2015 4x4 Sprinter Planned for Fall 2014 (or not)

[mhiscox]

I'm reluctant to even post this information, but consider it my duty to the optimistic amongst you . . .

There is recent information that Daimler-Benz will make an all-wheel driven Sprinter available in the U.S. and Canada in a little over a year. What I know about it is from this thread on the Sprinter-Source forum:

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27037

You'll notice some skepticism by a few of the longer-term forum members, including a quote to the effect that "I'll believe it when one runs over my foot." Me, too. I've been involved with Sprinters for about a decade and during that time there have been four instances of "It's absolutely coming," and, of course, it hasn't. The change in driveline means that expensive certification work has to be done and it has not been cost-effective to date. Sprinters constitute about 5% of the van market, and if you figure the take rate for 4x4 would likely be under 10%, we're not talking about a lot of sales.

But there is a redesigned Sprinter for 2104 that MBz will be bullish on, and there are certainly some fleet operators who would like the option, so who can tell? I only know that I've heard it all before.

One other thing . . . even if this happens, it's not going to produce a hardcore trail-capable truck. The all-wheel drive system will be highly computerized and more for getting through snow than rock-crawling. If you think 2WD Astro vs. AWD Astro, I don't think you'd be to far off. Certainly, the currently available Whitefeather and Upscale conversions will provide better off-pavement performance.

 

[Flagster]

Interesting but if I am reading correctly there is a 10mph cutoff in the system. Sounds like an expensive traction control/launch control for snow covered roads...
I think I will stick with 2wd...You can't really get offroad in any sprinter...

 

[mhiscox]

You can't really get offroad in any sprinter...

Yeah, but you can do pretty nicely off-pavement when the weather is cooperative.

 

[Flagster]

Off pavement yes...important distinction... Improved dirt roads are still roads which is why I still would consider a 2wd sprinter since it could take me 90-95% that my 4wd/lo vehicles do...
It would be nice to see an AWD option and I would definitely consider it ...

 

[Overland Hadley]

Sounds more like an AWD system than 4x4?

Do the current Sprinters have a traction control system?

 

[mhiscox]

Do the current Sprinters have a traction control system?

Sort of. One of the expert Sprinter contributors named it the "sneaky braking" system. In common with lots of current vehicles, the Sprinter's "ASR" (automatic slip reduction) uses measurements, mostly of wheel spin, to brake individual wheels. Not exactly triple lockers, or even a limited slip differential. Definitely useful sometimes, though the consensus is that you turn it off whenever you think you, as driver, can do better by judiciously allowing some wheelspin.

Here's the pertinent information out of the manual. After you read it, you'll probably decide, like me, that there's no downside to it, but a pretty limited upside.

ASR improves traction for a sustained period, i.e. the transfer of power from the tires to the road surface, and thus also improves the driving stability of the vehicle. ASR assists you when pulling away and accelerating, especially on smooth and slippery surfaces. ASR brakes individual drive wheels and limits the engine torque to prevent the drive wheels from spinning. When ASR intervenes, the indicator lamp in the speedometer flashes.

ASR is automatically activated as soon as the engine is switched on. It may be best to deactivate ASR in the following situations: if snow chains are being used, in deep snow, on sand or gravel. If you deactivate ASR, the engine’s torque is then no longer limited and the drive wheels could spin; the spinning wheels produce a cutting effect for better traction. Traction control still intervenes by braking if one drive wheel reaches its grip limit, for example if the surface under one side of the vehicle is slippery. The wheel is then braked to increase traction in this situation. ESP (note: ESP is the Sprinter's Electronic Stability Progam) still intervenes to stabilize the vehicle.

​

One thing that would have been handy, to my mind, would have been a limited slip differential. I know that Upscale looked into it many years ago, and if I recall what happened, it was complicated because of a lot of need to fool the truck's computers, and it would need to be sold for several thousand dollars to cover the costs so, especially since an LSD option is something people are used to paying a few hundred for it, it didn't seem it could cover development costs.

After a bit of experience, my view on 2WD Sprinter overlanders goes like this . . . you're always likely to have a Sprinter on some sort of "road," no matter how poor, where it will perform quite well in dry conditions. If rain or snow make the conditions turn poor, a combination of finding a better route, adequate recovery gear, and a Spot/InReach will keep you from peril, especially given that you'd be waiting out problems in a secure vehicle, probably with food, water and other useful stuff. If that still seems too iffy, be happy you can now get the Whitefeather or Upscale 4WD conversions.

 

[Flagster]

you're always likely to have a Sprinter on some sort of "road," no matter how poor, where it will perform quite well in dry conditions. If rain or snow make the conditions turn poor, a combination of finding a better route, adequate recovery gear, and a Spot/InReach will keep you from peril, especially given that you'd be waiting out problems in a secure vehicle, probably with food, water and other useful stuff. If that still seems too iffy, be happy you can now get the Whitefeather or Upscale 4WD conversions.

Nailed it...I wouldn't complain if I had to call work saying "so this snow/rain storm left me unable to leave my camp spot on this isolated dirt road until the road dries out...which may take weeks"

 

[cwsqbm]

Interesting but if I am reading correctly there is a 10mph cutoff in the system. Sounds like an expensive traction control/launch control for snow covered roads...
I think I will stick with 2wd...You can't really get offroad in any sprinter...

What it says is that it can only be "engaged" at a stand-still or up to 10kph (~6mph). This means is a non shift-on-the-fly system, not a system that turns off at 10mph. Basically, you'd turn it on any time there's a thread of traction loss, probably at the loss of a little fuel economy when engaged.

As someone that deals with snow-covered roads for a decent percentage of the year, I'd love an AWD system for a van. I've driven plenty of vans over the years, and none of them were fun in the snow or even rain.

 

[Flagster]

i guess 'engaged' is slightly subjective...does it mean "can be turned on" or "active"...

 

[michaeldorian]

The van is now officially real. Orders start November, builds in Jan and delivery in April. 8K up cost. Huge fender gaps. With more information out do you guys still feel the same way about it not being worth it? I'd love to start a discussion again. I'm in the decision mode. 2WD or 4WD. Thoughts?

 

[BillTex]

The van is now officially real. Orders start November, builds in Jan and delivery in April. 8K up cost. Huge fender gaps. With more information out do you guys still feel the same way about it not being worth it? I'd love to start a discussion again. I'm in the decision mode. 2WD or 4WD. Thoughts?

$8k for AWD?
Am I reading that correctly?

 

[michaeldorian]

$8k for AWD?
Am I reading that correctly?

"4″ in the front and 3″ in the rear increased height to give it a better approach angle.

The system is a Military grade system that is 2 wheel drive with a push button switch to activate the 4×4 system. You must be going under 6 mph to activate.

The power is split 65% rear and 35% front at that point. Our current ESP system will direct power to the wheel with traction automatically.

The other option is to have a High and Low range option that will cut the speed by 42% to be used in off road situations. Again this is activated by a dash button.

No price yet, but their target was to be under $8000 for the option, not sure if that is for the high range only, but expect a difference of a couple thousand to get high/low range feature."

From Sprinter Source. From what I heard the option price is $7800.00 Not sure if that includes the low transfer unit or not. 2015 models will have a 1 - 2% price raise across the board.

So base models will start somewhere I'm guessing around 46.5K.

 

[mhiscox]

I'm in the decision mode. 2WD or 4WD. Thoughts?

I'm certainly going to consider paying for one. But then again, I looked into sending my first Sprinter to Germany for conversion, so anything in the $10K area seems a genuine bargain to me. If you figure Quigley wants something over $12K to convert an E-Series or Savanna/Express, it doesn't seem unreasonable to pay maybe $10K to come up with the Sprinter equivalent. Of course, I don't think anyone yet knows how capable the system will be. There'll be computers doing the thinking for you, but that's the way things are done these days, and if it comes close to matching some of the better systems, it'll be worth having. Or it could be lame. Time will tell, which is why I won't be making a move for about a year, if it all.

Regardless of how affordable it is, I'll once again bring up that a 2WD Sprinter with the right tires is a reasonable choice for good weather off-pavement use. Fairly rugged, pretty torquey engine, and good ground clearance make it worthy for the NFS/BLM dispersed camping where a good-sized van really shines. And with limits to the tire size, suspension mods and so on, you don't have the option of (reasonably--don't bring up Arctic Trucks) making a rock crawler out of one, so what you're really doing is paying the money to make the van less likely to be held up by weather-related road issues. I doubt that many owners will go substantially different places in a 4WD Sprinter than a 2WD Sprinter, but the owner with 4WD will be able to do so with more confidence of not encountering problems.

One other thing to take into account is that the lift is going to make a quite tall vehicle even taller. It could negatively affect on-pavement handling, and it will definitely affect routine entry/exit. Toss in the extra cost and maybe an mpg less and a 4WD Sprinter is probably not going to be something you'll want to pay for unless you actually have a need for it.

 

[haven]

In my experience with Sprinters in South America, the vans easily got stuck in sand or even on wet grass, fully loaded. This was with first gen models that lacked any traction aids. The modern vans have electronics that limit wheelspin, so maybe they don't get stuck as easily. I'd be inclined to look really hard at 4x4.

If correct, $8k is reasonable. I've seen articles that say the 4x4 option will cost 8000 Euro, or about $11,000, in Europe.

 

[michaeldorian]

I'm certainly going to consider paying for one. But then again, I looked into sending my first Sprinter to Germany for conversion, so anything in the $10K area seems a genuine bargain to me. If you figure Quigley wants something over $12K to convert an E-Series or Savanna/Express, it doesn't seem unreasonable to pay maybe $10K to come up with the Sprinter equivalent. Of course, I don't think anyone yet knows how capable the system will be. There'll be computers doing the thinking for you, but that's the way things are done these days, and if it comes close to matching some of the better systems, it'll be worth having. Or it could be lame. Time will tell, which is why I won't be making a move for about a year, if it all.

Regardless of how affordable it is, I'll once again bring up that a 2WD Sprinter with the right tires is a reasonable choice for good weather off-pavement use. Fairly rugged, pretty torquey engine, and good ground clearance make it worthy for the NFS/BLM dispersed camping where a good-sized van really shines. And with limits to the tire size, suspension mods and so on, you don't have the option of (reasonably--don't bring up Arctic Trucks) making a rock crawler out of one, so what you're really doing is paying the money to make the van less likely to be held up by weather-related road issues. I doubt that many owners will go substantially different places in a 4WD Sprinter than a 2WD Sprinter, but the owner with 4WD will be able to do so with more confidence of not encountering problems.

One other thing to take into account is that the lift is going to make a quite tall vehicle even taller. It could negatively affect on-pavement handling, and it will definitely affect routine entry/exit. Toss in the extra cost and maybe an mpg less and a 4WD Sprinter is probably not going to be something you'll want to pay for unless you actually have a need for it.

Thanks. This is a very logical explanation and very helpful in my decision. You're right, it would only be used for that confidence and just in case aspect. Looks like 2WD with the right tires seems to be very capable with the new Electronic traction systems.