Autoblog drives diesel Wranger, Grand Cherokee
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
I agree that this is a complete joke. But so is our governments spending and debt. Just think of all of the lost revenue in fuel taxes they would lose. You would then be taxed on how many miles you drive to compensate for the decreased revenue. I agree that all of this is out of control and doesn't make any sense. But common sense and government is the same as oil and water, it just doesn't mix together well.
SSF556
SE Expedition Society
I think it will be a closer to 5 years...the only 2 that will take longer will be China and India....that may be 10 years
alosix
Expedition Leader
I think that's what bugs me the most about them (carb).. they really seem to want to use their clout to push things one way or another. Not just put down requirements and let us meet them however we get there.
Granted, there's no way in hell the grid in CA could handle a significan number of people commuting by plug in vehicles.
thetonka
Observer
Exactly.
I'm huge fan of EVs and would love to have one as a commuter offset by solar panels on my house. The problem is the infrastructure, including the grid. If the government would stop subsidizing bad ideas like ethanol they could support good ideas like EVs. Unfortunately as you point out they can't see past a myopic view of the future. One size does not fit all and to succeed in the future we will have to take advantage of many solutions. Small diesels must be on that list. Right now the only alternative solution that could be mainstream without massive changes to infrastructure and vehicles is biodiesel. The only way that will succeed is if the EPA and CARB give up their irrational baseless hatred of diesels.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Biodiesel doesn't like to work in 2007+ USA diesels with particulate filters.
I LOVE biodiesel, but its time has come and past for modern diesels as long as the EPA has anything to say abut it. There is some synthetic diesel technology that can work ( Fisher-Tropsch ), but the quantities of motor fuels we consume are still astronomical.
EV technology is interesting, but building the batteries is a challenge resource wise. Also, our current electrical grid is about maxed out.
I LOVE biodiesel, but its time has come and past for modern diesels as long as the EPA has anything to say abut it. There is some synthetic diesel technology that can work ( Fisher-Tropsch ), but the quantities of motor fuels we consume are still astronomical.
EV technology is interesting, but building the batteries is a challenge resource wise. Also, our current electrical grid is about maxed out.
FreeManDan
Adventurer
What a painful read...the thread and the article. Maybe I'll print it out and mail it off to abunch of elected officials and the chrysler corporation along with a bunch of gas receipts...
As a CA resident, I have mixed feelings about CARB.
Since the 1970s, they have accomplished something noteworthy. Namely, air quality is massively improved. How much of that change is due to their work versus broader auto-industry improvements in technology I'll never know. But their work was a factor.
That said, they are a bureaucracy with the usual inefficiencies and agendas that don't necessarily jive with economic reason.
In this case, however, I don't see CARB as a key player. There are several auto producers that have found a way to deliver diesel vehicles that meet CARB emission standards. All the big truck makers, VW and BMW. It can be done with existing technology, so I don't see CARB as the key barrier. Jeep is making a simple business decision not to offer diesels in the US market and they could change their mind if they wanted to.
R
Since the 1970s, they have accomplished something noteworthy. Namely, air quality is massively improved. How much of that change is due to their work versus broader auto-industry improvements in technology I'll never know. But their work was a factor.
That said, they are a bureaucracy with the usual inefficiencies and agendas that don't necessarily jive with economic reason.
In this case, however, I don't see CARB as a key player. There are several auto producers that have found a way to deliver diesel vehicles that meet CARB emission standards. All the big truck makers, VW and BMW. It can be done with existing technology, so I don't see CARB as the key barrier. Jeep is making a simple business decision not to offer diesels in the US market and they could change their mind if they wanted to.
R
No one is keeping anyone from putting solar panels on their house. However, once you realize that the things only put out 2 or 4 amps per panel under perfect conditions (pointed directly at sun, no cloud cover, no dust, dirt, or leaves on your roof), you realize the futility of this dream at least under current technology.
thetonka
Observer
Thinking in terms of how much current each panel puts out is missing a lot of the equation Solar makes a lot of sense here in SoCal. I have quite a few friends that have arrays and save a lot of money.
I'm just not staying in the house I have long enough to justify the cost and fight with my stupid HOA.
Bill Beers
Explorer
^This.
I think Jeep's beancounters have determined that the ROI on offering USDM diesel vehicles isn't there. Ze Germans, (BMW, Daimler, & VAG,) must have some different criteria they use to determine that Americans will buy small diesels.
alosix
Expedition Leader
FWIW (and this will sound odd against my golf cart rant). I've really been looking into some sort of electric commuter vehicle for when I don't feel like riding my bike to work (like today).
I really like the Zero Motor cycles. From an EV standpoint they are kind of a golf cart to charge. Now, when looking at this light moto to stick on the back of my truck I though.. Oh wait.. I'll just charge it from the 160-200watt solar array on the roof. No dice, just not enough power to do that even sitting in the middle of death valley on a clear day.
Now.. with about 4 8D batteries and a decent inverter with a fairly large array on a house, you should be able to save enough juice during the day to charge a moto or golf cart, but we're still not there yet for charging something like a telsa or a Leaf (man that's a painfully ugly vehicle)..
CARB currently really has a thing against particulate matter. Diesels still make some = diesels seem evil no matter what they do. I'd fully expect tighter regs than current in the future (They did just start doing the smoke tests on diesels in the last year @ smog stations). Some would say.. well that's just CA, it won't affect other states.. but 1.) They influence the EPA pretty bad, and 2.) There are several states that nearly use the CARB rules verbatim.
I do see how the air sits in these valleys on warm days though. It just doesn't move like it does in a lot of places. I have a bit more appreciation for CARB than I did before moving out here.. But still they need a little work.
alosix
Expedition Leader
But where is this investment going that they'd need return on. They have vehicles that should be at least 49 state legal with very little work other than sending a few down for testing.
They are already made in the states. Its not like we'd need a distribution framework from Chrysler from an overseas plant with the requisite tax dodging (Ford Transit Connect anyone?)..
I mean.. compare this with the LJ model that only sold for 2-3 years. Probably needed a fresh crash testing + emissions as well, and it only sold for a few years.
Bill Beers
Explorer
I imagine it is going into the pockets of shareholders!