2003 Suburban 1500 Pop Top Conversion

[rayra]

The scissor lift is an interesting idea, and/but it seems too narrow a base when lifted, to me. What if you've got a cargo load on the roof? Can the design take the strain of an unbalanced load / load not centered over the scissor?

White would be the reasonable thing to do. I'm about to put a solid deck within the roof rack of my Sub, primarily to keep the sun off the roof skin. But even so, I'm thinking about painting it black anyway because I'm trying to keep my mods on this vehicle subdued / unnoticeable. So white is right out. Have to count on the air gap between deck and roof proper to do the job. I might try some of that insulating paint that pappawheely was trying, though. I'm as much worried about the sun heat effects on the black-painted plywood, as I am tired of the oven-like heat in my black Suburban in the SoCal summers.

 

[boll_rig]

I actually agonized for quite a while about color. The top I have was actually tan originally. My first plan was to go all black. I was thinking silver stickers, and black top.

However, in thinking it over, I am personally glad I went white. At the end of the day, I built this for family fun. If it gets hot, that's no fun. Also I like the fact that I just kinda "owned" the reality that I have a huge, nonfactory thing on the roof.

For me, making it match too much wouldn't have been as good.

For the record, I also thought hard about silver or gray. But I figured the Germans painted most of them white for a reason.

DB, I was wondering what your thoughts were on your white roof. Germans went white for a reason, Im just trying to see if I can outsmart them here. I got some info that might be helpful that i'll elaborate on.


But first;
Rayra, as usual yes you are right the scissor lift cross bars are just about too close together when raised. As I said because I swapped out the 12in actuators for the 18in stroke, the crossbar distance shrank from 32.5 to 27.4" Now thats not a huge difference but its concerning. However the height difference is really making me do anything I can to make it work. 12" actuator had a raised height of 33.5" and 18" gets it to 38.3" now that doesnt seem like a whole lot but for someone who is almost 6'3" it makes all the difference especially when you factor in bed height and headliner/covering the bottom of roof. I can sit up straight and crawl through the space a lot easier than about 30 inches.

But in terms of your load question I cannot really have a hugely unbalanced load you are correct. But with my racks i should be able to put everything fairly centered above the scissor. The things uncentered would be a solar panel/LEDs on the front, and some LED's on the back, all which dont weigh a ton. And to help the problem is where the struts come in, in all four corners. Just to state, on average, I should have no more than 100lbs on the roof, if that. Id say I'm more concerned with making the height work than worrying about loads when popped. However, I'm most concerned right now with putting load on the vehicle while driving bumpy roads/off road trails and how to properly reinforce the roof for that concern so if you guys have any comments on my plan to finish the reinforcement inside as I have described with the ply and welded steel L brackets, I'd love to hear them.

Back to the coloring problem. I just spent a few minutes on the phone withe LINE X guy here in boulder and he said that there is so little heat absorption in the product that he can go lay in his sprayed black bed in the middle of a hot summer day and it will be very close to ambient temperature.. So does anyone have any experience with this stuff? He was saying that even black doesn't heat up and has incredible UV protection. Black paint on a car and black LineX are two different worlds he said one heats and one doesn't.

Like you said Rayra you're trying to keep mods unnoticed, just as I am trying to match. Would you consider black LineX if it truly doesnt absorb heat, besides the obvious elephant of cost?

 

[rayra]

I don't see why not. Well applied, the stuff looks fine. Seen a lot of vehicles with rocker panels done with it, I think it looks good for what it is and the purpose it serves. As for black and heat, well let's just say it won't be any hotter than black paint, anyway.

The added benefit of a bit of thickness of bed coating is the sound deadening, too. And on that, what plans do you have for finishing the interior surface after all the glasswork is done?
In my comm forum topic about adding antenna wiring, I did a bunch of sound-deadening work using peel and stick butyl rubber window flashing (poor man's DynaMat), particularly on the rear wheel wells. It really made a huge difference. Adding a layer inside your glass shell would do likewise, without adding too much weight. info and pics here -
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ling-and-heavy-gage-power-lines-under-vehicle

Thinking about your scissor lift, I have another suggestion that might spread out your support widths but let you use the same actuators you already have. A sort of split scissor arrangement, there's probably a proper name for it but I don't know it. My idea would place the supports further towards the ends and could even result in a higher lift. And you could also add folding braces that unclip and swivel into a vertical position to reinforce the corners directly. To add stability in winds and with gear on top. And those same vertical corner braces can provide shape and support to your fabric sidewalls.

Some fiddling with the leg lengths should give you even more height and push the support points further towards the ends all at the same time.

If you start with the scissor legs anchored as far to the front and rear as possible, reaching to the contracted actuator and then put the actuator to full extension, my guesstimate is you'd get a lot of lift, at least as much as you have already, but in a more solid structural arrangement. With the total max available distance between potential anchor / pivot locations, and the lengths of your actuator fully closed and open, it's an easy math problem to figure out how much lift you'd get.

- Total length between anchor pivots, minus contracted length of the actuator, divided by 2 = length of your folding strut legs.
- Total length between anchor pivots, minus EXTENDED length of the actuator, divided by 2 = base of the right triangle (Side A). Length of legs is your hypotenuse (Side C)
- C squared minus A squared = B squared. Take the square root and that's half your lift height. x2 for total lift height.

As long as the struts when collapsed / closed are not parallel, the rig shouldn't bind, it should just unfold when driven.

 

[boll_rig]

Thanks for the info and thread on sound dampening/insulation. I have been thinking about different options to go and was thinking inch thick foam insulation anywhere I could get it, but perhaps i could add butyl rubber window flashing against the fiberglass underneath for even more. Ill check your thread out in full.

And what you have proposed here on splitting the hinges is very interesting! I just wonder whether I am willing and physically able to do that work myself and whether it will be worth it. No question it would handle load better but can I do it.. that i dont know about. The cutting of the cross bars, repositioning and remounting and everything would set me back a few weeks and I was attempting to finish by mid to late june for a 2 month summer trip. Would also cut into my window space a bit hah. Unfortunately I've already epoxied my two plywood boards down for the existing hinges but that doesn't rule it out just yet.

I believe you're right that it would actually be the same height when popped. Ive done out the math and tested it on the hinges, and no question more supportive. I'm going to mull this over and think about it, bounce the idea off a few friends. I will say you're pretty ingenuitive Rayra for I would not have seen this option.

 

[rayra]

Thx and you're welcome and I did not mean to add to your troubles by it. heh. The fab work ought not be too difficult and you pretty much have most of the pieces now. It could be done with a few flat plates / brackets and the tubing you've used, or a couple more pieces of EMT conduit. And not much expense, just (too) costly in time.
Yes, it sort of rules out a 'picture window', but you could do two narrow rectangles, high and low, such that your actuator isn't hanging out there. Your current scissor arrangement would also be in the window, for that matter. But that's just in passing. The real issue would be does changing the basic arrangement garner any more or much more height than what you already have arranged. You could add fold-down support legs at the corner with your current design. Something akin to the old school card table legs. Once erected by the actuator, you'd just drop them down to rest on the mounting frame.
Looking back ar your previous post with the scissor atop the vehicle, it looks like a lot of room already. I gather you are not trying to create a space you can stand up within. IIRC the Sub ceiling to cargo deck is 34?? 36"? at max and a couple inches shorter than that at the rear opening lip. With the height of your scissor as is you must be close to 60" already. I don't recall if you mentioned any plan for a sleeping / storage platform, but that would be what, 8-10"? So still at least 4' of headspace as you currently are. So it doesn't really make much sense to change the design. Not unless you intend to put a lot of gear on top.
I'm curious to know though if my design idea would give more height, or does it come out the same? It 'feels' like it ought to provide several more inches of lift, but that depends on a lot of measurements, leg lengths, actuator lengths open and closed, etc.

eta on noise insulation, the butyl, dynamat etc mostly attenuate the higher frequencies. Bass noise still comes thru. But the 2-3 layer overlap I put down in the rear sides and wheel wells of my Sub while I had open access REALLY deadened the road noise. When I first closed it all up the silence / attenuation was quite noticeable. And it's CHEAP. That butyl rubber window flashing is about 80cents / sq', FAR lower than Dynamat, the thinnest variety of which - on par with butyl rubber flashing - is $12/sq'. 15x more costly. I'll leave it to audiophiles to debate which does a better job. When I can add 15x the thickness for the same cost, I don't think there's an argument.

eta2 the next time I have cause to pull out my headliner, floor padding etc, I'm going to be plastering more of the stuff everywhere I can. I think it works great. Especially for the low price.

 

[boll_rig]

Rear Air bags?

Rayra, after much consideration I've decided to keep the design I'm going with. Your design would add the same amount of room if you were curious, I mocked it up, however definitely more supportive. The height I have now is 38 inches off the roof for a total of somewhere around 75 inches and without a platform on the floor thats more than enough room. Definitely planning on using some fold down EMT conduit/struts in the corners and I think I will be good.

The current weight of the top right now with the Plywood cross sheets it is 61LBS so its a little heavier than I though but Im hoping all said and done it wont be over 80-85lbs. From now I need to add the 3/4in Aluminum Tubing around the base about 30 feet of that, and some cross supports, a little more glass, the butyl flashing, 1/2 foam insulation sheet and headliner. And most likely have it sprayed with LineX adding another 15-20lbs. Should allow for about an additional 75-100 lbs on the roof popped (although probably will never pop it with all that weight up there if i can take some off.)


I have a side question on whether or not to go with airbags on my rear coils? I have a dirtbike hitch carrier as well and would be wanting to put my 280lbs bike and potentially my 450lb harley on the back, so that along with all this extra weight I'm putting on the truck I need something to help the rear suspension. I know Ill loose some travel and they arent as great for offroading but it seems like the cheapest option.
http://www.suspensionconnection.com...VUvv2AC5deaYiAjNFAhxipastWhsyFihU5RoCxx3w_wcB

and theres the Timbren but I think Id rather have airbags: http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index...3w_wcB&zenid=6ccea6a6aeaaac55c5d4d0a5b2bb9ec6

Not sure if those bags will fit because I have a leveling kit already, and am also looking to raise up the back even another inch or so and whats the best way to get that lift. Just cant stand my vehicle sagging. Does anyone know if these will do that for me? http://www.amazon.com/Spring-Spacers-Tahoe-Yukon-Suburban/dp/B00BEN3BEY

Appreciate the input in advance.
-Ian

 

[boll_rig]

Color Help

How's it going everyone. I went ahead and got the firestone airbags and will try and put them in sometime next week. Well see how they work, even thought about the compressor so that I could level the vehicle when camping, does anyone run a compressor with bags and does this work at all?

What I would really like though is your guys oppinion on paint color. Here are some really well done mock ups in photo shop.

I have always liked the new Tacoma's tan color and so i went online and found one and matched the color in photoshop... and I kind of like it! would love to hear your guys picks. The silver that matched the chome on the trim and bumper would also be nice. The darker grey I like as well because it would be slightly darker than the grey canvas Im getting and so I would have a nice three tone grey look when popped.

As of right now I plan on getting it Line Xd, a thin 40mm coat and then painting right after with acrylic exterior paint. The line X guy says that putting it on right after it will cure into the LINE X, and he said acrylic would work but Im a little worried about scratching.

 

[Burb One]

How's it going everyone. I went ahead and got the firestone airbags and will try and put them in sometime next week. Well see how they work, even thought about the compressor so that I could level the vehicle when camping, does anyone run a compressor with bags and does this work at all?

What I would really like though is your guys oppinion on paint color. Here are some really well done mock ups in photo shop.

I have always liked the new Tacoma's tan color and so i went online and found one and matched the color in photoshop... and I kind of like it! would love to hear your guys picks. The silver that matched the chome on the trim and bumper would also be nice. The darker grey I like as well because it would be slightly darker than the grey canvas Im getting and so I would have a nice three tone grey look when popped.

As of right now I plan on getting it Line Xd, a thin 40mm coat and then painting right after with acrylic exterior paint. The line X guy says that putting it on right after it will cure into the LINE X, and he said acrylic would work but Im a little worried about scratching.

Look up Monstaliner. I have been doing some testing on one of my panels, to see what holds up the best, and provides the best finish, before I do my whole truck in it (Sounds like though, you are putting a coat of acrylic vehicle pain on the outside of the linex?). Based on other's longterm, it seems to be the most UV resistant of the liners (Also was formulated to be a "paint" and not a truck bed liner, so it's a little lighter, along with the UV additive.)


Looks awesome!!!

 

[boll_rig]

Look up Monstaliner. I have been doing some testing on one of my panels, to see what holds up the best, and provides the best finish, before I do my whole truck in it (Sounds like though, you are putting a coat of acrylic vehicle pain on the outside of the linex?). Based on other's longterm, it seems to be the most UV resistant of the liners (Also was formulated to be a "paint" and not a truck bed liner, so it's a little lighter, along with the UV additive.)


Looks awesome!!!

Geron, thanks for the reply I looked into the montsaliner and am very intrigued. Have you tested it on any panels yet? Seems like it might even be a better option for myself as its about a 1/4 of the cost and I can pick colors. What info did you find that makes you think its the most UV resistant of the liners? I would love for this to be true.

Little Update: THE ROOF HAS BEEN CUT!

Decided to go only four feet up from the back to leave the main cross support from the frame in place. Happy with the cut.

Started pulling some of the interior panels out. Currently trying to decide whether to remove the enitre rear ac/heater system for more space. Might leave it for now, honesly cant remember using it much.

On a side note you can see the headliner hangs down about 3 inches from the roof. I went in a little deeper to remove the air vents and happened to find 140 dollars in 20s. Absolutely be-fumbled as to how that got there/who put it there. Was not me, and not possible to get to unless headliner is removed, I only found it when I cut. Could have been a thank you from my repair shop. Bizarre to say the least.

And Harley on the back for fun.

Anyone else have a color preference. Leaning towards the tan or silver/gray.

Also does anyone else have experience with Monstaliner? Honestly one of the things I'm worried about most is golf ball sized hail and LineX certainly would handle that but not sure on Monstaliner.

Putting the Gel coat on the topper today. Thanks for the comments!

 

[Martinjmpr]

Geron, thanks for the reply I looked into the montsaliner and am very intrigued. Have you tested it on any panels yet? Seems like it might even be a better option for myself as its about a 1/4 of the cost and I can pick colors. What info did you find that makes you think its the most UV resistant of the liners? I would love for this to be true.

.
FWIW we used Monstaliner on our wooden teardrop trailer in 2013 and it held up very well even through a lot of travel in 2013 and 2014. We did use an aluminum based primer on it first but it was tough as nails.
.

Little Update: THE ROOF HAS BEEN CUT!

.
Well, there's no going back now. :ylsmoke: You're committed!
.

I went in a little deeper to remove the air vents and happened to find 140 dollars in 20s. Absolutely be-fumbled as to how that got there/who put it there. Was not me, and not possible to get to unless headliner is removed, I only found it when I cut. Could have been a thank you from my repair shop. Bizarre to say the least.

.
Oh, great, now everyone's going to be tearing the headliners out of their Suburbans to see if maybe Chevy stuck money in there! :sombrero:

 

[Burb One]

Geron, thanks for the reply I looked into the montsaliner and am very intrigued. Have you tested it on any panels yet? Seems like it might even be a better option for myself as its about a 1/4 of the cost and I can pick colors. What info did you find that makes you think its the most UV resistant of the liners? I would love for this to be true.

Little Update: THE ROOF HAS BEEN CUT!

Decided to go only four feet up from the back to leave the main cross support from the frame in place. Happy with the cut.

Started pulling some of the interior panels out. Currently trying to decide whether to remove the enitre rear ac/heater system for more space. Might leave it for now, honesly cant remember using it much.

On a side note you can see the headliner hangs down about 3 inches from the roof. I went in a little deeper to remove the air vents and happened to find 140 dollars in 20s. Absolutely be-fumbled as to how that got there/who put it there. Was not me, and not possible to get to unless headliner is removed, I only found it when I cut. Could have been a thank you from my repair shop. Bizarre to say the least.

And Harley on the back for fun.

Anyone else have a color preference. Leaning towards the tan or silver/gray.

Also does anyone else have experience with Monstaliner? Honestly one of the things I'm worried about most is golf ball sized hail and LineX certainly would handle that but not sure on Monstaliner.

Putting the Gel coat on the topper today. Thanks for the comments!

I Tested it on an old fender I had laying in the garage. It is definitely slightly thinner than your other "higher end" bed liners (Linex is the onyl other expierience I have)

For using it as paint, it is more than adequate at least from my limited tests (Been about a month, and I "tried" scratching the panel with some stuff I had around the garage. ) I think it would do more than fine with large hail, at least to a point where you would start having other problems....

From my knowledge, Monstaliner was created with UV resistance as one of the main advantages over other liners at the time. (They even have a 5 year warranty for fade). I believe some of the other liners now have UV additives or at least versions with UV additives. What sold me, was Monstaliner was made with the sole, or at least main purpose, of being a paint and not a bed liner, so it's slightly thinner, UV resistant and doesn't have that much of an orange peel.

I would definitely go with a light grey/ tan, the lighter the better for heat!

 

[rayra]

I vote for a medium-light shade of gray, to match all the grays in the interior.

Also vote to keep the rear AC. It makes a big difference in the worst heat, when you have folks riding in the back.

I'm trying to recall the cheap brand of liner crap I painted my pickup bed with. It's been durable, gritty / grippy, and reasonably color fast, but it is very thin. The thicker sprayed-in style would be better for your application / needs, IMAO.

That cutting picture is awesome. Reminds me of a long time ago, when I was the sunroof 'installer' in my circle of friends, in our beater off road mini trucks and baja bugs. Their faces when I started cutting amused me.

 

[boll_rig]

Bit of an overdue update here. Ive been plugging away at finishing the inside of the shell and its proving to take way longer than I imagined.

First though I sanded down the outside and put a coat of silver automotive paint on to see how id like silver for a color and to give it some UV protection to work on it on the car.

Then I went ahead and filled the corners in with thickened epoxy resin to give one smooth surface for the next layer of fiberglass

I used two more layers up the sidewalls all the way around and 1 layup in the belly of the topper.

You can also see the back piece of plywood, which was a little easier to shim. Also, I sprayed yellow foam insulation in between the shims.

Once all the fiberglass was done, i put the bulb seal on and i threw it on the car just to see how it looked

and then popped it up, threw a sheet up and got on the roof..

 

[rayra]

Nice!
Coming along great. What kind of paint did you go with?
The color looks good too. The only other suggestion I could make was make the sides black and the top your light color. The 'black' hammered finish paint I used came out more of a gunmetal, much as your last pics appear.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ng-a-roof-rack-deck-on-a-GMT800-Suburban-Z-71

Overall it is looking pretty. Going to be real nice when you get all the cut edges trimmed up, get your fabric sidewalls worked up. Are you going to have vented windows in the pop-up, try and have a sleeping platform up there in a cross breeze? Or is it to be a loft-shelf where you can throw all the luggage while sleeping below?


eta - ripstopbytheroll has screen mesh too. Lots of tutorials around for sewing up a fabric sidewall, with zippered or velcro privacy panels. You could do your sidewall with mostly screen sides and have fabric panels attach with velcro to the inner faces, as curtains / privacy panels.

https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/0-67-oz-noseeum-mesh-black

 

[boll_rig]

You know I really like the color of that roof shade.. I just went to sherman williams and got some polyurethane metallic silver paint. Its actually about to be sanded off here soon. I decided that I wanted to go with the monstaliner instead of lineX and so i got 2.5 gallons of the stuff and went with the tan color called killer beej. I think ill like the tan but well just have to see. Seriously considering going back to black at some point though, i just love the congruity of how it looked before.. So maybe you're right Rayra, paint the sides black hammered finish..

So for the tent material I am having it sewn to my specs. 6 windows each with 4 zippers so that it goes from canvas (going to be grey) to plastic, then to screen, then to open air. Most the tent will be windows. And this was by far the biggest expense of the project, almost 1/3 to half the cost of the whole thing, but I just needed it to be right and didn't feel like tackling that job.

And yes you are correct there will a sleeping platform up top with a slide out extendable section to make it a full 78 inch bed. I may also make a raised bed/storage area below for when I want to sleep without it popped.

Anyone have any suggestions on foam? was thinking 2 inch memory foam on top of carpet and getting dense 1 inch foam to slide under the memory if i need more comfort... just a little tight on space with the canvas, bed and topper all squishing together so not sure If three inches of bedding will fit yet.