CassidyN3555L
Cassidy
Ha!, I meant to say Sea foam but the autocorrect said Seafood. I tried some left over salmon in the tank and that didn't seem to work either 
1988 RRC 4.6L Conversion - Need some assistance
- Thread starter CassidyN3555L
- Start date
ProvinceOverland
New member
I had a similar problem on my 1994 RRC and I just got it up and running the culprit was basically a loose wire http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/images/Tasters/Ignition02.png
Take a look at this link I know it's for an SD1 but it's pretty much the same set up as an RRC . You will want to make sure you have the 6.8 ohm resistor wired to the negative side of the coil , that resister is the only link between you ECU and ignition system .
If you have any problems feel free to pm me and I can walk you through it .
Thanks
Tim
97 D1
01 D2
94 RRC
https://www.facebook.com/provinceoverland/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
Take a look at this link I know it's for an SD1 but it's pretty much the same set up as an RRC . You will want to make sure you have the 6.8 ohm resistor wired to the negative side of the coil , that resister is the only link between you ECU and ignition system .
If you have any problems feel free to pm me and I can walk you through it .
Thanks
Tim
97 D1
01 D2
94 RRC
https://www.facebook.com/provinceoverland/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
CassidyN3555L
Cassidy
I'll definitely look into this. Thanks so much.
DividingCreek
Explorer
Don't remove the feed line, remove the return line. Turn the key to the run position. The fuel pump should run for 10 secs and you should hear it. If the pump is making sufficient pressure fuel will come out of the fuel pressure regulator. If nothing comes out you have less than 45psi and the truck wont run. If fuel is coming out of the regulator your problem is most likely spark or timing.
Your answer may lie in Tim's post and diagram here.
I had the same issue when I swapped an EFI engine into my 1986 D110, and it turned out to be the white wire from the EFI harness to the negative terminal on the ignition coil.
As Tim said, that's your only link between the ECU and ignition. The ECU won't fire the injectors unless this wire is connected.
Google 14CUX and learn how this ECU functions, it's pretty simple really.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Process of elimination:
An engine needs three things to run. Fuel, Spark, and Compression. Focus on eliminating one of these at a time. Forget Rover, forget Lucas and all that scary business (for now).
Rent or buy (you'll need it later) a noid light. This cheap tool will tell you definitively if your injectors are getting a signal to fire.
Are you getting good, hot spark? Pull the #1 plug, and hold it against the exhaust manifold. Have somebody crank the motor. Don't get zapped.
If you have fuel at the rail, and you can hear your fuel pump doing it's thing when you turn the key, you should be in good shape there.
It could be one of a million things.
Get back here and let us know what you find.
An engine needs three things to run. Fuel, Spark, and Compression. Focus on eliminating one of these at a time. Forget Rover, forget Lucas and all that scary business (for now).
Rent or buy (you'll need it later) a noid light. This cheap tool will tell you definitively if your injectors are getting a signal to fire.
Are you getting good, hot spark? Pull the #1 plug, and hold it against the exhaust manifold. Have somebody crank the motor. Don't get zapped.
If you have fuel at the rail, and you can hear your fuel pump doing it's thing when you turn the key, you should be in good shape there.
It could be one of a million things.
Get back here and let us know what you find.
CassidyN3555L
Cassidy
**UPDATE**
Went through a bunch of checks and found that the engine timing was 180 off. Pulled the distributor and wired it up correctly, was able to start and operate.
Good news is that truck works, now there is a bunch of fine tuning needed to get things squared away.
Despite a 4.6L conversion with Crower cam, engine is gutless and underpowered almost worse than the 3.5L that was previously in there. I suspect timing is still off, though when I set it to what appears to be 10-12 degrees off TDC it feels like its idling way too high. The tach isn't working but the wire appears to be connected and I cleaned the contacts. Not quite sure what's going on there. Timing the engine based on the Tach wasn't an option so I timed it based on how it should sound/run. Timing it this way seemed to work though the engine just doesn't have any power. I took on a test drive the other day and pulled a series of mid to steep hills and was losing 10-25mph depending on the hill. I was also only getting 11.5mpg despite not having any notable power. If I can figure out how to get the tach working this might help, also may need to pull the distributor again though I think it is where it should be. Any thoughts on how to fix the tach? Sure would make things easier.
Another thought on being underpowered is wondering if the 3.5L injectors were still in use and maybe it needs 4.6L injects. The information I got seems to be unclear and I'm not quite sure how to check yet. If 4.6 injectors has a high likelihood of solving or at least improving the power issue, I'll just go ahead and swap them out.
My turn signals aren't working. I've changed the switch unit in the steering column and cleaned contacts/changed bulbs. Not sure why else these aren't working.
The engine also has a light tick to it that doesn't sound right. The ticking is very similar to the ticking from those old board games with the spinny wheels like "Life". It increase and decreases with engine RPMs. It sounds as though it may be coming from the water pump and/or water pump pulley. The pulley almost looks as if its unbalanced and I noticed it only has 2 out of 3 bolts securing it. Not sure if this is a cause or contributing factor.
During my test drive the engine timing appeared to be slipping to a point where it would almost stall out and the oil level light would flicker once or twice then turn off. Also wondering if ticking sound might be insufficient oil level and may be coming from the cam or perhaps a lifter. Oil level was appropriate so not sure if Lucas electronics are just being themselves or if I'm missing something.
Also found that my temp gauge doesn't work either. Engine does not appear to be overheating and the cooling system appears to be working appropriately. Though I'm not sure how to fix my temp gauge. It is wired up correctly, just not giving me a signal. Wondering if related to the tach not working since they're on the same side of the gauge cluster. My speedometer, fuel gauge, odometer, and trip odometer are all functioning appropriately.
In theory this engine was built with mostly new parts, at least new guts, though I've found a lot of things that didn't quite match the description of the work performed so it's hard to tell what was actually done. The heads are definitely new and when peering down inside the oil fill hole, the internal components appear to be new or very clean.
Any who, that's the latest and I'll be going through it over the next few days in hopes of sorting things out and getting it to run properly.
Thanks!
Went through a bunch of checks and found that the engine timing was 180 off. Pulled the distributor and wired it up correctly, was able to start and operate.
Good news is that truck works, now there is a bunch of fine tuning needed to get things squared away.
Despite a 4.6L conversion with Crower cam, engine is gutless and underpowered almost worse than the 3.5L that was previously in there. I suspect timing is still off, though when I set it to what appears to be 10-12 degrees off TDC it feels like its idling way too high. The tach isn't working but the wire appears to be connected and I cleaned the contacts. Not quite sure what's going on there. Timing the engine based on the Tach wasn't an option so I timed it based on how it should sound/run. Timing it this way seemed to work though the engine just doesn't have any power. I took on a test drive the other day and pulled a series of mid to steep hills and was losing 10-25mph depending on the hill. I was also only getting 11.5mpg despite not having any notable power. If I can figure out how to get the tach working this might help, also may need to pull the distributor again though I think it is where it should be. Any thoughts on how to fix the tach? Sure would make things easier.
Another thought on being underpowered is wondering if the 3.5L injectors were still in use and maybe it needs 4.6L injects. The information I got seems to be unclear and I'm not quite sure how to check yet. If 4.6 injectors has a high likelihood of solving or at least improving the power issue, I'll just go ahead and swap them out.
My turn signals aren't working. I've changed the switch unit in the steering column and cleaned contacts/changed bulbs. Not sure why else these aren't working.
The engine also has a light tick to it that doesn't sound right. The ticking is very similar to the ticking from those old board games with the spinny wheels like "Life". It increase and decreases with engine RPMs. It sounds as though it may be coming from the water pump and/or water pump pulley. The pulley almost looks as if its unbalanced and I noticed it only has 2 out of 3 bolts securing it. Not sure if this is a cause or contributing factor.
During my test drive the engine timing appeared to be slipping to a point where it would almost stall out and the oil level light would flicker once or twice then turn off. Also wondering if ticking sound might be insufficient oil level and may be coming from the cam or perhaps a lifter. Oil level was appropriate so not sure if Lucas electronics are just being themselves or if I'm missing something.
Also found that my temp gauge doesn't work either. Engine does not appear to be overheating and the cooling system appears to be working appropriately. Though I'm not sure how to fix my temp gauge. It is wired up correctly, just not giving me a signal. Wondering if related to the tach not working since they're on the same side of the gauge cluster. My speedometer, fuel gauge, odometer, and trip odometer are all functioning appropriately.
In theory this engine was built with mostly new parts, at least new guts, though I've found a lot of things that didn't quite match the description of the work performed so it's hard to tell what was actually done. The heads are definitely new and when peering down inside the oil fill hole, the internal components appear to be new or very clean.
Any who, that's the latest and I'll be going through it over the next few days in hopes of sorting things out and getting it to run properly.
Thanks!
Last edited:
Steve Polychronopolous
New member
Couple thoughts on what it could be
1. Fuel pressure regulator vacuum line not hooked up
2. Distributor locked up and not mechanically advancing. Check if timing moves with rpm
3. Cam and crank not aligned during assembly. Bent all of your intake valves explains the whirring noise. Compression check
4. Wrong firing order on distributor
While not ideal, it isn't the 3.5 Ecu and it isn't the injectors They will run this engine
1. Fuel pressure regulator vacuum line not hooked up
2. Distributor locked up and not mechanically advancing. Check if timing moves with rpm
3. Cam and crank not aligned during assembly. Bent all of your intake valves explains the whirring noise. Compression check
4. Wrong firing order on distributor
While not ideal, it isn't the 3.5 Ecu and it isn't the injectors They will run this engine
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
Yes and they are "running" the engine. I've been down this road before. What tends to happen is that the 14CU (not CUX) ECU gets pushed outside it's fuelling tables and injector duty cycle by the airflow coming through the MAF on a cammed 4.6 and defaults to full rich mode, dumping as much fuel as it can to keep the engine "safe". This is why you are seeing horrible performance and also horrible fuel mileage. I bet when you stomp on it, it coughs black smoke out the tailpipe.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
Now for a resolution, look into how to convert 14CU to 14CUX (it's pretty simple IIRC) and use a 4.2 ECU box. This will get your base tune much closer to where it should be and might be usable.
Remember the 1988 3.5 was a 143bhp engine. Your cammed 4.6 should be twice that.
Remember the 1988 3.5 was a 143bhp engine. Your cammed 4.6 should be twice that.
jymmiejamz
Adventurer
If it was originally a 3.5, it probably would have been 13CU.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
You're right Jimmy - 13CU on 87/88, 14CU on 89, 14CUX on 90+
More info here for the OP, http://www.seriesdefender.com/manuals/1314CU_14CUX_Systems.pdf
More info here for the OP, http://www.seriesdefender.com/manuals/1314CU_14CUX_Systems.pdf
CassidyN3555L
Cassidy
For clarification, I'm looking for and appreciate the constructive ideas. You've been quite insightful.
Without going into a long story, I was mislead into this conversion experience and basically left hung out on my own with a partially completed project when it was supposed to have been performed by an experienced Rover mechanic / buddy of mine who has since skipped town. All that aside, now I'm just trying to fix and get the truck running appropriately. I'm modestly mechanically inclined and growing. This is my first Rover and biggest project to date and I've been trying to restore it, but its been a very steep and kind of expensive learning curve (Wouldn't expect anything less with a Rover).
I believe my current ECU is the PRC 0977 (big space then upside down peace symbol or perhaps a steering wheel) then the number 84778A with a date code of 09/88.
I'm not sure if this is the same as the 13CU that others are referring to, I'm also not sure if this is the correct module as it says Electronic Fuel Injection Control Unit and maybe there is just an engine management control unit under the hood or somewhere else. This one is located under my passenger front seat.
In either case, what I'm hearing you folks say is that I might be better served by the 4.2L ECU? Why not the 4.6L or are they the same thing? Are they both the 14CUX that I regularly read about?
It's a little unclear as to what was being said about whether or not I should change the injectors. I'll do what is necessary but don't want to just throw money away either.
What is the acronym Proper4wd used, IIRC, stand for?
Thanks again for sharing your ideas and helping me troubleshoot this mess.
Without going into a long story, I was mislead into this conversion experience and basically left hung out on my own with a partially completed project when it was supposed to have been performed by an experienced Rover mechanic / buddy of mine who has since skipped town. All that aside, now I'm just trying to fix and get the truck running appropriately. I'm modestly mechanically inclined and growing. This is my first Rover and biggest project to date and I've been trying to restore it, but its been a very steep and kind of expensive learning curve (Wouldn't expect anything less with a Rover
). I believe my current ECU is the PRC 0977 (big space then upside down peace symbol or perhaps a steering wheel) then the number 84778A with a date code of 09/88.
I'm not sure if this is the same as the 13CU that others are referring to, I'm also not sure if this is the correct module as it says Electronic Fuel Injection Control Unit and maybe there is just an engine management control unit under the hood or somewhere else. This one is located under my passenger front seat.
In either case, what I'm hearing you folks say is that I might be better served by the 4.2L ECU? Why not the 4.6L or are they the same thing? Are they both the 14CUX that I regularly read about?
It's a little unclear as to what was being said about whether or not I should change the injectors. I'll do what is necessary but don't want to just throw money away either.
What is the acronym Proper4wd used, IIRC, stand for?
Thanks again for sharing your ideas and helping me troubleshoot this mess.
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