2015 Renegade Trailhawk

[91AzXJ]

I currently have a 2000 XJ which is lifted and somewhat decked out for moderate offroading, just buried an 04 Wrangler which was also preped for offroading and have two Liberty's, an 06 KJ and 11 KK. The KJ is lifted with all the skids and rear LSD but it is not the vehicle I would choose to do any hardcore offroading and the KK is my wife's DD. I have a vehicle which is designated as a combination DD/offroad vehicle while the KJ will see some mild trails. There are some Liberty's which I'm sure are far more capable than my XJ but mine is not one of those. I know the vehicles limitations and respect it for what it is. The new Cherokee and Renegade fall into that catagory as well. They serve a purpose and should be respected for that as they were never designed to be a Wrangler killer.

 

[kojackJKU]

Well said, Everyone is comparing the new Cherokee and Renegade to the Wrangler. Its not. They are however capable of tackling much more difficult terrain than any of their competitors and will go farther in the bush than people give them credit for. As I said previously, I owned a patriot FDII, and I put that places it had no business being and it just trucked on through....even with the crappy stock tires.

 

[RubiconGeoff]

Too true. I'm getting it for basic transport, with some light 4x4 capability (i.e., gravel roads and snow in mountains). I had a tough time choosing between the Renegade, the Toyota RAV, the Honda CRV, and the Subaru Crosstrek (my second choice), but it boiled down to the fact that I'm a Jeep person . Would I take this thing overlanding? Not with a unibody (I'll keep my '01 Cherokee for that).

Obviously with ground clearance, solid axles, a 2-speed transfer case, and the ability to upgrade it, an XJ will run circles around a Renegade or KL Cherokee on tough trails, but your argument regarding the unibody doesn't make any sense. The Renegade and KL have ultra-stiff modern unibodies with modern steel alloys and modern manufacturing; the XJ's 1984-spec unibody is known as a flexy-flyer with notorious difficulty standing up to offroad use. For "overlanding" where ultimate offroad capability comes second to durability, I would suggest that a Renegade or KL would be a better option than an XJ (unless your idea of "overlanding" includes the Rubicon Trail).

 

[Dalko43]

Obviously with ground clearance, solid axles, a 2-speed transfer case, and the ability to upgrade it, an XJ will run circles around a Renegade or KL Cherokee on tough trails, but your argument regarding the unibody doesn't make any sense. The Renegade and KL have ultra-stiff modern unibodies with modern steel alloys and modern manufacturing; the XJ's 1984-spec unibody is known as a flexy-flyer with notorious difficulty standing up to offroad use. For "overlanding" where ultimate offroad capability comes second to durability, I would suggest that a Renegade or KL would be a better option than an XJ (unless your idea of "overlanding" includes the Rubicon Trail).

Yes, but aren't we comparing apples to oranges here. The XJ cherokee originated back in the 90's; I don't think the new Cherokee and Renegade are valid comparisons in terms of technology and quality.

Now, if we were to compare the new CHerokee Trailhawk and Renegade to a contemporary Body-on-Frame SUV (Nissan Xterra, 5th Gen 4Runner), which would hold up better to off-road abuse?

The other issue is that even with better quality of construction, the Renegade and Cherokee are incapable of receiving serious lifts for better clearance due to their unibody construction...these vehicles are still new, but I don't think they will have the same aftermarket support or off-road following that the XJ had.

And for the record, I was never suggesting that Jeep was trying to make the new Cherokee or Renegade equal to the Jeep Wrangler in terms of off-road capability. I was merely observing how certain off-road journalists (like fourwheeler.com) have bestowed awards and praises on these new unibody vehicles, despite the fact that they aren't true off-road vehicles.

 

[AZJim]

Excuse me Dalko43, but XJ, ZJ, WJ, WK, WK2, KJ, and KK are all unibody and are quite liftable. And are true off road vehicles It's not whether the vehicle has a unibody or body on frame, but what type of suspension and how it's designed that determines how it's lifted and how high it can be lifted. And XJ's came to market in 1984.

Jim

 

[AZJim]

Oops, didn't mean to leave out the XK's. Any others I missed?

Jim

 

[RubiconGeoff]

Oops, didn't mean to leave out the XK's. Any others I missed?

Jim

The MJ is half-unibody, half ladder frame. :sombrero:

 

[Dalko43]

Excuse me Dalko43, but XJ, ZJ, WJ, WK, WK2, KJ, and KK are all unibody and are quite liftable. And are true off road vehicles It's not whether the vehicle has a unibody or body on frame, but what type of suspension and how it's designed that determines how it's lifted and how high it can be lifted.

I agree, all of the models you listed are unibody and are liftable (with the exception of the KL). But there has been a lot of feedback on some of those platforms requiring frame stiffening/reinforcement for extensive off-road use. As for them being true off-road vehicles, that's a subjective issue all together...you have your opinion and I have mine. The only one I see as a real off-roader is the Cherokee XJ, which, despite its unibody, was a simple and reliable platform to drive and modify.

As for the new Cherokee KL, it's been public knowledge now for some time that adding in a lift, though technically possible, is prohibitively costly and complex as it requires major work:
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/dont-believe-rumors-that-the-2014-jeep-cherokee-is-un-1522058978

And though there is no concrete word on whether the new Renegade can be lifted, initial info suggests that it may be difficult and impractical for that platform as well:
http://indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com/will-the-2015-jeep-renegade-be-any-good-off-road-1580389048

And XJ's came to market in 1984.

That just adds even more weight to my original point....comparing the performance/quality/durability of a 1980's jeep platform like the XJ to a modern-day Crossover, like the KL, doesn't make sense...of course the newer one is going to have much better construction and reliability than the older one.

 

[AZJim]

You're right the KL is not liftable that's why I didn't list it. Unless you're going to go racing the bodies of the others hold up quite well.
I think it's not the off road capability you're talking about, but the load carrying that body on frame has the advantage of.

Jim

 

[kayadog]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ored-jeeps-fiats-to-head-to-dealers-this-week

Update: Renegades are being shipped to dealers after the problem was resolved. The solution sounds a little dubious but let's hope for the best!

 

[AZJim]

That's good news. Larry Vellequette is a pretty reliable source of information concerning Chrysler.

Jim

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ored-jeeps-fiats-to-head-to-dealers-this-week

Update: Renegades are being shipped to dealers after the problem was resolved. The solution sounds a little dubious but let's hop for the best!

 

[Dalko43]

You're right the KL is not liftable that's why I didn't list it. Unless you're going to go racing the bodies of the others hold up quite well.
I think it's not the off road capability you're talking about, but the load carrying that body on frame has the advantage of.

Jim

Well load capacity is an important aspect for many off-roaders, especially those focused on overlanding. So I would count that as part of the vehicle's off-road capability.

I concede that Jeep has put a lot research and effort into making these unibody crossovers durable and robust enough to handle moderately difficult terrain. Will these crossovers stay durable long enough for 2nd and 3rd hand owners to modify and drive these vehicles in the same manner as traditional BOF SUV's (Xterra, 4runner, Wrangler, ect.)? I guess time will tell. The only one that seems to have a real off-road following is the XJ. IMO, the BOF SUV's and trucks seem inherently more durable than unibodies, and as a result are more coveted by enthusiasts as off-road vehicles.

And the reason I brought up the Cherokee KL and Renegade is because they represent the future for Jeep's "off-roading" unibody crossovers. The fact that the KL can't be lifted (practically speaking) and the Renegade is still a great unknown is not a good sign for these vehicles' long term off-roading prospects.

 

[haven]

Looks like Renegades are once again heading to dealers near you.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/01/jeep-renegade-fiat-500x-headed-dealers/

Oops, I see this was reported earlier today.

 

[calicamper]

Well load capacity is an important aspect for many off-roaders, especially those focused on overlanding. So I would count that as part of the vehicle's off-road capability.

I concede that Jeep has put a lot research and effort into making these unibody crossovers durable and robust enough to handle moderately difficult terrain. Will these crossovers stay durable long enough for 2nd and 3rd hand owners to modify and drive these vehicles in the same manner as traditional BOF SUV's (Xterra, 4runner, Wrangler, ect.)? I guess time will tell. The only one that seems to have a real off-road following is the XJ. IMO, the BOF SUV's and trucks seem inherently more durable than unibodies, and as a result are more coveted by enthusiasts as off-road vehicles.

And the reason I brought up the Cherokee KL and Renegade is because they represent the future for Jeep's "off-roading" unibody crossovers. The fact that the KL can't be lifted (practically speaking) and the Renegade is still a great unknown is not a good sign for these vehicles' long term off-roading prospects.

The Little Renegade is built on the Fiat 500 platform which I'm pretty sure shares some basics with the Fiat Panda. The Renegade is just Fiat's err Jeeps entry market cheap little Jeep product. I like that it looks like a fun little cheap Jeep which it is. Will there be 2nd and 3rd owners? Yes but they won't be any different than your 2nd and 3rd owner Chevy/Ford/Dodge cheap econo car type folks given by the time that type of vehicle reaches its 2nd and 3rd owner its not worth much more than it is in scrap value.

I like Fiat design hell I rent them when I head back to Europe given they are fun little cars. But you guys need to be reminded these are Fiat cars with some jeep content added to them. This isn't a JEEP in the terms of past little JEEPS. Its a little cheap Fiat 500 with some reworking done to it and some Fiat Panda ideas tossed at it to build a small cheap vehicle they can sell with the JEEP plate stuck to it.

 

[AZJim]

The Renegade does not share a platform with either the 500 or Panda. It's a modified 500L platform which was modified from the Fiat Punto. And Jeep engineered and designed the Renegade.

Jim

The Little Renegade is built on the Fiat 500 platform which I'm pretty sure shares some basics with the Fiat Panda. The Renegade is just Fiat's err Jeeps entry market cheap little Jeep product. I like that it looks like a fun little cheap Jeep which it is. Will there be 2nd and 3rd owners? Yes but they won't be any different than your 2nd and 3rd owner Chevy/Ford/Dodge cheap econo car type folks given by the time that type of vehicle reaches its 2nd and 3rd owner its not worth much more than it is in scrap value.

I like Fiat design hell I rent them when I head back to Europe given they are fun little cars. But you guys need to be reminded these are Fiat cars with some jeep content added to them. This isn't a JEEP in the terms of past little JEEPS. Its a little cheap Fiat 500 with some reworking done to it and some Fiat Panda ideas tossed at it to build a small cheap vehicle they can sell with the JEEP plate stuck to it.