1st gen trucks for expeditions?

[Martinjmpr]

Speaking of 1st gen trucks, I was bored and on Craigslist this morning and saw at least half a dozen 1st and 2nd gen trucks and 1st gen 4runners for sale, some for under $1000. Most were running, although they all needed some work.

Still, could make a nice platform for someone with the time and the knowledge. I was honestly surprised that there were that many out there. We're talking about a vehicle that's almost 30 years old!

 

[Clay]

I got mine three weeks ago for $600 dollars. It needed a clutch master cylinder that was $40, an exhaust manifold gasket for $20 and $180 dollars for smog and registration. Other than that I bought a camper shell for $50 and a used set of 33" Goodyear MT/R tires for $250 and the thing is doing pretty good for my $1140 investment. That was two months of payments on my Tacoma!

If you notched the frame, then put the half tube of pipe in there and plated from the firewall to the front cross-member would that be strong enough in your opinion? I can see no other way around it, to be honest. I wish I could run hydro assist with the stock steering, but having a drag link 24" long is just not OK. Every time you go over a bump the steering wheel goes back and forth.

 

[ntsqd]

Does it still have the link btwn the axle and the front x-member?
If it does, does it have that silly sleave "articulation" mod done to it?
What condition are the link bushings in?
With little to no lift the stock steering isn't too bad, and I say that with a road racing background. You'll never confuse the two, but......

The plating of the frame wouldn't add much more than weight. In bending on a horizontal plane what matters is the top & bottom sections of the frame rails. All the sides do is keep them the same distance apart. Think of an "I" beam and how they are normally used. The web does nothing except act as a spacer. It's the uninterrupted top & bottom flanges that do all of the work.

 

[Clay]

So what if I plate the top and the bottom? There's many, many reasons to go with crossover steering, it's worth it to figure it out. J-arms are very weak.

 

[ntsqd]

Though I'm working toward X-over I've yet to break my J-arm. I do not rock crawl very often. Might make the difference.

If you have a clearance notch in the bottom of the frame rail, where would you plate it?
Only option I see there would be to re-config either the box placement or the frame design (or both) and orient things such that the drag link is now going through a hole in the "web" of the frame rather than thru a notch in the bottom of it. I'm not sure that's possible without reducing up travel and putting the drag link really close to the oil pan. Would also increase the angle of the drag link, which will increase bump steer.
Possible that spacing the box away from the frame would buy right turn pitman arm clearance while keeping it tucked up away from the spring. That opens a different can of worms, but I'm sure that there is no simple solution or Toyota would have done that instead of what they did.

I know I'll be faced with these decisions too, I just haven't reached that point yet.

 

[Clay]

The more that I look at it, the more it looks like the oil pan is going to be the main problem. If I use flat steering arms and a flat pitman arm I think that it will clear the frame fairly well U can't really notch the oil pan

I've broken one and seen many broken on the trail. Just because you don't rock crawl doesn't mean it's not a weak point that will eventually fail. I'd rather not take the chance.

 

[ntsqd]

No, I know it's a failure mode that I'd rather not deal with. I also think mine is starting to fail as there is something slightly random in the whole system. Steering wheel isn't always in the exact same spot when going straight.

I'll have to review the tall deck sitting on my driveway, but I think some mods can be done to the oil pan. What I don't know is exactly where the oil pump pick-up is. That is the most likely thing to interfere. Supposedly the IFS pan (& pick-up) is closer to the block in that region. Whether either or both (modified IFS pan) is worth the effort or not is the $64 question.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'll have to review the tall deck sitting on my driveway, but I think some mods can be done to the oil pan. What I don't know is exactly where the oil pump pick-up is. That is the most likely thing to interfere. Supposedly the IFS pan (& pick-up) is closer to the block in that region. Whether either or both (modified IFS pan) is worth the effort or not is the $64 question.

How about a Celica? This has a front sump, but it's not as deep as the pan on a 22R 4WD. I don't know, but maybe the 2WD pickup pan would work, too. I've never compared all options next to one another, but depending on where you need clearance my guess is the Celica pan is the only option significantly different than what you have. If you look at the baffle in the sump, the oil pickup screen sits under that.

12101-39325 (Celica 21R pan)
12101-35011 (Celica 22R-E pan)

15104-37010 (Celica pickup)

Celica 22R-E pan:
View attachment 12954

FWIW, the 12101-35040 pan:
View attachment 12955

 

[Clay]

After the holiday present spoiling that I have to dole out I plan to tackle this. The only way is to sit there with it in front of you, then you will make it work. Luckily high-steer stuff is fairly easy to come by and fairly easy to re-sell if need be. I'm sure it will work out.....

 

[ntsqd]

I have a 2wd pan for future comparo, but have yet to do that. The thing I like about the SA pan is the deep sump. Gets the oil further away from the rotating bits and, given it's shape, offers good off camber oil pressure w/o resorting to gates & baffles.
In the past I've built 10-15 various oil pans. Most were circle track or road racing applications. The most challenging, fitment-wise, was a Datsun 510 (rear sump chassis) that got a Nissan KA series engine (front sump). They're really not that big a deal though they do tend to be time consuming.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I have a 2wd pan for future comparo, but have yet to do that. The thing I like about the SA pan is the deep sump. Gets the oil further away from the rotating bits and, given it's shape, offers good off camber oil pressure w/o resorting to gates & baffles.
In the past I've built 10-15 various oil pans. Most were circle track or road racing applications. The most challenging, fitment-wise, was a Datsun 510 (rear sump chassis) that got a Nissan KA series engine (front sump). They're really not that big a deal though they do tend to be time consuming.

I'm trying to figure out the differences, but the EPC lists the same oil pan for 08/88 and later production for both RHD and LHD, IFS and live beam axles for the 22R. All the NATO, US and JDM 4WD 22R blocks got Toyota part number 12101-35040 on SR5, DLX and base models. The 20R and 84-07/88 engines might have a different pan in the system, I'm looking into that.

 

[ntsqd]

Mine's an '84 so I fall into that as yet unkwn pan. I'd characterize it as having a deeper sump than the IFS pan that is more rearward and smaller in the X & Y dims.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Mine's an '84 so I fall into that as yet unkwn pan. I'd characterize it as having a deeper sump than the IFS pan that is more rearward and smaller in the X & Y dims.

OK, looks like the 08/83-08/84 22R oil pan is 12101-39285 and 08/84-01/85 is 12101-35030, both of which are now superseded in the parts system with 12101-35040. The -35040 number is listed as the originally installed pan for all 22R trucks 01/85 and later. I don't have numbers handy for the 20R and very early 22R, basically anything previous to 08/83 production. The EPC this is based on is the 2002 version, which I guess doesn't list the 20R stuff. I have access to a 1998 EPC version, but just not readily today. Anyway, it looks like after mid-year 1985 Toyota does not distinguish IFS from solid axle. The same pan is listed on all Japanese, US and NATO 4WD trucks up until 1994 and 1995 (the parts catalog years differ slightly between Hilux and 4Runner).

Also my previous post was a little wrong, so I edited it. I don't have a good image of the 2WD pan.

This is 12101-39285:
View attachment 12958

This is 12101-35030:
View attachment 12959

 

[Clay]

If it would help any I could take a picture of mine. It looks very similar if not the same as those two in your pictures, with the steps in them like that. It looks to me like that middle step is right where the drag link needs to go across, so I will have to try and move everything forward to clear it. A couple of inches of lift may be in the future anyways.

So another couple questions for you all. Will 22R or RE accessories fit on a 20R motor? Can I put an AC pump off of a fuel injected motor on my 20R? How about the power steering pump, is there a difference in them through out the years?