100AH Lithium cant handle start up draw

john61ct

Adventurer
Yes indeed. It would seem a Lithium is good for
OMG.

What is "a lithium" in your view?

It is a very limited one.

A bank where each cell is 700Ah

compared to one composed of Headway cylindricals

to one made of A123 pouches

ones designed to jumpstart 18-wheelers

or power a pocket flashlight

or an 18-foot model "jet fighter"

or a 4WD truck.

All are just different designs using the same chemistry!

Pick the right **design** for your use case was the point.

And educate yourself, not flaunt your ignorance.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
aka take a Chill Pill

You post that screed to me and say 'take a chill pill? That's nuts.


OMG.

What is "a lithium" in your view?

It is a very limited one.

A bank where each cell is 700Ah

compared to one composed of Headway cylindricals

to one made of A123 pouches

ones designed to jumpstart 18-wheelers

or power a pocket flashlight

or an 18-foot model "jet fighter"

or a 4WD truck.

All are just different designs using the same chemistry!

Pick the right **design** for your use case was the point.

And educate yourself, not flaunt your ignorance.
 
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67cj5

Man On a Mission
Group Hug :cool:

From where I sit it seems that many folks on the net seem to promote Lithim as the ultimate "Must Have" in power sources but you Guys have cleared up many important fact pointing out it's short comings and the truth is Lithium has very limited uses for our applications,

With standard batteries still being the best for starting, and Deep Cycle FLA being the best for long term constant loads where charging is completed over time, and Lithium is ok for short term power along with having Good charging habits.

Other than that I am even less impressed with lithium batteries now than I was at the beginning, Add the cost of two of them and modify the charging system so it matches the lithium batteries and that would cost more than the total of the rest of accessories put together and I would still need a FLA/SLA system to run my Winch and my Compressor

I think I will use Two small SLA's as my Starters so that Charging system can remain an off the shelf Item where it can be fixed in any part of the world without having to Phone NASA for helps and Run DC FLA's or AGM's for my Camping/Off Grid Power.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
naw dawg.. in simple terms..

Best Bang for the buck FLA, cheap as you can get.. use em, abuse em, throw em away and get new ones several times for the cost of anything else.. 6v GC Batteries carrying the most lead for the least cost.

Worst Bang for the buck AGM/SLA.. literally nothing but garbage until you get into very top of the line, and even then almost none of the gains of AGM are reachable for a small portable overlanding bank.. really only suitable if you gotta install the battery on its side, but its worth the money to try to avoid needing to do that even if it means rebuilding some stuff.. Requires just as much, if not more TLC as LFP.. The only good cheap AGM's are for is strictly starter batteries, since they are almost always at 100% charge and you can downsize the battery/weight and maintain adequate CCA to start, or keep same size to provide high amps for a rare winching.. but a cheaper FLA will do the job just as well for most situations as cheap AGM's are far from real deep cycle, if shown even a little abuse will give up on life far before a decent FLA would in the same situation.. however with a good life they usually last as long as a FLA would had.

LFP provides great bang, for great bucks.. Provides a ton of gains in weight, efficiency, lifecycle, charge rate, required capacity, low self discharge rate, ability to sit for long periods at partial charge, and more.. makes a great house style battery, quickly field charged by solar or generators and blowing the pants off most anything else that dares carry the name "Deep Cycle".. but prices are still several years away from gaining widespread adoption.. still kinda in the early adopter phase and a ton of FUD persists.. its alot of money to mess up, so yeh gotta be willing to do the research and self educate yourself or it could be a very expensive mistake if you choose the wrong battery for the job and dont understand your needs.

Good Charging Habits are required for all batteries, times cost to replace.. If you pack cheap disposable toss aways then its less required but bad charging habits will lead to premature death of any and all battery chemistries.. the more money you got into batteries, the more money you put into protecting those batteries so it does start hurting the pocketbook exponentially as you scale up.
 
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john61ct

Adventurer
See, most people don't know that a quality 12V system even smallish Ah capacity, routinely costs many thousands of dollars,

more than many spend on their whole rig + conversion.

In that context, spending 7x more on batteries to get 10x the lifespan, half the weight and volume is just another decision.

But those attracted to the "drop-in scam" by the thought hey I can just keep my (they think perfectly fine garage style) charger

are just not used to the idea of buying a top-notch ACR rather than a $60 solenoid, or spending $300 on some gadget that might help them get an extra 20% lifespan out of their bank, or $3 a foot for wiring.

Saying "lithium's not worth it" is an opinion, valid for each owner to make.

But disparaging the chemistry just because some drop-in fanboy told you it's fantastic, and you think that must mean "one type for everything", that's just ignorance.

And the whole point of forums is to fight the forces of ignorance.

Choice of bank chemistry varies by use case, there is no "good / bad" outside that context.

Including how the market on your continent has evolved, very few of our choices stateside are available elsewhere, and differences down under, Europe, SA put a big thumb on the scales of the various decision factors.
 

67cj5

Man On a Mission
From an off grid / Camper/RV type situation I can't see the use of them where we run Microwaves and Winches and 40 to 80 A/h Compressors, When it is a well know fact that these batteries don't like heavy discharge rates.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
Nonsense, first of all no batteries "like" heavy discharge rates.. My LFP battery will run your compressor I'm certain, and it runs my microwave no problems.. shame you didnt do your research and buy one that could handle it.. (your max is 100A, my max is 200A, I can handle the startup surge of an 80A motor.. you cannot)

You see the thing is, For Off Grid/Camper/RV type situations, people dont run heavy discharge rates on em like you're wanting too.. you fire up the generator/engine when you need heavy discharge rates.. or else you'll need a full day of charging to make up for your 10-20mins of usage.

How often do you use that winch? If you're like most winch owners.. almost never, wire it up to your starter battery and let it beat that cheap thing to hell on the off chance you need it.. Your compresor? same thing, turn the engine on.. your alternator should be providing power to it just fine w/out ever once touching the battery.. Your trying to use loads that require multiple batteries off a single battery, thats abuse.. the LFP wont let you abuse it because of its BMS.. but just because a FLA will let you run those loads dont mean its not abusive.
 

67cj5

Man On a Mission
See, most people don't know that a quality 12V system even smallish Ah capacity, routinely costs many thousands of dollars,

more than many spend on their whole rig + conversion.

In that context, spending 7x more on batteries to get 10x the lifespan, half the weight and volume is just another decision.

But those attracted to the "drop-in scam" by the thought hey I can just keep my (they think perfectly fine garage style) charger

My 12v System didn't cost more than 6/700 bucks and I already had a good workshop charger that will handle every thing except lithium batteries but I also have 3 Noco Chargers that can deal with them up to 500A/h
 

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