1967 NADA 109 cant make up my mind on this 2.6 power plant

[aka rover]

Well the title pretty much says it all, im on the fence on wether to give the 2.6 NADA motor a go or just ditch it now and be done with it. I have done some research and really cant conclude what i can expect from the 2.6. It looks to have a little more power than the 2.25 but not sure on its reliability. The plus to this 109 is it came with a spare motor and a ton of extra motor parts I.E. heads manifolds etc. I have looked at Mercedesrover's thread and have drooled for some time now, my rover will not be as nice as his but his is an insperation to say the least. I have some FAB skills so a conversion doesnt scare me in the slightest, but was wondering if this motor is worth giving a go. My plans are for a long range expo. rig that will be able to maintain 55-60 while returning a moderate fuel burn. Im not sold on diesel but the idea makes sense for economy and dependability. I have purchased a set of axles from a 80s stage one that got parted out up here so i have a sals rear axle and matching front. Im looking at power steering as well as power disc brakes.

What I have so far for the build in my stash of parts

complete and solid 67 109

motors the stock 2.6 six, a chevy 250 six with a rover series adapter, a 3.9 rover motor as well as 2.25 diesel.
trannys i have a R380/LT230 combo, a seriesIII tranny to weak i think , and a series IIa
axles stock 67 axles, the 80s salsbury stage ones,
wheels defender 110 wheels steel 16", a set of natos 16", stock series 16",
M.O.A.B roof top tent.
Warn 8274 winch
Hella 3000 lights x 4



I am open to any sugestions that you guys or gals might have. My plan is to run parabolics and a 235/85/16 tire, i have had good luck with Rockey Mountains in the past.

Im looking forward to the build and have been spending alot of time researching the posibilitys.

Cheers Ed

 

[Oilburner]

Chevy 250 is kind of a no brainer if you want an easy changeover and you have all the parts. They fit really nice in the 6 cyl trucks. I had a 109 with as 300I6 Ford and a T18, it was a great combo but it needed an OD badly. If you're serious about highway, might be worth it to go to 3.54s from a Disco (put a 10 spline diff in the front and a 24 spline in the rear with 24 spline shafts) and mix and match a SIII trans with an early siffix T box to gain a decent low range. With 3.54s and a slow and steady approach to off-road I would bet the series trans would last a while, save your pennies and upgrade to an NV4500 later on. That would be my plan with your pile of parts. Nice project, good luck!

Cheers

 

[Antichrist]

The 2.6 is ok as long as it's maintained. The biggest problem is the valve in block exhaust valves, people would ignore them and they'd burn.
But for an expedition rig I wouldn't use it as parts are rare enough that it could cause issues in your travels.
I'd go with a 200Tdi from a Defender. The stock drive train can handle it without issue, certainly the Salisbury's can. There are a number of guides on the net for converting Salisbury's to disc, I think I may have linked to one or two in some thread here.

Look on youtube for Series power steering conversion, there's a video about using a Scout steering box I think.

 

[aka rover]

The 2.6 is ok as long as it's maintained. The biggest problem is the valve in block exhaust valves, people would ignore them and they'd burn.
But for an expedition rig I wouldn't use it as parts are rare enough that it could cause issues in your travels.
I'd go with a 200Tdi from a Defender. The stock drive train can handle it without issue, certainly the Salisbury's can. There are a number of guides on the net for converting Salisbury's to disc, I think I may have linked to one or two in some thread here.

Look on youtube for Series power steering conversion, there's a video about using a Scout steering box I think.

Thanks for the input, I really like the idea of a diesel in the rig. How would defender powersteering pump work with the scout box if i go 200TDI. Is there a normal place to buy the 200TDIs from. I saw someone on here importing them to the right coast but still far from home. Disc brakes on the sals would be sweet and theres quit a few front conversions but not sure which is the best. Any ideas how the freeway manners will be with a 200 TDI? Ill try and find the disc conversion links.

Cheers Ed

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Will a Chevy 4.3 fit?

 

[greenmeanie]

Chevy 250 conversion. The gearbox will be OK unless you horse it badly. Ashcroft high range transfer conversion and a sals and she's a good un. Plenty of power for a series, extremely reliable, easy parts, simple to overhaul and best of all you already have it. You can do a Saginaw power steering conversion with a GM spam can for a pump using existign brackets.

I'll confess to being biased as I have a fuel injected, tweaked 292 lump in a NADA 109 mated to an Chevy NP435 to series HRTC drivetrain. I seriously considered a Chevy 4200 or its 5 cyl cousin just for something in line and modern for some fun.

200TDi is an OK engine but try finding the Defender version as with the popularity of the conversion in the UK and else where they are thin on the ground. You could go 300Tdi but that is more engineering to mix and match parts to fit. You're in it for several K for a used engine of unkown history before you even start the conversion. Yo umight also want to check with yourlocal epa about registering a truck with the 200/300Tdi. It was going to be a major headache in Phoenix at least.

There are better engines to look for in the US.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Mercedesrover has been in town (joined him and his wife at the Mooses Tooth), and might be a good person to hit up for diesel conversion questions. For our environment, trail system, and amount of highway driving, a 200TDi doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you're absolutely set on staying with Land Rover. That 5cyl Mercedes conversion seems pretty sweet, especially since you have the 6 cyl bulkhead. Swap out the transmission for something with a little more beef and gearing, and you'll have a great all-around rig.

 

[aka rover]

Hey guys thanks for all the info. I'm stuck on a boat till Saturday so only have limited Internet on my phone. I'll reply to all of you when I return keep the ideas comming.

Cheers Ed

p.s. I'm now straying from the 200 TDI and thinking Mercedes or the chevy six?

 

[James86004]

Is what you have actually running? If so, I would keep it there. Otherwise, the easiest thing to do would be put the Chevy 250 in, since you already have it. My plans, if my Rover 6 ever fails, is to put a 250 in, but the Rover 6 is serving me well for now.

I have the Euro 6 in mine, which is similar to your NADA 6 but exchanges low end torque for peak horsepower. The Euro 6 definitely has more power than the 4 cylinder. The 4 cylinder has a much narrower torque band, whereas the 6's torque peak is at 1800 rpm and it stays pretty close to that peak up to to 3500 or 4000. However, the Chevy has more torque at idle than mine has at peak.

My favorite exhaust note is that from an inline 6.

Put the Salisbury rear axle in if it is not already. Even the Rover 6 eats the Rover rear axles for breakfast.

 

[aka rover]

Will a Chevy 4.3 fit?

probably would but this option really doesnt do it for me.

Chevy 250 conversion. The gearbox will be OK unless you horse it badly. Ashcroft high range transfer conversion and a sals and she's a good un. Plenty of power for a series, extremely reliable, easy parts, simple to overhaul and best of all you already have it. You can do a Saginaw power steering conversion with a GM spam can for a pump using existign brackets.

I'll confess to being biased as I have a fuel injected, tweaked 292 lump in a NADA 109 mated to an Chevy NP435 to series HRTC drivetrain. I seriously considered a Chevy 4200 or its 5 cyl cousin just for something in line and modern

Im really not wanting to put anything to complicated in the rover IE computer controlled items that may or may not be a problem in the future.

Mercedesrover has been in town (joined him and his wife at the Mooses Tooth), and might be a good person to hit up for diesel conversion questions. For our environment, trail system, and amount of highway driving, a 200TDi doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you're absolutely set on staying with Land Rover. That 5cyl Mercedes conversion seems pretty sweet, especially since you have the 6 cyl bulkhead. Swap out the transmission for something with a little more beef and gearing, and you'll have a great all-around rig.

Mike i sent him a PM and asked him about his thoughs and a few questions on his conversion.

There has been a guy advertising a kit for converting a 6 cyl. 109 to a Mercedes Diesel on Land Rover Exchange:

http://www.landroverexchange.com/listings/details/

His contact info is: Robert Davis <rdavisinva@yahoo.com>

If you want to go Rover you can get engines from Land Rover Import
(http://www.landroverimport.com/) and Duncan will ship anywhere you want.

I would definitely go diesel---anything is possible just need time and patience...oh money helps too.
Thanks a bunch for the links i will look into them tonite and yes a diesel is my first choice but still up in the air.
View attachment 72541

Thanks for the links and i will look into them.

Is what you have actually running? If so, I would keep it there. Otherwise, the easiest thing to do would be put the Chevy 250 in, since you already have it. My plans, if my Rover 6 ever fails, is to put a 250 in, but the Rover 6 is serving me well for now.

I have the Euro 6 in mine, which is similar to your NADA 6 but exchanges low end torque for peak horsepower. The Euro 6 definitely has more power than the 4 cylinder. The 4 cylinder has a much narrower torque band, whereas the 6's torque peak is at 1800 rpm and it stays pretty close to that peak up to to 3500 or 4000. However, the Chevy has more torque at idle than mine has at peak.

My favorite exhaust note is that from an inline 6.

Put the Salisbury rear axle in if it is not already. Even the Rover 6 eats the Rover rear axles for breakfast.

I have two running NADA 6s but im concerned about being 3000 miles from home and having a problem with it and not being able to get parts. The purpose of the rig is to travel long distance and being selfsustained. Do you think it would be reliable for long distances with heavy loads of gear. If I knew they where dependable,It would be nice to here from someone that has driven one long distance with success. No matter what motor goes in the sals will be in there.


Thanks everone all the chatter really helps me in making my decission.

Cheers ED

 

[Antichrist]

I always found the Rover 2.6 dependable if maintained well. Like I said though, a lot of people can't be bothered with the exhaust valves.
Rover played around with the 3L used in Rover saloons, but found them to be problematic in Land Rovers for some reason.
The main issue with the 2.6 is it's getting harder to find parts for. I don't know if anyone has really picked up on making aftermarket parts as it seems for some reason people don't care for them overall and replace them.
You might want to check on the Land Rover 1 Ton forum as most 1 Ton's came with the 2.6.

I may be biased, but I wouldn't consider anything but a diesel for long distance trips/exploration. A 200Tdi conversion would be less work but the Mercedes would be easier to get parts for most likely.
If you're not doing your own repairs then a Rover engine would make a little more sense as someone familiar with Land Rovers would likely more likely be more familiar with a Rover diesel than a Mercedes diesel. If you're doing your own repairs, or traveling where you wouldn't be having work done by a specialist, then it probably wouldn't matter.
Personally I would shy away from something that requires getting parts from a single source. For instance, if you have a conversion that requires an adapter then you would have to wait for one to be shipped to you if, however unlikely, the adapter broke.
It's all a trade-off.

 

[aka rover]

I always found the Rover 2.6 dependable if maintained well. Like I said though, a lot of people can't be bothered with the exhaust valves.

I may be biased, but I wouldn't consider anything but a diesel for long distance trips/exploration. A 200Tdi conversion would be less work but the Mercedes would be easier to get parts for most likely.
If you're not doing your own repairs then a Rover engine would make a little more sense as someone familiar with Land Rovers would likely more likely be more familiar with a Rover diesel than a Mercedes diesel. If you're doing your own repairs, or traveling where you wouldn't be having work done by a specialist, then it probably wouldn't matter.
Personally I would shy away from something that requires getting parts from a single source. For instance, if you have a conversion that requires an adapter then you would have to wait for one to be shipped to you if, however unlikely, the adapter broke.
It's all a trade-off.

Im really wanting a diesel the more i research it, the chevy is a simple conversion and i do have it but the dependability of the diesel calls. On another note ive noticed theres not much talk on the 5spd 380 and 230 tcase i have. wouldnt these units make for a strong unit and give an over drive for long road trips.

Another find is that my axle the salisbury and front diff are 3.54 ratios:wings:. Im pretty sure this also means that my front axle is a 24 spline unit since it was from a 80s stage one. I was thinking all this time that since it was a leafer it would have been 4.70 but have found info that stage ones came with 3.54s and 24 spline axles.

I do all my own fabrication and mechanics so parts will be the only hurdles while on the road.
Thanks for your time its keeping me motivated to research the posibilitys.

Cheers Ed

 

[greenmeanie]

Sorry to burst your bubble on the Stage 1 axles but they are 24 spline outers and only 10 spline inners. Early RR or Disco diffs are a source of replacements.

You need to find out if the R380 is from a Disco or Defender. The Disco unit will put the gear lever right back in the middle of the seat box and takes some good money to get the right parts. The Defender box will work as it has a shorter bell housing/input shaft and the gear stick is in the right place. The transfer ratios will also be different with the disco unit being 1.2 (A bit tall for a 200tdi) and the Defender unit being either a 1.4 or 1.6.

Your Stage 1 front axle has CV's as it was designed to run with an LT95 gearbox so you should have no issues running an LT230 transfer case. Look after the chrome swivels as they are non serviceable items unlike the stock series units.

 

[Nonimouse]

The 2.6 is a lovely engine but woefully underpowered and scarily thirsty

But as the Antichrist says it will last for ever if maintained properly

It's also easy to tune if you spend the time and effort

If it was me and I had fuel as cheap as you guys do, then I would look to improve it's running and then run it until it didn't work anymore

Then I would fit a more modern engine

 

[aka rover]

Sorry to burst your bubble on the Stage 1 axles but they are 24 spline outers and only 10 spline inners. Early RR or Disco diffs are a source of replacements.

You need to find out if the R380 is from a Disco or Defender. The Disco unit will put the gear lever right back in the middle of the seat box and takes some good money to get the right parts. The Defender box will work as it has a shorter bell housing/input shaft and the gear stick is in the right place. The transfer ratios will also be different with the disco unit being 1.2 (A bit tall for a 200tdi) and the Defender unit being either a 1.4 or 1.6.

Your Stage 1 front axle has CV's as it was designed to run with an LT95 gearbox so you should have no issues running an LT230 transfer case. Look after the chrome swivels as they are non serviceable items unlike the stock series units.

The tranny is out of a disco so not the right one, Dang Rovers 24 spline outers but 10 inners cheesy!!

Very good information thanks

The 2.6 is a lovely engine but woefully underpowered and scarily thirsty

This is enough to make me not want to run this motor, I know i can carry loads of fuel but then that takes away room for other creature comforts.

Cheers Ed