2003 Suburban 1500 Pop Top Conversion
- Thread starter boll_rig
- Start date
boll_rig
Adventurer
The idea was for that to be a walk space and hopefully not a gear junk pile.. but we'll see how that actually goes..
Just ordered up some new rear springs:
http://www.strutmasters.com/product...ar-air-suspension-conversion-kit-2wd-and-4wd/
Called strutmaster and they said that the H2 springs would actually fair much worse due to the extra weight on the suburban. Didn't get the exact technical specs of each but I think these are similar in overall size. They say they will keep the factory ride height. However, I assume my springs have dampened 1-1.5 inches by now (with the added weight) so just doing new springs would give me that much more height in theory. Then with keeping my 1" spacer I may be looking at 2-2.5" above factory ride height. Or about 1-1.5" above where I'm at now. Just a guess, but might keep my rear spacer and see how high the back sits. Hopefully I don't have a crazy rake..
In terms of the shocks included in the package I'm up in the air. They said there was no way possible to sell me just the springs (didn't make any sense).. So either I throw the shocks in or try and sell them and get all new Bilsteins. Had a shop drive my truck and they think all four Ranchos are shot. Kind of crazy because its only been 2-3 years.
Just ordered new moog inner and outer tie rods (right inner was definitely loose) and the Energy Suspension stabilizer bar and bushings as well as the Doorman front bump stops. Going to install them all myself in a week or two when I have some time, should make a nice difference to the ride. Seems fairly straightforward.
Also recently found a used set of Duratrac 265/75/16s about 9/16th tread left for 280 for all four. Not too bad. Its a nice middle ground between my 31 and the 33. Excited to get them on.
Hopefully get some photos up soon.
Just ordered up some new rear springs:
http://www.strutmasters.com/product...ar-air-suspension-conversion-kit-2wd-and-4wd/
Called strutmaster and they said that the H2 springs would actually fair much worse due to the extra weight on the suburban. Didn't get the exact technical specs of each but I think these are similar in overall size. They say they will keep the factory ride height. However, I assume my springs have dampened 1-1.5 inches by now (with the added weight) so just doing new springs would give me that much more height in theory. Then with keeping my 1" spacer I may be looking at 2-2.5" above factory ride height. Or about 1-1.5" above where I'm at now. Just a guess, but might keep my rear spacer and see how high the back sits. Hopefully I don't have a crazy rake..
In terms of the shocks included in the package I'm up in the air. They said there was no way possible to sell me just the springs (didn't make any sense).. So either I throw the shocks in or try and sell them and get all new Bilsteins. Had a shop drive my truck and they think all four Ranchos are shot. Kind of crazy because its only been 2-3 years.
Just ordered new moog inner and outer tie rods (right inner was definitely loose) and the Energy Suspension stabilizer bar and bushings as well as the Doorman front bump stops. Going to install them all myself in a week or two when I have some time, should make a nice difference to the ride. Seems fairly straightforward.
Also recently found a used set of Duratrac 265/75/16s about 9/16th tread left for 280 for all four. Not too bad. Its a nice middle ground between my 31 and the 33. Excited to get them on.
Hopefully get some photos up soon.
swissarmychainsaw
New member
Did you get the lift mech from Colorado Camper Vans? I just reached out to them but the don't seem interested in selling a DIY kit anymore. Any tips there?
boll_rig
Adventurer
Doesn't surprise me, not sure they really do "kits," mine was kind of an anomaly, and I know they made almost nothing off helping me out with the actuator support welds, cross members, and canvas.
When I originally met with Derrek he thought I might be having them do an entire custom job. This was before their company blew up, maybe 2-3 years ago. We chatted for an hour or two at his shop about it. I told him I'd read all his old builds on here and was really inspired to try my own and I think he just wanted to help me out, knowing I couldn't afford for them to do it. So we agreed on a custom cross hinge design for the suburban and some rough estimates and I got to working on my wood (now fiberglass) topper that took about an entire year to make.
Not sure about where you should go from here other than to go meet with him in person. Also see you're in San Fran? What kind of vehicle are you working with, what was your plan/intention?
Happy to discuss the basic mechanics of the lifts, actuators used, general sizes of welded cross supports etc. if you're interested. This job could be done again with some help from what I learned, some welding skills and someone to sew a ******t ton of canvas.
Last edited:
Bear in NM
Adventurer
Boll,
I am surprised that Strutmaster will not sell you springs, sans shocks. I was able to get the Hummer springs without shocks. I did mention to them that their webpage was pretty much kludge, with regard to part numbers or searching in any way not vehicle specific. The gal I spoke with said she knew that, and they were working on it.
It does look like your new springs are suburban specific, by reading their description. As we have discussed in Stryders thread, the Hummer springs in my Avalanche stiffened my rear up significantly. But I do not have the weight you do, so perhaps they are correct. I added airbags, so I can stiffen for trailering, but you are in a trickier position needing the stiffness 24-7. Will be interesting to see how you fare with those.
As we have discussed in IM, we are all at a bit of a loss trying to understand shocks. My 4 Rancho 9000's did not make two years. I think my fronts were wrecked by the 2" extension saddles being too long for the keys I installed. Not sure. But I have no reason for the rears also failing, as my stock old springs and one inch spacer left me only a little above stock. One of the rear Ranchos actually blew a seal, and oil poured out when removing.
I have only had my Bilsteins on crappy roads several times, and 4 wheeling twice, but so far so good. I wish you well on your decisions, as the waters sure are muddy here.
Craig
I am surprised that Strutmaster will not sell you springs, sans shocks. I was able to get the Hummer springs without shocks. I did mention to them that their webpage was pretty much kludge, with regard to part numbers or searching in any way not vehicle specific. The gal I spoke with said she knew that, and they were working on it.
It does look like your new springs are suburban specific, by reading their description. As we have discussed in Stryders thread, the Hummer springs in my Avalanche stiffened my rear up significantly. But I do not have the weight you do, so perhaps they are correct. I added airbags, so I can stiffen for trailering, but you are in a trickier position needing the stiffness 24-7. Will be interesting to see how you fare with those.
As we have discussed in IM, we are all at a bit of a loss trying to understand shocks. My 4 Rancho 9000's did not make two years. I think my fronts were wrecked by the 2" extension saddles being too long for the keys I installed. Not sure. But I have no reason for the rears also failing, as my stock old springs and one inch spacer left me only a little above stock. One of the rear Ranchos actually blew a seal, and oil poured out when removing.
I have only had my Bilsteins on crappy roads several times, and 4 wheeling twice, but so far so good. I wish you well on your decisions, as the waters sure are muddy here.
Craig
rayra
Expedition Leader
Probably find that their shock fitment is driven by GMT800 1500/2500 physical fit and not the weight difference. Subs weigh ~6000#. Pickups 4400#? We try and drive and derb them like pickups, that will kill 'truck' shocks in a hurry. Plus we put a lot more meat and gear in a Sub, generally, increasing the difference in sprung weight.
I'd think boll would do fine with the new springs. Lots of folks try to improve their aged rides with just shocks, without replacing or upgrading worn out torsion and coil springs. The shocks wind up taking a greater portion of the load and for a short while feel great. Until they prematurely fail under the increased load.
/I have a theory: Dinosaurs are small at the front, big in the middle and small at the other end
I'd think boll would do fine with the new springs. Lots of folks try to improve their aged rides with just shocks, without replacing or upgrading worn out torsion and coil springs. The shocks wind up taking a greater portion of the load and for a short while feel great. Until they prematurely fail under the increased load.
/I have a theory: Dinosaurs are small at the front, big in the middle and small at the other end
boll_rig
Adventurer
Thanks Craig, sure is a little tricky trying to nail down exactly what one needs for their individual vehicle. At this point I think I'm going to just throw their shocks on and see how it differs. Regardless, I talked to three different people from Strutmasters including a supervisor and they wouldn't budge on it, I wasn't thrilled.
Hoping they are right and these springs are actually made for the extra weight over the H2. And hoping you are right Rayra that I'll save these new shocks due to the springs.
Mounted my "new" tires today. 265/75/16 Duratrac's with about 65% tread left. Picked them up for $280 on Letgo. Also found a BFG KO low tread spare of the same size for $10 and mounted that. And actually sold my 4 old tires for $100 on the spot at the tire shop (craigslist.) The shop charged $75 for the swap. Not too bad all said and done $265
Before
After
Really think the 265/75/16 is a nice size. Everybody is either going with their stock 31s or moving up to 33s but the Duratrac 32" seems like a nice intermediate step, looks good, and is just slightly louder than my old KOs.
Hoping they are right and these springs are actually made for the extra weight over the H2. And hoping you are right Rayra that I'll save these new shocks due to the springs.
Mounted my "new" tires today. 265/75/16 Duratrac's with about 65% tread left. Picked them up for $280 on Letgo. Also found a BFG KO low tread spare of the same size for $10 and mounted that. And actually sold my 4 old tires for $100 on the spot at the tire shop (craigslist.) The shop charged $75 for the swap. Not too bad all said and done $265
Before
After
Really think the 265/75/16 is a nice size. Everybody is either going with their stock 31s or moving up to 33s but the Duratrac 32" seems like a nice intermediate step, looks good, and is just slightly louder than my old KOs.
Last edited:
Bear in NM
Adventurer
Rayra, you trying to say my '02 is a dinosaur ;^) Yep, new springs are a good thing. My problem is that this is my first big ride, and I have little to compare, as to how soft and cushy things should feel. My Jeep was a bone rattler, and the after market springs in my work Tacoma are really stiff. I am liking the Eibach's, so far. The whole point of getting the Av after my Jeep got creamed by a drunk driver was to have a capable, and comfy ride. I am pretty sure the Hummer eibach's are a little better mannered than cramming stock H2's in my Av. But I now have air bags to fall back on for tongue load.
Boll, your rig is looking sharp. As a point of reference, the KO2's that I have on my Av (265-75-16) are stunningly well behaved, on road. No noise at all, compared to the old AT, Mud Terrain or KO. No complaints off road, or in snow, either. I put a pair on my extreme trailer, and now on my cargo conversion. BFG likes me....
And that pop top of yours, well, that is a thing of beauty. I had been through your build last year, but went through it again this morning. Completely inspirational. You know, when you start a project, and get it good enough. I try and not do that, but sometimes it happens.
Craig
Boll, your rig is looking sharp. As a point of reference, the KO2's that I have on my Av (265-75-16) are stunningly well behaved, on road. No noise at all, compared to the old AT, Mud Terrain or KO. No complaints off road, or in snow, either. I put a pair on my extreme trailer, and now on my cargo conversion. BFG likes me....
And that pop top of yours, well, that is a thing of beauty. I had been through your build last year, but went through it again this morning. Completely inspirational. You know, when you start a project, and get it good enough. I try and not do that, but sometimes it happens.
Craig
rayra
Expedition Leader
no, no, I was just saying I might have a silly theory.
And just that I think new rear coils of any type would be a Good Thing on these older Suburbans. If they've been loaded at all over their ~12-15yrs, new springs would have to be an improvement. And the sprung weight - empty - is enough for them to function well. Me being part Scots, well, I might go for some factory / Moog replacements, maybe by the end of the year. Got other things to do / add first and right now my Sub is riding pretty nice. Speaking of that I still haven't replaced my beat up rear bump stops. But I don't seem to be striking them much since I trimmed off their crumbling end segments.
eta AC DElco 'Pro' Heavy duty rear coil springs are $68 for a pair, Moog Heavy Duty, $49 a pair, at rockauto. And I've already had mine out twice, so swapping some new ones in will be a piece of cake.
I think the only true aftermarket suspension part I'm considering is some Spohn boxed rear lower control arms ($189 for the pair). Those stamped ones we have bend if you look at them funny and I know some of the dry stream beds and rock fields I fart around in, I'll wind up bending the crap out of one. Factory replacements are cheap and easy to install, I might just buy one new one and keep it in my storage drawers. If I ever start driving it off-road enough to warrant it. My plans keep getting screwed by other factors.
http://www.spohn.net/shop/2000-2006...Tahoe-Yukon-Avalanche-Escalade-Hummer-H2.html
Moog factory replacement is only $26
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5792355&cc=1380327&jsn=646
And just that I think new rear coils of any type would be a Good Thing on these older Suburbans. If they've been loaded at all over their ~12-15yrs, new springs would have to be an improvement. And the sprung weight - empty - is enough for them to function well. Me being part Scots, well, I might go for some factory / Moog replacements, maybe by the end of the year. Got other things to do / add first and right now my Sub is riding pretty nice. Speaking of that I still haven't replaced my beat up rear bump stops. But I don't seem to be striking them much since I trimmed off their crumbling end segments.
eta AC DElco 'Pro' Heavy duty rear coil springs are $68 for a pair, Moog Heavy Duty, $49 a pair, at rockauto. And I've already had mine out twice, so swapping some new ones in will be a piece of cake.
I think the only true aftermarket suspension part I'm considering is some Spohn boxed rear lower control arms ($189 for the pair). Those stamped ones we have bend if you look at them funny and I know some of the dry stream beds and rock fields I fart around in, I'll wind up bending the crap out of one. Factory replacements are cheap and easy to install, I might just buy one new one and keep it in my storage drawers. If I ever start driving it off-road enough to warrant it. My plans keep getting screwed by other factors.
http://www.spohn.net/shop/2000-2006...Tahoe-Yukon-Avalanche-Escalade-Hummer-H2.html
Moog factory replacement is only $26
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5792355&cc=1380327&jsn=646
Last edited:
Bear in NM
Adventurer
Rayra, I was just funnin'. I love my'02, and while I could have purchased a newer year, I specifically wanted the '02 for the cladding and few other items that were only found on that year. The problem all of us have in buying older vehicles is sometimes what needs to be replaced, due to excessive wear. Many things are obvious. Springs, not so much, as you noted. Mine is finally riding and loading properly, I think. If the new shocks hold up, I will be over that hurdle.
Craig
Craig
As many have previously stated, your pop top is a work of art. Exactly like i envision building for my 83 burb. Is there anything you would do differently? How did you go about loading and removing the top during construction? I'll be building one in the near future, and doing so by myself.
Again, great job on the build. I look forward to reading about all your trips!
Again, great job on the build. I look forward to reading about all your trips!
boll_rig
Adventurer
I'm actually certain that had I gone KO2's they would have been quieter than the Duratrac's, and possibly better in snow too, however I really wanted a C load range tire for less weight. E seemed unnecessary and I think thats the only option for KO2 265/75/16 tire, but I could be wrong.
Also appreciate the kind words, Craig, honestly you'll have to take a close up look in person... little bit of got it good enough going on when you start looking hah.
Skid, honestly the only thing I'd do differently is put a fan in up there. However, if its too hot in the canopy i just move down one level to the lower bed haha. Cant think of much else I would change. Maybe leave myself more space for the canvas between the lifts and the topper.. Maybe would have made the topper an inch higher to leave sleeping bag on top of bed. But overall nothing jumps out as crucial to change or do differently.
As for moving it I just asked friends and my brother to help me. Two people could do it carefully, I think it only ended up weighing 150-175 pounds all said and done. Think we had four people for the final moves. I'd say spend a lot of time planning and doing mock ups. Would be so rad to see one on an 83! keep us updated.
chilliwak
Expedition Leader
Thanks Craig, sure is a little tricky trying to nail down exactly what one needs for their individual vehicle. At this point I think I'm going to just throw their shocks on and see how it differs. Regardless, I talked to three different people from Strutmasters including a supervisor and they wouldn't budge on it, I wasn't thrilled.
Hoping they are right and these springs are actually made for the extra weight over the H2. And hoping you are right Rayra that I'll save these new shocks due to the springs.
Mounted my "new" tires today. 265/75/16 Duratrac's with about 65% tread left. Picked them up for $280 on Letgo. Also found a BFG KO low tread spare of the same size for $10 and mounted that. And actually sold my 4 old tires for $100 on the spot at the tire shop (craigslist.) The shop charged $75 for the swap. Not too bad all said and done $265
Before
After
Really think the 265/75/16 is a nice size. Everybody is either going with their stock 31s or moving up to 33s but the Duratrac 32" seems like a nice intermediate step, looks good, and is just slightly louder than my old KOs.
I really like the suburban Boll! You might want to go with Bilsteins for shocks next time and if you want to go new springs i would reccomend BDS. I have them on both my rigs and love them. Best garantee in the market and they have a military wrap. Ya got to love it. Keep posting pics of your fine rig and congrats on the new tire score. Cheers, Chilli...
bald.eagle
Observer
Hey Boll, any chance you have a video of the pop top in action? How's the stability with it raised?
Racking my brain to figure out the best setup for our family of 5. I've been brainstorming an idea of building a pop-top into a cargo trailer (6x10 or 6x12). That would give me room up top to do a double loft bed at one end and a single on the other, with a convertible couch/bed area down below. A single SUV or van base camp for 5 people just isn't realistic, at least not with a vehicle that I have to drive daily. A converted cargo trailer would give us the ability to set up camp and still use the truck around the area.
Me and the wife have made a goal to really get some miles under us these next few years while the kids are still young (9,6,4), just gotta figure out the most efficient way to do it.
Racking my brain to figure out the best setup for our family of 5. I've been brainstorming an idea of building a pop-top into a cargo trailer (6x10 or 6x12). That would give me room up top to do a double loft bed at one end and a single on the other, with a convertible couch/bed area down below. A single SUV or van base camp for 5 people just isn't realistic, at least not with a vehicle that I have to drive daily. A converted cargo trailer would give us the ability to set up camp and still use the truck around the area.
Me and the wife have made a goal to really get some miles under us these next few years while the kids are still young (9,6,4), just gotta figure out the most efficient way to do it.