Hi guys,
I'm a new poster, but have been lurking for years. I finally got a van that i can build into a multi-purpose work/play truck (so my Denali stops getting the crap beat out of it.) I'll use it during the week for taking large projects (i own a sign company) to clients, and on the weekend/vacations for trips. I'd like to build it like a Weekender. Enough room for 6 to ride and sleep comfortably, with room for gear. It's huge - i don't see it being an issue.
So, to whit I found and purchased, much to my wife's ire, a 1991 B250 (long) RamVan on CL for cheap ($350!). Runs great, looks like a bag of *****. Peeling paint, minor rust. Engine and trans are solid, though!
the main problem was that the front suspension was a mess. I needed to replace an upper control arm (ds), ball joints, shocks, sway bar end links, etc. Looks like it had been parked in seawater for a year. Oh yeah, the entire upper control ARM had to be replaced - the whole thing. Why? Yeah, it had rusted through at the rearmost bolt. You heard me right - it had separated from the rearmost bushing eye. I've seen some rusty stuff before but that took the cake.
Anyhow, I've been Land Cruiser (hence the name) guy for years and finally sold my last 40 (kids). I owned a 77 Tradesman in college (total shaggin wagon) ago and so I figure this van can pull double-duty as a work hauler and family (minus the wife - she refuses to get near it) camper, but...
It needs four wheel drive.
And I need a project.
Judging from my trip to the end of the Internet and back, i'm not the only one lamenting the general dearth of information/parts/interest in a kit of any sort for this application. The consensus seems to be that it's a complete waste of time and next to impossible without copious amounts of money and general lack of good sense.
But, after staring at it for a long time i'm thinking it cant be that hard. (famous last words, right?)
So, i need you all to tell me how wrong and nuts I am, if i am…
I want to run 33's. So i'm not going for a ton of lift. SO, here's the plan:
1. source complete front axle. Make sure the gears are the same and pumpkin is offset to the drivers side. Looks like the 73-79 Fords had a 66" WMS measurement and a drivers side offset…66 is probably about right for the width.
2. Remove (torch) off all the front end brackets, etc. Only issue i can see here is that the front crossmember supports the engine, too. So I'll add some bumpstops to stop any contact - even though i plan on using fairly flat springs, I doubt it'll articulate enough to make contact.
3. Postion the axle under the van and, using a plumb bob, position the axle in the center of the wheel arch. (I may have to reposition the perches to align with the frame, but lets assume i've done that and the spring hangers are built for the rears.)
4. Fack rear spring hangers in place. measure the distance from end of the frame to end of the spring. This will be the length of my frame extensions, which, judging from the snubbed dodge front end, i assume with be necessary.
5.Fabricate front frame extensions, permanent rear spring hangers. (sleeve tube stock, 1/4" plate lots of bolts and welds, etc. Obviously safety and accuracy is a priority, so I'll model all the parts in Inventor before i have them laser cut). I plan on building a front bumper for this and integrate the suspension design into it.
6. Sort the steering out. Double steering arm may be in order. We'll see. There are a ton of arms our there for the dana 44 that i'm sure I can have reamed to the proper dimension to accept the Dodge TRE's. AS the current setup is IFS, I figure the entire steering setup will get redesigned. there's currently an idler arm and center pivot, which will all go away in favor of a simple push-pull setup. (box drives steering rod to passenger side, which drive tie rod to driver. Drop pitman arm? probably) Again, i can't see this being terribly difficult so far, just time consuming.
7. once this is all set up, i'll add the shock towers (F250?) to the frame and shock tabs to the D44. They'll likely sit at the axle centerline.
8. Now to the rear. I want a low lift, so i'll probably just level it out so it's even with the front with some 2" lift springs and level it as need be with (ugh) blocks. I know, but i can't imagine they'll be taller than an 1" or so.
9. Source a drivers side drop 205 or dana 300. Ford made a drivers drop 205, i know. I'd like to use off the shelf parts as much as possible, to make replacement that mush easier. So if i get a ford front axle and t-case, so much the better. I'm sure if i poke around enough i'll find a 300 flip kit. I'll need a clocking ring to get the t-case output and pinion flange to line up a little better. They maybe be off by a bit, but that's not a big deal. I've seen a lot worse.
I haven"t decided whether or not to use a divorced setup or mated. Divorced sounds easier, but if i can find a 727/205 or 300 combo i'll use that. I considered swapping out the 727 for a 518 (727 with OD) but the OD os so tall on the 518 (basically a 727 with an OD unit) at .69, i think that the trans would hunt with the 318 and big tires. So, i'll just stick with the 318. At 171K it shifts well, but I'll be it could stand to be refreshed soon. For now, a fluid change will suffice. Once everything is up i'll find/fab a crossmember, measure for the driveshafts, and have them built. I *might* get lucky with having the truck driveshaft lengthened/shortened, we'll see. Thoughts?
I'll have to fabricate the linkage for the t-case, but after some head scratching and some knuckle banging, I bet I can get the truck linkage to work.
Looking at the exhaust i don't think it'll be in the way, but it's pretty straightforward if i have to move it.
So, besides being a ton of work, are there any obvious flaws in my plan?
Once the suspension is sorted i'll move on to the interior. that's another can of worms entirely. Where the H#ll do i find a pop top for one of these???
TIA
Rob
I'm a new poster, but have been lurking for years. I finally got a van that i can build into a multi-purpose work/play truck (so my Denali stops getting the crap beat out of it.) I'll use it during the week for taking large projects (i own a sign company) to clients, and on the weekend/vacations for trips. I'd like to build it like a Weekender. Enough room for 6 to ride and sleep comfortably, with room for gear. It's huge - i don't see it being an issue.
So, to whit I found and purchased, much to my wife's ire, a 1991 B250 (long) RamVan on CL for cheap ($350!). Runs great, looks like a bag of *****. Peeling paint, minor rust. Engine and trans are solid, though!
the main problem was that the front suspension was a mess. I needed to replace an upper control arm (ds), ball joints, shocks, sway bar end links, etc. Looks like it had been parked in seawater for a year. Oh yeah, the entire upper control ARM had to be replaced - the whole thing. Why? Yeah, it had rusted through at the rearmost bolt. You heard me right - it had separated from the rearmost bushing eye. I've seen some rusty stuff before but that took the cake.
Anyhow, I've been Land Cruiser (hence the name) guy for years and finally sold my last 40 (kids). I owned a 77 Tradesman in college (total shaggin wagon) ago and so I figure this van can pull double-duty as a work hauler and family (minus the wife - she refuses to get near it) camper, but...
It needs four wheel drive.
And I need a project.
Judging from my trip to the end of the Internet and back, i'm not the only one lamenting the general dearth of information/parts/interest in a kit of any sort for this application. The consensus seems to be that it's a complete waste of time and next to impossible without copious amounts of money and general lack of good sense.
But, after staring at it for a long time i'm thinking it cant be that hard. (famous last words, right?)
So, i need you all to tell me how wrong and nuts I am, if i am…
I want to run 33's. So i'm not going for a ton of lift. SO, here's the plan:
1. source complete front axle. Make sure the gears are the same and pumpkin is offset to the drivers side. Looks like the 73-79 Fords had a 66" WMS measurement and a drivers side offset…66 is probably about right for the width.
2. Remove (torch) off all the front end brackets, etc. Only issue i can see here is that the front crossmember supports the engine, too. So I'll add some bumpstops to stop any contact - even though i plan on using fairly flat springs, I doubt it'll articulate enough to make contact.
3. Postion the axle under the van and, using a plumb bob, position the axle in the center of the wheel arch. (I may have to reposition the perches to align with the frame, but lets assume i've done that and the spring hangers are built for the rears.)
4. Fack rear spring hangers in place. measure the distance from end of the frame to end of the spring. This will be the length of my frame extensions, which, judging from the snubbed dodge front end, i assume with be necessary.
5.Fabricate front frame extensions, permanent rear spring hangers. (sleeve tube stock, 1/4" plate lots of bolts and welds, etc. Obviously safety and accuracy is a priority, so I'll model all the parts in Inventor before i have them laser cut). I plan on building a front bumper for this and integrate the suspension design into it.
6. Sort the steering out. Double steering arm may be in order. We'll see. There are a ton of arms our there for the dana 44 that i'm sure I can have reamed to the proper dimension to accept the Dodge TRE's. AS the current setup is IFS, I figure the entire steering setup will get redesigned. there's currently an idler arm and center pivot, which will all go away in favor of a simple push-pull setup. (box drives steering rod to passenger side, which drive tie rod to driver. Drop pitman arm? probably) Again, i can't see this being terribly difficult so far, just time consuming.
7. once this is all set up, i'll add the shock towers (F250?) to the frame and shock tabs to the D44. They'll likely sit at the axle centerline.
8. Now to the rear. I want a low lift, so i'll probably just level it out so it's even with the front with some 2" lift springs and level it as need be with (ugh) blocks. I know, but i can't imagine they'll be taller than an 1" or so.
9. Source a drivers side drop 205 or dana 300. Ford made a drivers drop 205, i know. I'd like to use off the shelf parts as much as possible, to make replacement that mush easier. So if i get a ford front axle and t-case, so much the better. I'm sure if i poke around enough i'll find a 300 flip kit. I'll need a clocking ring to get the t-case output and pinion flange to line up a little better. They maybe be off by a bit, but that's not a big deal. I've seen a lot worse.
I haven"t decided whether or not to use a divorced setup or mated. Divorced sounds easier, but if i can find a 727/205 or 300 combo i'll use that. I considered swapping out the 727 for a 518 (727 with OD) but the OD os so tall on the 518 (basically a 727 with an OD unit) at .69, i think that the trans would hunt with the 318 and big tires. So, i'll just stick with the 318. At 171K it shifts well, but I'll be it could stand to be refreshed soon. For now, a fluid change will suffice. Once everything is up i'll find/fab a crossmember, measure for the driveshafts, and have them built. I *might* get lucky with having the truck driveshaft lengthened/shortened, we'll see. Thoughts?
I'll have to fabricate the linkage for the t-case, but after some head scratching and some knuckle banging, I bet I can get the truck linkage to work.
Looking at the exhaust i don't think it'll be in the way, but it's pretty straightforward if i have to move it.
So, besides being a ton of work, are there any obvious flaws in my plan?
Once the suspension is sorted i'll move on to the interior. that's another can of worms entirely. Where the H#ll do i find a pop top for one of these???
TIA
Rob
