebody to dream up a rig that has four security cameras mounted NSEW plugged into a nice 27" monitor on their laptop and calling it a "Window" to the outside world. Sure would take care of leaks, break-ins, etc.

If one can take care of proper/comfortable ventelation i don't see why such an electronic solution wouldn't have some nice benefits.

now if i can only talk my wife into the idea!

comments are welcome : )

 

[bunduguy]

"widows"

Personally I'd rather not have any "widows" in my camper!
Sorry could not resist.
Good point and rather interesting to see what everyone thinks.

 

[Accrete]

Personally I'd rather not have any "widows" in my camper! . .
Good point and rather interesting to see what everyone thinks.

I'm with you 100% ! and yes i'm curious to read what other's might think.

As i hinted in my post, i believe the biggest hurdle would be selling my wife on the idea.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

If one can take care of proper/comfortable ventelation i don't see why such an electronic solution wouldn't have some nice benefits.

without windows would be very uncomfortable for me.

The idea of going out to the country to stare at a monitor, of what you drove all the way out there for is forgetting the entire point of being out there.

That's just how I would think about it laying in a dark box w/ no way to see out of it.

 

[robert]

I like the jalousie windows on my VW but yeah, the sliders on most campers are kinda worthless when it rains. Oh, and the less electronics the better (disclaimer: I'm guilty of carrying a laptop sometimes to write on).

 

[RU55ELL]

If you lived in the south, you wouldn't be asking this question. :costumed-smiley-007

 

[rezdiver]

I would say at least one window enough to crawl through, think fire hazard, and cant get the door open to ventilate or get out.

 

[Accrete]

RU55ELL i agree with you from what i've heard from my two kids in the USAirForce who've spent time in the south. sticky, hot ,( Up here it's just the opposite. I think our warmest day wheeling/camping was _maybe_ 78 or so that i recall. take the gold pans down to the river and its easy to cool off : )

rezdiver, yes on the escape route! I plan on a hatch/vent over the sleeping area, and a nice jalousie picture window near the seating that will have an egress frame just to be safe (i'm toying with a rear-wall for this since we back up to the river/lake most often).

 

[greentruck]

When your expedition vehicle is a FZJ80, you got windows

Most RV windows are crappy for anything other than fair weather use. Leaky, weak, subjected to forces it seems were never taken into account. Invest in good windows and it will make a lot of difference.

Yeah, I agree on at least a second way out, too.

If you're OK with a vent or whatever overhead, consider a proper skylight. Theoretically, it could be an escape hatch (they are on buses), but probably only as a third way out. But the light that it gives you is great, provided it's good quality and installed properly.

One of our local big-box stores just got a makeover. They cut skylights (~2' wide and 20' long) into the roof. They installed new lighting, too, but the real bonus was that they now turn off two-thirds of the lighting strips whenever there's adequate natural light coming into the store from the skylights. Works great and I'll bet it saves a bundle on the electric bill.

Moral of the Story: Expeditioners need to save energy, too, and getting decent natural lighting should be a part of that. Once you've got that, then more windows are optional in my book. YMMV

 

[Accrete]

...If you're OK with a vent or whatever overhead, consider a proper skylight. . .the light that it gives you is great, provided it's good quality and installed properly.

thanx for the informative reply. I've eyed the dometic skylights with integrated shades/screens and should research how to acquire one for the rig. my wife dosen't like light in the morning hours before she's ready to rise N shine (usually an hour after me) so i'll need some way to stop any light from coming through windows/skylights before the new day.

any builders have leads on skylight sources like the dometic? i've been unable to find an actual reseller so far.

 

[mhiscox]

My Sprinter camper is a Full Fenstration example, with holes virtually all of the way around the perimeter, plus a vent and a big hatch in the roof and about 20 square feet of screening across the back doors. This means that I lost a whole lot of potential storage space, and for that I am sad. But the tradeoff has proven more than worth it, especially in the Pacific Northwest where the light getting in makes winter camping tolerable. Indeed, all the holes make it much nicer in any scenic spot, where the combination of view, ventilation and natural sounds make it very pleasant.

That said, I know that I profit from having Seitz awning windows which are double paned (meaning they really cut heat transfer and noise intrusion) and which open fully, giving you "frameless" views . . . you're not looking through a bunch of metal framing and screening. Also, awning windows like this are the only style that, if you cut a five-square-foot hole in the cabin, you get the full five square feet of view and ventilation. I'd probably be much less bullish if I'd used regular RV windows.

I have had no security problems, though that could easily happen; the Sprinter is tall enough to discourage easy entry, but it's not like, say, the Mog camper I owned that had its windows nine feet up so no one could see anything or easily break in. It is, however, easy enough to close the shades on the Sprinter so no one knows what's inside.

 

[ntsqd]

Why not do something like what Rob Gray has done on Wothehellizat I & II? He doesn't have actual glass in his openings, but there is no reason why yours couldn't. Then you've got no windows when you want don't want them, and windows when you do want them. The single piece 'shutters' can double as awnings and be made in a way that works as insulation when closed. I would look into using automotive glazing methods with either flat glass or acrylic sheets. Could even build your own double paned windows using these glazing methods. Glass would be much more scratch resistant, but acrylic can be cut and shaped with wood working tools.

As to the skylights idea, I like it! I wonder if the so-called "Solatube"s have an application here?

 

[ColinTheCop]

I like what Stephen Stewart has done on his MAN, rather than a large opening window, he was a large panel which opens.... I agree with the above bit that says after driving somewhere nice, you want to admire the view.

 

[Accrete]

Thank you for continuing to send your ideas!

Mike; i've followed your projects. Very nice build, and we're practicaly neighbors so i know you feel-my-pain when it comes to soggy camping! I'm thinking a nice picture window 2x4 ?? could easily cost in the neighborhood of 1k? Not a big deal, but you sure have to work it in the overal plan!

Basinranger. LOL. i've been called worse ; ) I have note books of crazy ideas i've shared with my wife over the last ~30 years. Now and again she'll eye something on the cover of PopSci or PopMech and say; "Hey, didn't i see that in your note book?". Good thing i didn't teach my kids to build a hovercraft out of their mama's shop vac like dear ol' dad did.

ColinTheCop, thx for showing the pix on the opening. I first saw the idea i believe on a bMobile tray camper? That would be interesting for sure as ntsqd hinted to also.

Cheers & thx again.

 

[Victorian]

I kind of like not having windows in our camper van! No, I don't live in a very hot climate, I'm mostly camping in the rain forest on Vancouver Island.
The reason I didn't install any windows are the following:
1. I like stealth camping (even in residential areas if I have have to without creating too much attention)
2. Security. I don't like to show what I have....
3. Darkness. At night, I find it quiet frustrating when you get waken up from lights.
4. Privacy! Even with curtains closed, you sometimes still can see inside when lights are on at night. Don't really like that :Wow1:

Ventilation:
So far it hasn't been an issue. I usually leave the front windows about 3-4" open at night and even with two people and on a rainy day/night I haven't managed to "fog" up the inside. I'm sure it would be a different story if I would be boiling some coffee water inside.

Anyhow, just to get a bit more light in the back, I'm thinking of getting a sunroof installed.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrOqtxQ1bPc"]YouTube - VW T4 Eurovan Camper conversion[/ame]