2017 4runner v 2017 Landcruiser
- Thread starter Ryanmb21
- Start date
That's a good example to illustrate how the same platform can have different GVWR's depending on its suspension setup. But does that directly apply to the LC 200? For example, does the LC 200's GVWR change depending on it if has the V8 diesel or the V8 gasoline as its powerplant? If it does, by how much? The Ram 2500 is inherently a more heavy duty platform, designed for heavier payloads and towing; so I would certainly expect its spec's to vary slightly depending on its engine and corresponding suspension setup.
So an additional 1458lbs of weight can technically be put on the axles? Or do you read that to mean that difference in axle rating between the 4runner and the LC200 is 1458lbs?
As I understand it, the GAWR is indicating the total weight that the axle can support. So if the LC 200 has GAWR's of 3595lbs and 4300lbs for the front and rear respectively, that means it can hold that much total weight (which includes the weight of the engine, body, frame, ect.). The LC200 being 1,000-1,400lbs heavier than the 4runner (depending on the 4runner's specific trim), I would expect its axle ratings to be somewhat higher; the LC200's axles need to support added vehicle weight relative to the 4runner.
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It probably doesn't directly apply to a 200, but I don't know it that well. If anything, I bet the diesel has less payload due to more weight.
A better comparison is this: if they had a 4.0 V6 LC200, and rated the towing capacity at 4500 lbs, then we know it's a performance / marketing driven spec, not safety. Axles, brakes, suspension, and frame are safety driven factors, and they stay the same.
If I choose to limit my throttle to <50% on the 5.7 V8, does the truck suddenly have a lower tow capacity?
Guess I should've been more clear, let's look at it from another perspective:
The LC200's combined axle rating is 2080 lbs above its curb weight (3595+4300-5815 lbs)
The 4Runner's combined axle rating is 1687 lbs above its curb weight (2998+3439-4750 lbs)
Therefore, the LC has more axle capacity relative to its curb weight than the 4Runner. This agrees with my initial guess than the LC is more tolerant to over-loading despite similar official payload limits.
And once again, not everything is relative to the curb weight. I go back to my original example: is a Mini Cooper loaded at GVW just as tough as an Oshkosh loaded at GVW? If they both hit a small tree stump at 15 mph? Will the results be identical because both of their axles are designed for their GVW?
Yeah, but the point I was making was that the Ram 2500 w/ a Hemi V8 is probably okay to go a bit over on GVWR because, except for the suspension, it has the same strength components (frame, axles, ect.) as the heavier duty version with the Cummins diesel. I don't think the same argument applies to the LC 200 with either the diesel or gasoline v8, though I do acknowledge that there was likely some payload leeway built into that platform.
Agreed that the LC200 has more axle capacity, though there is still the frame and suspension to consider when determining payload and towing specs. The suspension is obviously changeable, the frame isn't (at least without serious modification). Personally, I'd be reluctant to test the limits of those axle rating #'s for either platform. That aside, there is a 400lb difference between the LC200 and 4runner's spare axle capacity (axle ratings - curb weight)...so you still can't go too overboard with the LC200.
I know what you're getting at, but the analogy doesn't work because the 6.4 Hemi and Cummins Ram has identical GVW (due to identical powertrain, as you mentioned). The Hemi has 8000 lbs higher payload due to being that much lighter.
My point is a bit different: why does 2 Hemi trucks have different payload AND GVW? With identical drive train. That has to be marketing driven. I'm NOT implying this is the case with the LC200. Just pointing out not all Payload specs are written by engineers.
Agree. Again, I don't recommend overloading, just that most builds ARE overloaded.
I'd be very interested in what an OEM engineer says about frame limitations though. I've never seen a frame so weak that it can't achieve full axle loading. Maybe in the worst case scenario - placing a 2000 lbs lead block at exactly middle of the wheel base - maximum bending moment.
It would be easy to calculate if Toyota releases the section modulus and tensile strength of steel.
Old Man Emu Australia offers GVWR/GVM upgrades. The kits include new springs, shocks and a new GVWR/GVM plate. In all cases, the upgraded GVWR never never exceeds the GAWR.
https://www.arb.com.au/products/old-man-emu-4x4-suspension/gvm-upgrades/
I've heard of those before. Love the Australian system, where certified shops / engineers can increase the legal payload of a truck.
Guess the downside is, their cops enforce GVW a lot more strictly...
Nerd-out alert. LC 200's get built to preposterous levels down in Australia and in the Middle East with no issues with GVWR. My 200 had 1K of armor, gear, water, etc. and never skipped a beat. Just make sure you upgrade your suspension system to something that can scale with your build. I had Radflo 2.5's with Eibach 800 springs up front and OME heavy springs in the rear.
Also, if you read the IH8MUD 200 series forums, there are several contributors who work for car armoring companies that work a great deal with 200's. Those guys pile on thousands of pounds on those rigs.
Also, if you read the IH8MUD 200 series forums, there are several contributors who work for car armoring companies that work a great deal with 200's. Those guys pile on thousands of pounds on those rigs.
This comment 10X...
Daily drive a 2006 Hundy. Rented a 2017 4Runner at Christmas and was surprised at how poorly it compared to an 11 year old Cruiser. Would not trade my 100K mile Cruiser for a brand new Runner.
I just traded in a 2016 4Runner Trail Premium on a leftover 2016 Land Cruiser. I love(d) them both, but they are so totally different that I couldn't even begin to compare them. The honest--and completely unhelpful--answer is that you have to decide for yourself which one you want. They aren't similar enough to belong on the same decision matrix.
LOL it's clear you don't get it.
Drive the vehicle I wanted all along.
OffToTheSide
Member
Bingo!
I owned a Gen5 T4R, but did not like it.
Great truck, but not a great truck for me.
I'm shopping for an LC200, which I should have bought instead of the 4Runner to begin with.