1988 4Runner: Summer Beater

[TacoFWC]

Nice work on the build, and you are gonna love that t-case. Nice job on the CV mod too. Those things are tough as nails. I think the first gen Pickup CV's had a higher angle drive shaft, but looks like you got more than enough with your mod. Not sure what shape the joints were in that you changed, but if they are salvageable you should definitely throw them in with the trail spares. Toyota OEM joints are renown for being incredibly strong. A CV shaft in the rear is a good upgrade. Few other things could cause vibes too. One could be rear pinion angle, easily fixed with some shims, and another reason could be the rear output flange on the t-case. That thing needs to be hammered on ******** tight. Looks like you have a spare front shaft. You can use the CV off of that for the rear, the diameter of the boss should be the same for the front as the rear. If that doesn't work out the vibes you will definitely want to keep troubleshooting. I tried to just live with some vibes after switching to dual cases, and I ended up rattling a u joint cap out on the road, and later completely smoked the CV on my rear shaft. I had some above average vibes but either way, vibes are no good over time. Sorry if I am horning in with a bunch of yammering you already know about. Also, love those SR5 rims, looks awesome.

 

[austintaco]

Looks good..no, it looks great!

 

[ssapach]

Thanks everyone!

Don't worry if you think you're yammering on, I don't claim to know everything and I'm not scared to try to learn more. As for the u-joints, they weren't exactly salvageable by the time I got everything apart. I ended up cutting one to get it out. They bearings were loose enough from wear, but the caps were rusted in pretty good.

I found out that my triple drilled flanges didn't like the pattern on the stock rear drive shaft. I already had to take the stubby end of a front shaft to use on my rear shaft, and I'll need a different end once I swap my rear diff. I guess that will all be taken care of when I get a rear shaft built.

The painted driveshaft in the pic was the one originally from the 4Runner. I put all new joints in it before lifting the vehicle and realizing that it wouldn't flex enough. So I might just try to sell it to someone who has an IFS vehicle. Or keep for spare bits......

Lots of screwing around with little odds and ends now it seems. I just hope that a rear CV will cut out the vibrations. I should double check the pinion angle, but I want to put a few more miles on it so things settle a little bit more before getting the shafts built. I sure hope the vibration isn't caused by the disc for the t-case brake on the back of the t-case.....I sort of need that for a park brake!

The big one is coming though. I've been waiting for over a month for this now, my full floater rear axle kit! Should be hear on Monday but I have to go back to work so nothing will happen with it for another week or so.

 

[TacoFWC]

Pinion angle can definitely give you vibes, but I would go straight after that output flange and whatever may be attached to it, maybe take the disc off and take it for a run. I also can't stress enough how tight that nut on the t-case output flange needs to be. It needs to be waylayed on there with an impact, hand tools aren't gonna cut it. How bad are the vibes, and are that at different MPH/loads? I tried all kids of things to fix mine, but never found the problem until I put the rear axle on jack stands and stuffed it in gear, thats when I found my rear flange had a wobble to it. Good luck, and if you have the perseverance to change joints in a CV you can probably work through about anything haha

 

[ssapach]

I'm getting mixed responses about driveshafts from all directions here. Some people say I need longer splines up front, while others who have done a SAS say that the stock spline length is adequate for what the leaf springs will allow for flex. I hate to blow cash on a long spline kit and not need it, but I also hate to blow cash on making a new drive shaft with stock splines and then find out I needed the longer ones. The other problem is that around Edmonton, any driveline shop thinks I'm speaking a foreign language when I mention "long spline" anything.

As for the rear, some say the CV shaft will help with vibrations and some say it's unnecessary. It was suggested that I change the u-joints first to see if that helps with any vibration/noise. It's the cheaper route, and I won't feel bad over a $30 joint rather than getting a $300 shaft made that's not required.

And so I finally got my full floating rear axle conversion kit from Front Range Off-Road. I'm not going to lie, I am disappointed right now. First of all I'm annoyed with the delivery time, although they had no trouble putting the charge through on my credit card immediately. I can understand that they didn't have every single item in stock and I much prefer they ship it all at once, but I was surprised to be waiting for over a month when I was charged for it right away. And then I opened the boxes to look at the parts. I discover old, used locking hubs in the box. I also discovered wheel hubs that are still dirty with old hardware still installed and the bearing races installed. Now I knew I was getting used spindles and wheel hubs with the kit, as I'm pretty sure nobody makes them brand new. But I was at least expecting them to be fully disassembled and cleaned. For the cost of this entire kit plus the shipping, I could have bought all the miscellaneous little bits and pieces here, along with a donor front axle for hubs and spindles, and just had Front Range supply the axle shafts and adapter brackets. Nowhere on their website did it say anything about "used" locking hubs, nor did they tell me that when I ordered it. I have 2 sets of old hubs here at home I would have used. I thought the extra charge for hubs was for brand new hubs, that's exactly why I ordered them with the kit. Used Toyota hubs around here aren't a $150 item.....

I have no doubt I will be quite pleased with the overall finished product, but I am seriously disappointed that they did not give me the full information about the parts. Now I'm stuck with some disassembly and cleaning of parts that I could have had for a heck of a lot cheaper while still having to do just as much work.

So, not to outright bash them as a company, but if anyone else is thinking of ordering the same kit from them.......just beware that the parts aren't quite accurately described on their website.

End rant I guess......

 

[Deleted member 9101]

I'm gonna try some rock chip protection:

I put 5-6 layers of the black on the front forks and swing arm of my motorcycle plus a few other tid-bits. Just rode cross country, through some extremely nasty weather, down looong dirt roads out west, and everything else that can be thrown at a bike. It doesn't have a single scratch, chip, or flaw in it.

 

[TacoFWC]

You have access to a forklift? You can find out real quick if you have enough driveshaft in front. Take a measurement before and after running it up to max flex. Leafs aren't going to give you flex like links but they can definitely get the job done. I have leafs on my Taco, the front are some garbage I pieced together, and I have 6" Marlins in the back. I can't remember how much travel my front slines get during flex, but I imagine a stock shaft would be cutting it reeeally close.

On the vibes...I think I read something about you switching to a new tcase mount. Did you get a hardcore poly one or an OEM style? Just curious too, how bad are the vibes and are they at different speeds/load or constant?

 

[ssapach]

Jnich77: Thanks for the input on the Plasti Dip! I haven't had it on anything yet so I wasn't sure how well it would hold up on the road, but sounds like it should do me quite well!


As for my vibration issue, I did replace the t-case mount with a factory style one. My luck though was that the bolt holes to the t-case housing weren't in the right spot, so I had to modify that particular part of the mount. Otherwise it mounted to the cross member the same and wasn't made out of any sort of super hard material. I was hoping that wouldn't be causing the issue.

First up, I'm going to replace u-joints. If the problem persists I might take the park brake disc off the output flange and see if that's the culprit. If it still persists then I may be a bit lost at that point.

The vibrations can be felt at slow speeds (less than 50 km/hr) but aren't noticeable at highway speed or under acceleration above the 50 km/hr mark. There is noise coming from the t-case during the intermediate coast period from the time it takes the drivetrain to get from acceleration load to deceleration load. I was reading some online stuff (as trustworthy as it can be sometimes) that the noise is the result of vibrations, although I can't actually feel the vibrations at the higher speeds, just lower speed.

It will get sorted out one way or another....I just prefer it doesn't involve removing or rebuilding the t-case.

 

[TacoFWC]

I had to do the same thing wit my mount. The holes were about a 1/2" off and I cut and welded on the mount to make it work. IMHO, I'd remove that disc and see where you get. It does make sense to go after a U-joint if you are picking up vibes on decel, but why didn't it happen before the tcase and disc? Plus its free to remove that disc, and you'd be able to rule it out in an hour rather than R&R u-joints at 30 bucks a pop, plus who knows how long to change depending on how o'nry they want to be. Just a side note, I have obliterated gobs of 30 dollar u-joints. I got tired of it at one point and installed some SuperJoints, and am yet to break one. If you throw in cheap joints, and they never fail, good to go. If you break one, I'd suggest not wasting your time and money on another...again, just my 30 dollars worth

 

[ssapach]

I swapped the stubbed slip joint end of the driveshaft with another, because the original has a different bolt pattern than the triple drilled flanges have......with larger bolts. So the replacement piece has a u-joint of unknown condition. It's dirty and rusty, but isn't sloppy when you move it around by hand. But that doesn't mean it's not worn out and only shows when you drive at high speeds.

That u-joint will get replaced regardless if it's the only culprit here or not. So it will be my starting point. I have access to a press, u-joints aren't that painful to do.

It's my luck, this vehicle has 2 different bolt patterns between the front and rear driveshafts with larger bolts for the rear.

 

[ssapach]

I swear the fun never ends.....

Got my front driveshaft in. Fits fine and runs at low speed, but vibrates at any higher speed. By higher speed I mean above 20-30 km/hr. It's at a pretty good angle right now though. I really wonder ****** people do with other short wheelbase vehicles, like Jeeps? I think in the near future I am going to remove a leaf on each side of the front. Should lower me a bit and smooth out the ride a bit, and help my driveshaft angle.

Next up, the noise from the t-case. Replaced the front u-joint on the rear driveshaft......it was pretty crummy inside. So now I don't feel any vibrations at any speed, yet my t-case still makes the same old noise. I had a scary feeling all along that I didn't clearance one of the the shift forks enough for the lower gear set. I was hoping that wasn't it, because I don't want to remove the t-case and pull it apart.....but I might have to now.

After that, got my rear full floater kit installed and put in a Detroit locker with 4.88 gears to match my front. Seems to drive fine for a start, have to go through a break in period yet. But I took it for a short drive and I hear some squealing sounds every once in a while. When it first came up it got pretty loud pretty fast and sort of scared me. At that point I stopped and disengaged the rear axle and drove a bit in front wheel drive. Noise went away. Put it back in rwd and drove for a bit with no noise at all, whether it was accel, decel or cruising speed.

Then I was going to turn around and go home and I start hearing the noise again as I'm slowing down. A lot less noise this time though, went away at higher speeds though. Hope my gears aren't already screwed......

Aside from all that, pics:

 

[toyotech]

wow that is a sweet rear end. unlock the rear hubs and can do front digs???

 

[Redneck92]

Surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but the shackle angle up front is horrible. Border line dangerous of inverting and bending a leaf. They need to be a little less than vertical with no weight on them. There's a few ways to fix it but both require undoing things you have already done. You can either move the front hanger bad or cut out the shackle tube a move it forward. I know this is a rear setup but it will give you an idea of what shackle angle should be with and without weight.
Without weight

With weight

Shackle angle has a lot to do with ride quality and down travel, with your current angle your down travel will be very minimal and ride will suffer drastically.

 

[Redneck92]

Build looks great though, love that ff rear conversion.

 

[OSV]

that's a good point, his front shackles are nearly vertical.

however, the compressed shackle angle in your pic is the opposite problem, it's far too severe.

Surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but the shackle angle up front is horrible. Border line dangerous of inverting and bending a leaf. They need to be a little less than vertical with no weight on them. There's a few ways to fix it but both require undoing things you have already done. You can either move the front hanger bad or cut out the shackle tube a move it forward. I know this is a rear setup but it will give you an idea of what shackle angle should be with and without weight.
With weight

Shackle angle has a lot to do with ride quality and down travel, with your current angle your down travel will be very minimal and ride will suffer drastically.