FZJ/FJ 80 Help please?

[adi]

I recently hit 200k on my 93 LC.

PHH was done earlier this year. It had the factory hose clamps on it, and was bulging, but no leaks. I figured since it lasted 17 years and 200k the first time, I won't have to worry about the PHH for another 17 years and 200k.

I am also on the factory head gasket. I was very tempted to replace it and get it over with, but with everything else I'm finding working great on a 17 year old vehicle, I'm going to either do it at 250k or when it starts to go out.

It's been driven in 115 degree desert heat, and -20f winters and always fired up within 1/2 second of cranking.

 

[upcruiser]

My '92 FJ80 runs stock gears and 33's. I have spent alot of time in Colorado, Utah and the western US in it. Honestly, the difference going from the 31's to 33's was negligible. Hltopper and I drove Black Bear Pass back in like 2002 or 2003, I forget which year... We had similary equipped FJ80s, mine with 33x12.50 BFG MTR's and his with 31x10.50 BFG MTR's. We were similarly loaded and there wasn't any difference between the two trucks climbing up Red Mountain Pass. They were identically slow. I think the biggest draw back with my 33's is more the tire width on the highway. I think that really kills me in the economy. My next move is going to be to a 33x10.50 and I think it will be about perfect. Now, I am a pretty patient driver and tend not to drive over 65mph tops anyway with my loaded truck, so I am perfectly content with it in the mountains. My only fustrations tend to be I70 out of Denver as I have to hold it in gear and can only manage 45mph which is borderline dangerous it seems. On two lane mountain roads it isn't a big deal but there it is terrifying. It is a great truck, thus I have had mine for over 10 years now, but you can't be in a hurry. Compared to a 4.0 Cherokee it is going to feel like a total slug. Youtube search FJ80 and you will find an old Motor World review of the FJ80. Its pretty entertaining to hear the performance specs. Go into it with those numbers in mind, if you are cool with that stuff, you will probably be fine. Nowadays, there are so many parts out there, you can source complete FZJ axles with lockers and swap them in pretty easily if you feel the need for the rear full floater axle and lockers, the bigger brakes are a plus from the deal too. For me, the FJ80 is the best combination of old school, and modern Land Cruiser with the best price out there in Cruiserdom. The test drive will immediatly tell you though if you can handle the snail pace or not. ha ha

 

[Topgun514]

thanks upcruiser- you've been a huge help (plus I quite enjoy your trip reports)

Many think the 4.0 is a fast engine but my pace is typically slow, and it easily bogs on highway speeds as well. With about 1000 lbs on it when I moved from SLC to Park City for the summer, I struggled 2nd gear, 20 mph on Parleys. And going up big and little cottonwood I find my tranny overheats. The torque is great at low speeds, but 4th gear on the highway is my go to if the conditions are not perfect and I have only added 31's, and about 250 lbs of bumpers and racks.

 

[Topgun514]

Another question, if I got an 80, can you take out the entire airconditioning unit and pulley. That would free up some HP and take out some weight, plus I really hate AC for the most part. And who drives in the summer of Utah unless its to the mountains!

 

[yohavos]

The 1FZ takes 3 belts, one of which is for the air conditioner. The other two are basically redundant and run the important stuff, giving you a lot better chance of driving home if you shred a belt.

Not super clear on the 3FE, but I don't see the removal of the AC pulley and belt on either of them boosting your HP much. I'm not a mechanic or an engineer, so I might be dead wrong. You can do a good tune up, adjust kick down cables and advance your timing for little gains.

What I can tell you is that as a non-mechanic, owning an 80 series is the best decision I've ever made. I just changed my original starter out (277k) on the side of the road in front of my place with the small bag of tools I keep in the cruiser. My head gasket was original at 272k when I had it replaced as a preventative measure in preparation for a month on the road.

I had a 92 and now a locked 97. I prefer the 95-97 80's for OBD2, the 2nd/PWR functions on the transmission (nice in 4L/Highway driving, respectively), and the power of the 1FZ. Mine pulls great on the highway with stock gears and 33's. The 92 had 32's on it and was a pig, and though people will argue this exhaustively, I definitely noticed the lack of power offroad in certain situations (especially snow when I needed some power at the wheels) compared to my 97. In terms of other areas where traction wasn't as much of an issue, the 92 was a beast.

As an added benefit, ih8mud.com is an amazing resource, and the 80 Series tech section has some incredibly Land Cruiser smart folks. With that being said, the OCD and attention to detail can run rampant sometimes, which is why you're worried about the dreaded HG in the first place. I'm willing to bet the HG failure rate is much lower than most other vehicles, and is probably only affects a small percentage of 80 series Land Cruisers when compared to the entire population. I see 80's all over the roads up here driven as DD's by people that have absolutely no idea they have lockers and haven't the slightest interest in anything like ih8mud or ExPo. Their HG's are fine, and they will never lose a second of sleep thinking about their birfields or the whether or not their truck has Toyota Red coolant or not. These trucks are so damned durable, it's ridiculous. They run all over the world in horrible conditions without modified fan clutch's, regular front end services, or even the greatest of gas at times.

On top of all that, locally, Cruiserheads are some of the most helpful people you'll ever meet, and I'm willing to bet there's a chapter of the TLCA near you that's full of people that could dismantle a cruiser and put it back together that would all be willing to help you out.

These baby's come overbuilt from the factory for the type of traveling most people on this forum do. Park an 80 next to a Cherokee and take a look at the axles/running gear/drag links/ etc. and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You can't go wrong with a Land Cruiser.

Being in Salt Lake, have you seen Moody's LX450? I'm assuming not if you haven't made the decision to pick one up already :Wow1:



-Mike

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Is there a budget or intended use anywhere in this purchase?

 

[Topgun514]

Thanks mike, that really helps me a bit. I emailed Kurt today from Cruiser, he is someone who knows a good friend of mine (the one with the FJ40 rebuild with a 6.5 TD) and he also suggested I look for any LC that is clean. The cleaner the better, no matter the year. I am worried less on HG failure now, you Toyota guys are so damn reliable with your vehicles, if it happens to 4 of them its major. In the Jeep world, it either happens or does not. (0331 head above 225 )

Budget: Will tell after I sure up what is going on with my current XJ. It was my uncles who passed away sept 11 so its not being sold. It will either stay with me or go to a family member.

Most likely: Looking at up to 5000 dollar purchase though I would like to "steal" a LC for under 3K, and do the birfields, brakes if needed and all fluids (expecting $600 here maybe) Then buying a mild lift and an ARB up front. My ARB roofrack on my XJ would then transfer over and I am thinking about chopping off the sides of it to make it easier for a RTT (Its for trade/sell in the ExPo sections here btw so I can get a touring rack instead) Expecting to spend $2K on lift, OME HD or Med 2.5 inch lift and ARB front winch bumper- tires I am thinking 32/33 depending on any diff clearance issues. And because I like the highway and snow they will be Pizza-cutter width
Also, home building a ladder to attach to the rear hatch

Snorkel in the future and maybe a rear tire swing when my job gets better! But I have no problem without one because it is stored outside already. Then a winch in the further future.

After that, by the sounds of things, I wont need anything else to do besides the basic PM of oil changes.


I am thinking about looking into more of AC Delete. Its gotta cut out about 100 lbs and 1-2 mpg. On Jeeps its a big deal.

 

[yohavos]

Yep, all of the mud guys will tell you to look for maintenance history. I picked mine up looking for a project (really just wanted lockers, was willing to work on the rest) but my recommendation would be to check the ih8mud.com classifieds for something that someone has already started. Anyone with more than 100 posts thats selling a rig on that website has generally taken care of a good deal of preventative maintenance (they call it baselining) and has probably already dropped some $ on mods and upgrades. Another great aspect is that mud seems to be pretty self regulating on prices... if someone's price is too high, people will let it be known.

Many looking for the right Cruiser find one on mud, have a local mudder or two check it out, then fly out to pick it up themselves. It seems obsessive, but for the right Cruiser, why not? A one way ticket is less than an ARB, so if the rig already has one, you'd come out ahead.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/vehicles-trailers-sale-wanted/

 

[MoGas]

If fuel economy is of even the slightest concern, look elsewhere. I don't monitor my mileage often, but I am in the low teens at best when I have checked it. I don't DD mine if I can avoid it. I like to drive my bug for mileage.

Mine is as follows:
'93, 230K or so miles, 285 BFG ATs, ARB Commercial bar, Warn 8274, Hanna Sliders, Aussie Locker in the rear, drawers, fridge, National Luna dual battery system, blah, blah, blah........

The winch, Sliders, 285s, and ARB are real mileage grabbers.

 

[sleeoffroad]

So far, I am thinking getting a 91-92, taking out the non-essential in it (rear seats and A/C?) Adding in a FF axle when/ if I ever break it. 32/33 max tire
2.5 inch OME

It will be less powerful and the brakes would be addressed, but I would drive my 1000 mile road trips less worried about the engine. This year seems like the "Jeepesque" drivetrain. Great engine with no power but low end torque, great Tcase and tranny (the bus?) and crappy brakes. Sounds like a jeep to me!

How does that sound guys?

Have you driven a 1991/1992. I would never take that just because I am scared of a head gasket.

When you build a 1991/1992 with all the weight of an expo truck, they do not get out of their own way. They barely do when stock.

 

[sleeoffroad]

This feeling of dread may also be due to the fact I am a Jeep guy, so the worst things that happen are still under a 500 dollar fix typically even in a shop; monetarily, this would be a bigger vehicle.

If you are not a DIY guy and $500 repair bills scare you, then look at a newer Tacoma or 4Runner. You are not going to like the maintenance bills on any 80 series if have a shop do it.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Most likely: Looking at up to 5000 dollar purchase though I would like to "steal" a LC for under 3K, and do the birfields, brakes if needed and all fluids (expecting $600 here maybe) Then buying a mild lift and an ARB up front.

I hate to burst your bubble here, but we do this for a living. $600 is not going to baseline a $5k 80 series. For that money you are looking at a 150k miles plus truck. A single OE birfield is $600 alone. I would rather let you know this up front than have to deal with it later.

I get these calls daily and we see these kinds of trucks weekly. It is nor uncommon to have a $2k bill on a front axle alone (with shop labor rates) to get a high mileage truck back into service 100%

 

[MoGas]

This is quite possibly the most eye opening thread for someone interested in an 80. Very up front and to the point.

All of the 80 and LX450 owners that I personally know (and there are many) have the time and money to properly care and feed these beasts. Not that they are junk, but it is just a whole different level of care that comes with owning a 40-60 thousand dollar vehicle. Like I stated earlier, I don't DD mine. I drive either my Yukon or '69 Bug. If someone was asking about the initial costs and fuel economy of an 80 to be their primary vehicle, I'll tell them. The DIY guys like myself are usually well equipped with tools and skills to tackle any job. If you want honest feedback about 91-92s, PM Fergie or Hltoppr. For someone who just went through the same thing you are, PM Flagster.

 

[Topgun514]

Thanks Slee (great website too)

I thought replacement/ rebuilding birfields (is there a difference in kits?) comes out to around 200 or so when I do the work. And to have this be less than the 300-500 dollars for an axle hub on an XJ seems fine for me, only about 30K miles difference in this.

If you guys would like to completely tell me costs and upkeep I would be glad. I truly thought I was getting the hang of the 80's but I still am a noob in many regards. I do all my own work btw on my jeep besides an axle job (welding and fixing tweaked axle mounts), and my current axle ujoint (time being the only factor) and completely failed axle hub (again, full time student and employee, time was the only reason)

But basic lift kit, brake bleed, hardware installation (bumpers, bored Throttle body, radiator, etc) is all fine with me. I trust that worst comes to worst I enlist the help of a cruiserhead local (one of my friends) and he even has a shop in his garage, and we bust out work together.

The main cost of these beasts seems to only be the axles, which I guarantee I can handle. But please, throw more ideas and thoughts off me please so I can immerse myself in notes and pages. This is becoming very exciting for me!

 

[Pskhaat]

I can't do ALL my own work, but I do some, and I can say I have not had to put more into my 80 than I have my 100 or my Honda or my Ford. Labor is mostly the killer difference and if you can do SOME of the work, all the better.

With a few notable exceptions I have pampered my 80 for the last 14 years, alas it still had the HG issue (which I had replaced at Slee's in ~2004); I would not say that it is directly related to overheating, beating, &c. As stated, if it has generally higher mileage without the issue, it may be moot.

I'm not sure how far most folks push down the skinny pedal on average, but BOTH the FJ80 and FZJ80 are dog-!@#$ing-slow. My personal observation is that the FJ80 "seems" to do a little bit better in the slow crawl trails possibly due to the non-viscous tcase as well as the lower RPM on the torque. Problem is the FJ80s are just that much older and for some reason seem to be beaten up more. Given an FJ80 or FZJ80 in identical shape/mileage I would not necessarily choose one over the other, it would come down to something else aesthetically for me.