1973 Wagoneer - Full Size Camping Goodness
- Thread starter Dr. Marneaus
- Start date
CLK Foxhall
Adventurer
The Wagoneer looks great!
Enjoyed the pics & vids - Thanks.
Admire all the effort you've put in - Keep up the great work & have fun!
Cheers!
~CLK
Enjoyed the pics & vids - Thanks.
Admire all the effort you've put in - Keep up the great work & have fun!
Cheers!
~CLK
ttravis5446
Adventurer
It sounds to me like maybe the master cylinder needs more bench bleeding. Or possibly there is something funky with the rod length somewhere between the pedal / booster / master cylinder. Most of the reading I did said that you need to used the master with the plastic reservoir with the later dual diaphragm booster. The picture shows the early style master, maybe that could be the problem?
Josh Hixon
78WideTrak
If theres one thing all us FSJeep guys can agree on it's... They're down more than they're up
heres mine btw
View attachment 174683
not a day goes by that I don't want to sell it!! LOL
Matt
Mine has only been "down" 3 days in the 2.5 years that I have owned it (Waiting on the low range seal from BJ's). Guess I have been lucky. Doc, still love the Waggy. Looking better every time that you post! Good job.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
reece146
Automotive Artist
This is my thought too. Gravity bleed the system for a long time...? Pull the calipers to get the bleed screw low if they aren't already? Power bleeder?
jps4jeep
Observer
^^^This, I am leading more towards a plunger adjustment. the rod (plunger) that passes from the booster into the master should have an adjusting screw on the end. you most likely need to turn it out in 1/4 turn increments until you get a good pedal.
BUT
Also check that you are not loosing fluid at all, you can have the smallest hole in a hard line and the brakes will function fine when pressed, the pedal might/will go to the floor with some resistance, on the second press of the pedal, it will firm up causing you to think it is an issue with the master. Depending on where the line fracture is, you may never see the leak. If you notice the master is slowly getting lower, I suggest have someone press on the brakes while you look under the jeep if you suspect this.
Dr. Marneaus
Station Wagoneer
thanks for the help guys.
Still fighting it.
No leaks. double checked and checked again.
I'm on my 3rd MC, and my 2nd booster. There is no adjustment in the booster (I know, odd right?).
I'm just chasing down every possible cause.
Still fighting it.
No leaks. double checked and checked again.
I'm on my 3rd MC, and my 2nd booster. There is no adjustment in the booster (I know, odd right?).
I'm just chasing down every possible cause.
I ve had fun watching your build on both jeep and camper! hats off to u man. you are definitely headed in the rite direction with the axel swap. once you get the brakes working a cheap upgrade that really helped my wagys brakes is to swap in 1987 chevy2500series calipers. they will fit right in place of your 1/2ton units! there is a little casting nub u have to grind off and they fit rite in. use your stock rotors and pads! this increases the piston diameter and therefore clamping pressure. that combined w stainless braded hoses to get rid of the mushy GM brake pedal. you will think its a new vehicle. im swinging 1250 33s on my 87 wagoneer and I can stop it w one toe on the pedal. I haven't even put the Cadillac escalade calipers on the rear axel yet!
Jim K in PA
Adventurer
I just went through this with a Healey. Bench bleeding the master did not get all the air out. I solved the problem by unbolting the master with the line attached. I tilted it fore/aft and cycled the piston with it at different angles. I could not believe how much air was trapped. Once the big bubbles were out I then line bled it like normal and all was well. I also went through this years ago with one of my old Pontiacs.
Keep at it. There is some air trapped somewhere. Also make sure that if it has a proportioning valve that it has not gone off-center.
Keep at it. There is some air trapped somewhere. Also make sure that if it has a proportioning valve that it has not gone off-center.
Jim K in PA
Adventurer
PM'd to prevent thread pollution. :costumed-smiley-007
haminawag
New member
Loving this thread
Hey Dr. Marn, Just started on your thread today, it's just the inspiration the Dr. ordered for me. I bought my Wagoneer in Sept. of 2012 with EXACTLY the same goal in mind as you. Mine needs quite a bit of TLC though. You still have air in the brake lines? Do you own a Mity-Vac yet? No? Buy one! You'll thank me. I still gotta read the rest of your thread to see what you did with the brakes, but in the 35 years I've spent turning wrenches I have learned that the answer IS there. Great pics BTW, compliments to the photographer. As a native New Mexican I apperciate the beautiful southwest scenery, not much of that here in Lincoln-land. Howdy to all the friendly folks on this thread, please have patience with me, I'm a newbie here. Ham-in-a Wag.
Hey Dr. Marn, Just started on your thread today, it's just the inspiration the Dr. ordered for me. I bought my Wagoneer in Sept. of 2012 with EXACTLY the same goal in mind as you. Mine needs quite a bit of TLC though. You still have air in the brake lines? Do you own a Mity-Vac yet? No? Buy one! You'll thank me. I still gotta read the rest of your thread to see what you did with the brakes, but in the 35 years I've spent turning wrenches I have learned that the answer IS there. Great pics BTW, compliments to the photographer. As a native New Mexican I apperciate the beautiful southwest scenery, not much of that here in Lincoln-land. Howdy to all the friendly folks on this thread, please have patience with me, I'm a newbie here. Ham-in-a Wag.
if your still having trouble with air in the lines, remember that when you change the master cyl. air is in the top of the lines at the master connections. this has to be pushed all the way through the system to get the air out. I usually use this as a good flush, and change of fluid at the same time. if your fluid is all clear and clean, you can catch and recycle it. front and back wheels are separate brake systems tied to one pedal. if you have changed out three masters, you may have six pockets of air to get rid of. don't start your bleeding procedure by repetitive pumping the pedal. have someone slowly push one full stroke and hold down while you crack the bleeder farthest away from the master cyl. first. leave the bleeder open 3to4 secs. then close and repeat. no need to pump till you get some pedal. good luck.
haminawag
New member
It'd sure be nice to know what type of proportioning valve you're using, and where it's located. Some prop valves have an "up" side and a "down" side, invert it and it'll trap air forever.
Okay, we know your brake system isn't sucking in any air because you aren't losing any fluid, we know you have enough brake pedal to stop the truck, yet you can still depress the brake pedal to the floorboards. And we know that you can lock the rear tires in a panic stop scenario, but you should be able to lock the FRONT tires since 65% of your braking is up front, or is SUPPOSED to be up front. If I have all of these points correct, then I believe you have crossed the front & rear brake lines on the prop. valve. If the Prop. valve has internal valving you could simply be recycling some trapped air in the valve from front to rear and back again, sort of a self perpetuating sort of circumstance. But without knowing about the prop. valve itself, it's hard to say exactly. However a simple test can tell you a lot:
Remove the MC cap and observe the fluid as a helper slowly but firmly depresses the brake pedal as far as possible. If you see ANY bubbles, even tiny ones, then you have air trapped in the system SOMEWHERE, probably in the prop. valve, bleeding it can be a royal mother! Like I said, BUY A MITY-VAC!! And use it to bleed the system. I've had to sit and bleed these stupid prop. valve systems for near an hour and just when you think you've successfully done it, you get a rush of tiny bubbles in the vacuum recovery cup. Also remember that NO air in the brake system means a rock hard pedal and poorer braking performance.
If you can lock the FRONT brakes, and you feel that the brakes will stop the truck in an emergency situation, AND you're not losing fluid anywhere, then drive the dern thing, the system will self-bleed over time. Good luck and remember to have fun. "What needs to be fixed on the side of the road was neglected in the driveway." Cornfucius
PS: don't get the Mity-Vac with the gauge, it's useless for most things on a vehicle. You just need a strong source of vacuum
Okay, we know your brake system isn't sucking in any air because you aren't losing any fluid, we know you have enough brake pedal to stop the truck, yet you can still depress the brake pedal to the floorboards. And we know that you can lock the rear tires in a panic stop scenario, but you should be able to lock the FRONT tires since 65% of your braking is up front, or is SUPPOSED to be up front. If I have all of these points correct, then I believe you have crossed the front & rear brake lines on the prop. valve. If the Prop. valve has internal valving you could simply be recycling some trapped air in the valve from front to rear and back again, sort of a self perpetuating sort of circumstance. But without knowing about the prop. valve itself, it's hard to say exactly. However a simple test can tell you a lot:
Remove the MC cap and observe the fluid as a helper slowly but firmly depresses the brake pedal as far as possible. If you see ANY bubbles, even tiny ones, then you have air trapped in the system SOMEWHERE, probably in the prop. valve, bleeding it can be a royal mother! Like I said, BUY A MITY-VAC!! And use it to bleed the system. I've had to sit and bleed these stupid prop. valve systems for near an hour and just when you think you've successfully done it, you get a rush of tiny bubbles in the vacuum recovery cup. Also remember that NO air in the brake system means a rock hard pedal and poorer braking performance.
If you can lock the FRONT brakes, and you feel that the brakes will stop the truck in an emergency situation, AND you're not losing fluid anywhere, then drive the dern thing, the system will self-bleed over time. Good luck and remember to have fun. "What needs to be fixed on the side of the road was neglected in the driveway." Cornfucius
PS: don't get the Mity-Vac with the gauge, it's useless for most things on a vehicle. You just need a strong source of vacuum
haminawag
New member
Guy's, get this catalog
I almost forgot to mention Surplus Sales of Nebraska, awesome company with a great paper catalog full of all sorts of mechanical, electrical, electronic, hydraulic, pneumatic stuff, easy prices too, name it and they have it, usually.
http://www.surplussales.com/
I almost forgot to mention Surplus Sales of Nebraska, awesome company with a great paper catalog full of all sorts of mechanical, electrical, electronic, hydraulic, pneumatic stuff, easy prices too, name it and they have it, usually.
http://www.surplussales.com/