2019 F350 6.2L 4WD build thread; HPI flatbed, ATO AterraXL composite camper, Carli/King, 37s, 4.88s, etc

[Wrathchild]

@mk216v thank you for the detailed response! Excited to see the Aterra on your rig and others.

I’m a couple years out from a new truck. And will
Likely be selling my Sierra. But a flatbed on a F350 is what I’m looking towards. Roomier camper and can tow my boat better. Camper choice (of what’s currently on the market) is between the Aterra and OEV HBE. Will have to pull double duty as a DD though, so ease of removal is important to me.

 

[mog]

Mario at ATO is supposed to fly up, perhaps with their lead tech/engineer, and assist Brent/Aaron of Oregon Adventure Trucks with the install.

Impressive
I thought only ? Formula One teams ? had the designer and chief engineers fly in for support. You sure know how to roll!
Of course, now the reveal will have to include 'pit girls'. But with this being a family-friendly Portal, your dogs can stand in as the 'pit girls'.

 

[mk216v]

@mk216v thank you for the detailed response! Excited to see the Aterra on your rig and others.
I’m a couple years out from a new truck. And will likely be selling my Sierra. But a flatbed on a F350 is what I’m looking towards. Roomier camper and can tow my boat better. Camper choice (of what’s currently on the market) is between the Aterra and OEV HBE. Will have to pull double duty as a DD though, so ease of removal is important to me.

You're welcome.
Diesel F350 for towing I assume?
Both excellent choices, ATO sells both, and both can be as easily removable from a flatbed as a slide-in camper is.
Curious; any height or noise constraints pushing you towards a poptop/fixedtop? Interior storage or potti cabinet needs? Natural light needs when the camper is closed down? Noise from a pop top's soft sides was a big deal for us, as is the lack of storage and windows in the HBE. HBE has thicker lower walls, but has soft sided upper. And no windows at all, until the top is popped and then they're soft windows. The taller fixed height (with 6 permanent windows to boot) of the Aterra is the tradeoff for us, but now that we live east of the Casdcade Mtns vs west of the Cascades, there are fewer trees to have to trim with a pole saw, so hopefully it works.

Impressive
I thought only ? Formula One teams ? had the designer and chief engineers fly in for support. You sure know how to roll!
Of course, now the reveal will have to include 'pit girls'. But with this being a family-friendly Portal, your dogs can stand in as the 'pit girls'.

Ha! Don't consider this a Flying Spanner service though.
Hehe, would be too perfect if we had Pit Bulls.

 

[Wrathchild]

@mk216v Funny you mention diesel. I would be perfectly happy with the 7.3 gasser and the increased payload it provides. Then my wife asks last night “what if we decide to get a bigger boat?”. We currently have a 22’ aluminum hardtop that’s about 6k lbs wet. I love the size for the salt and big lakes/rivers. But she’s not totally wrong that we’ll go bigger if the need arises.

Biggest think for her is that she doesn’t want power or weight be an issue again (as we’ve ran into with our 1/2 ton). She wants this one more “future proofed”.

So I guess diesel is back on the table…

I’m 60/40 in favor of a hard side. We absolutely love our current OVRLND set up. And had our towing needs not changed I wouldn’t be toying with selling it. But it is def a fairweather kind of deal. And towing our boat beyond our local (and very limited road system on the island) is asking a lot of it.

The HBE solves a lot of the pop up cold weather issues, but not all of them. Then of course the Aterra is true 4 season. We travel super light so storage isn’t a huge concern for us, but keeping it organized and tidy is. My wife and I need to see the two in person before we can really make the decision. Benefit and drawbacks to both for sure.

I will be semi-retired in a ‘24 and we will be splitting our time between MT and AK. For those climates the hard side def makes more sense.

We don’t really care about having a shower. But the Aterra seems to be better thought out. And the wrappon toilet is integrated better IMO. The shower and potty kinda seem an afterthought in what otherwise is phenomenal design in the HBE. We have a wrappon right now. And I wouldnt want to have anything else.

What is your projected weight all-up on this project? Are you gonna be running up against gvwr?

 

[mk216v]

@mk216v Funny you mention diesel. I would be perfectly happy with the 7.3 gasser and the increased payload it provides. Then my wife asks last night “what if we decide to get a bigger boat?”. We currently have a 22’ aluminum hardtop that’s about 6k lbs wet. I love the size for the salt and big lakes/rivers. But she’s not totally wrong that we’ll go bigger if the need arises.

Biggest think for her is that she doesn’t want power or weight be an issue again (as we’ve ran into with our 1/2 ton). She wants this one more “future proofed”.

So I guess diesel is back on the table…

I’m 60/40 in favor of a hard side. We absolutely love our current OVRLND set up. And had our towing needs not changed I wouldn’t be toying with selling it. But it is def a fairweather kind of deal. And towing our boat beyond our local (and very limited road system on the island) is asking a lot of it.

The HBE solves a lot of the pop up cold weather issues, but not all of them. Then of course the Aterra is true 4 season. We travel super light so storage isn’t a huge concern for us, but keeping it organized and tidy is. My wife and I need to see the two in person before we can really make the decision. Benefit and drawbacks to both for sure.

I will be semi-retired in a ‘24 and we will be splitting our time between MT and AK. For those climates the hard side def makes more sense.

We don’t really care about having a shower. But the Aterra seems to be better thought out. And the wrappon toilet is integrated better IMO. The shower and potty kinda seem an afterthought in what otherwise is phenomenal design in the HBE. We have a wrappon right now. And I wouldnt want to have anything else.

What is your projected weight all-up on this project? Are you gonna be running up against gvwr?

I hear that. Looks like in the future we may tow a loaded horse trailer, where the torque of the diesel would make that a breeze. But we're never going to be towing more than adventuring so I'll deal with slogging up mountain grades when towing, in exchange for the simplicity of the petrol V8.

OVE HBE is by far the best 4season poptop camper out there IMHO. Aterra has thinner wall construction, but has no poptop, so it can be debated which is more 4seasonable; both having Truma propane heaters.

Aterra is brilliantly designed with the use of space. So happy to hear you love your Wrappon. The dinette placement isn't ideal for doing bizness, but the only change to ATO's arrangement I'd like to have seen would be a slide-out Wrappon (into the entry way) from under the curbside dinette seat. Put the shower pan/drain embedded in the entry way floor, hang a shower curtain from the ceiling above the entry, use the entry as the potti room or shower room (*only issue with this is that you'd then have the drain for the interior shower pissing all over your entry steps, vs currently pissing out the rear lower of the camper).
In the HBE, that entry cabinet being used for either storage or half-high potti room makes sense, as where else would you put a potti in an HBE? (I'm glad they revised their shower pan in the dinette floor, so the interior shower is now usable for HBE'ers).

Weights; have a look at post 21 as I just revised the info; https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...king-37s-4-88s-etc.230131/page-2#post-2990036

Quick skinny;
-Latest weigh-in #3; 8550lbs w/ Buckstop bumper/winch/Baja lights, full 60gal tank, HPI crossframe/flatbed bare, gears/locker in boxes in rear seat area, some smaller Carli susp boxes in crossframe, me and dogs on platform (4900F/3650R). HPI's estimate to me was that total weight would be in the 900# range; flatbed ~500lbs, crossframe ~200lbs, underbody boxes 40-50lbs/ea. I'm unsure how much the stock aluminum truck bed weighs, and I don't know how I picked up 300lbs of F axle weight compared to weigh-in #2.

Camper wet is ~1250lbs.
So 8550lbs + 1250lbs camper + 200lbs 4underbed boxes = 10,000lbs with camper and 4 empty underbody boxes. Doesn't include any extra weight from Carli susp components, extra weight of 5qty 37" tires, 1 passenger, our recovery gear, camping gear, food, possible future short roof rack and 2 cargo boxes, etc etc etc. GVWR is 10,900lbs, so I'm going to be over that, even when being mindful of weights.

 

[Wrathchild]

@mk216v Thank you for the numbers you’re working with. Interesting that your GVWR is 10,900. I’ve been researching over on tremor forum. Have some really good payload threads.

6.7 lariat tremor payload is between 3300 and 3400 with a 11,500 gvwr. I wonder if it’s the beefier springs on the tremor that give it the extra rating. 7.3 is the same gvwr but closer to 4K in payload.

With regearing, proper tires and susp I doubt your truck is gonna care about being near or over the on-paper limits. As well as having the simplicity and excellent reliability of the 6.2!

 

[mk216v]

@mk216v Thank you for the numbers you’re working with. Interesting that your GVWR is 10,900. I’ve been researching over on tremor forum. Have some really good payload threads.

6.7 lariat tremor payload is between 3300 and 3400 with a 11,500 gvwr. I wonder if it’s the beefier springs on the tremor that give it the extra rating. 7.3 is the same gvwr but closer to 4K in payload.

With regearing, proper tires and susp I doubt your truck is gonna care about being near or over the on-paper limits. As well as having the simplicity and excellent reliability of the 6.2!

Certainly. An option for my truck was 11,300 GVWR; I believe maybe with the add'l camper package with heavier rate springs.

Agreed on upgraded susp, proper tires and re-gearing. Brakes are ultra important to me as well. Stock rotors on my F350 are 14.3"F/R, which is pretty good, but bigger is better here IMHO. Since Alcon only makes big brake kits for the F450/550 (https://alconkits.com/products/ford-f550-f450) and not the F350, I may try aftermarket brake pads on my first pad change, maybe something like the Hawk LTS and Centric cryo'd plain rotors.

 

[mog]

gears/locker in boxes in rear seat area

That is about 100 pounds that will be a wash (so not added to your total), as you will be removing the old gears and non-locking unit. That is the equivalent of about 10,761 drilled door handles, or $5,621.56 in carbon fiber replacement bits. Always willing to help ?

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Certainly. An option for my truck was 11,300 GVWR; I believe maybe with the add'l camper package with heavier rate springs.
I may try aftermarket brake pads on my first pad change, maybe something like the Hawk LTS

Good choice! Best pads ever!

Another tidbit of advice for brake upgrades is good quality drilled and/or slotted rotors. They help tremendously.

I've used DBA Australia rotors on all my vehicles (except for current one) for close to 20 years, and have never had to replace one. The set on my 100 series had close to 100k on them!

FUN FACT: When these discussions come up, you'll always have some noobs chime in about "Drilled Rotors Crack" and bla bla bla. Those folks generally buy their parts at Autozone or Walmart.

There isnt a high end sports car made right now that doesnt have drilled rotors.

Something tells me those manufacturers know a bit more than some dude that bought $49 drilled rotors at Autozone and they cracked on his 1997 civic when the Vtec kicked in.

These are the ones i had on my over GVWR Tundra that still looked new after 50k miles and an arctic trip: https://sleeoffroad.com/products/dba-42722s/

I've tried tons of different combos and the DBA Rotors with Hawk LTS pads seems to be the cats meow all around

GVWR is 10,900lbs, so I'm going to be over that, even when being mindful of weights.

Check your PMs for a link to my "I Freaking Told You So Dance" video on youtube.

Platinum Patreon members get the full nude version.

I'll bet 3 tacos you end up in the 12,500-13k range fully loaded and ready to travel

 

[mk216v]

That is about 100 pounds that will be a wash (so not added to your total), as you will be removing the old gears and non-locking unit. That is the equivalent of about 10,761 drilled door handles, or $5,621.56 in carbon fiber replacement bits. Always willing to help ?

True. How much equivalency is it in titanium or magnesium?

Great that you are recording all this. There are so many little variables that it's tough to make the numbers all work, all the time. But I think it's good info for others, myself included. So thx for that.

I think the Ford discrepancy wt (6336#) is for 2wd and the first scale was from Mars

Fwiw, I worked backwards from scale wt #2 and #3 and ended up with a curb of ~7135 and ~7015lbs. That's using your list, and for the tank using the TF listed ship wt for the diesel version at 216lb (say pkging of 16 if there is no pallet). Oem tank est of 30. And fuel at 6.1lb/gal.

Btw I figured my 34gal TF was 150lbs empty. Your total full will be ... yowsa !

Read your other tread on the camper. Looks really interesting. Remarkable if they can pull off that weight, <1000lbs dry for a complete 8' camper. - Not impling they can't - rather that It will be game changer for a hard side.

Be interested to see where the horizontal cog comes in. Prob past your RA centreline but still not too bad due to it being so light.

How you pack, well that's another thing...

ON EDIT almost forgot, will you be trying the 37s with the oem gears first for giggles ?

Never mind, thought you had the 10 speed.

You're welcome.
I believe they've already weighed Mario's prototype on his RAM, hence the 1250lbs wet; which is excellent yes!
No 37s with 3.73s first, main reason is that I need the Carli/King Pintop susp on first before I can add 37s, and the gears/Eaton arrived first before the susp. So gears/Eaton now, then susp, then 37s. **Note; all the research I had done, as well as info from Nitro and East Coast Gear Supply, said that my truck should have the Spicer Advantek 275mm rear end (14bolt). Nope, mine is a Sterling 10.5" (12bolt). Digging further, it looks like the Spicer Advantek 275mm might be for diesel engine only? Looks like it might be Diesel trucks only? https://www.nitro-gear.com/275-mm-4-88-Ratio-Nitro-Ring-Pinion-p/sa275-488-ng.htm Thankfully Will at ECGS offers excellent service, and Yukon had Sterling parts still in stock.

Good choice! Best pads ever!
Another tidbit of advice for brake upgrades is good quality drilled and/or slotted rotors. They help tremendously.
I've used DBA Australia rotors on all my vehicles (except for current one) for close to 20 years, and have never had to replace one. The set on my 100 series had close to 100k on them!
FUN FACT: When these discussions come up, you'll always have some noobs chime in about "Drilled Rotors Crack" and bla bla bla. Those folks generally buy their parts at Autozone or Walmart.
There isnt a high end sports car made right now that doesnt have drilled rotors.
Something tells me those manufacturers know a bit more than some dude that bought $49 drilled rotors at Autozone and they cracked on his 1997 civic when the Vtec kicked in.
These are the ones i had on my over GVWR Tundra that still looked new after 50k miles and an arctic trip: https://sleeoffroad.com/products/dba-42722s/
I've tried tons of different combos and the DBA Rotors with Hawk LTS pads seems to be the cats meow all around

Check your PMs for a link to my "I Freaking Told You So Dance" video on youtube.
Platinum Patreon members get the full nude version.
I'll bet 3 tacos you end up in the 12,500-13k range fully loaded and ready to travel

Glad I have your blessing on the Hawk LTS pads front/rear.
I'd definitely go with slotted rotors if I could find them. Thx for the reminder about DBA AUS; unfortunately they don't have anything for late model F-Series. But that led me back to Centric/Stoptech; they have drilled and/or cryo'd as well, slotted rotors front and rear; https://centricparts.com/automotive.../ford/f-350-super-duty/braking-systems?page=3

https://centricparts.com/automotive-and-light-truck-search/2018/ford/f-350-super-duty/braking-systems?page=4

The noobs may also drill their own holes after casting; booo, bad no no!
BTW, I have seen some stress fractures emanating from Porsche drilled rotors, but that's mainly after lots of hard track days.
Also, I'd love to add Goodridge SS brake lines all around, but golly gee, I don't know why these companies are so far behind the times in implementation. No F-SuperDuty, and not even Raptor's past 2014 or so.

13k GVWR; gah, I hope not! I'll have to add more helium to my 37s.

 

[mk216v]

Update on gears/front Eaton e-locker, as it's been a saga;

#1 After we found the rear of my truck has the Sterling 10.5" vs Advantek 275mm, we got the correct Sterling 10.5" Yukon 4.88 R&P and master install kit shipped from ECGS (Will swapped them out and covered shipping for the return Advantek).
#2 Unboxed the front Yukon 4.88 R&P, found it's the correct part # on the box, but the actual ring gear is too thick, won't fit. Turns out Yukon misboxed it. (Will at ECGS has another, confirms correct part in the correct box, expedites across the country on his dime).
#3 Get the 2nd front Yukon 4.88 R&P; 4 minorly chipped teeth. (Will at ECGS has yet another, expedites another across the country on his dime).
#4 Get the 3rd front Yukon 4.88 R&P; good, installs with the front Eaton E-locker.
#5 Get the rear Yukon 4.88 R&P installed (remember I have factory Ford E-locker in the rear, so no change needed there). Truck is driven a short distance; noticeable whine under acceleration (no whine stock). Let gears cool a bit. Truck driven again, more throttle and higher speed ~35mph. Whine increases with speed and mainly only under throttle, definitely sounds like it's coming from the rear. Seasoned pro installer discusses with Will at ECGS; all measurements/specs are correct, final pattern set good. Yukon doesn't provide warranty for any whine. Installer/ECGS have never had these issues with boxing/manufacturing/noise issues with Yukon.
#6 I decide to try a Nitro rear 4.88 R&P. It's on its way now from Will. Hopefully it's quiet for the rear and all will be good finally.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Update on gears/front Eaton e-locker, as it's been a saga;

#1 After we found the rear of my truck has the Sterling 10.5" vs Advantek 275mm, we got the correct Sterling 10.5" Yukon 4.88 R&P and master install kit shipped from ECGS (Will swapped them out and covered shipping for the return Advantek).
#2 Unboxed the front Yukon 4.88 R&P, found it's the correct part # on the box, but the actual ring gear is too thick, won't fit. Turns out Yukon misboxed it. (Will at ECGS has another, confirms correct part in the correct box, expedites across the country on his dime).
#3 Get the 2nd front Yukon 4.88 R&P; 4 minorly chipped teeth. (Will at ECGS has yet another, expedites another across the country on his dime).
#4 Get the 3rd front Yukon 4.88 R&P; good, installs with the front Eaton E-locker.
#5 Get the rear Yukon 4.88 R&P installed (remember I have factory Ford E-locker in the rear, so no change needed there). Truck is driven a short distance; noticeable whine under acceleration (no whine stock). Let gears cool a bit. Truck driven again, more throttle and higher speed ~35mph. Whine increases with speed and mainly only under throttle, definitely sounds like it's coming from the rear. Seasoned pro installer discusses with Will at ECGS; all measurements/specs are correct, Yukon doesn't provide warranty for any whine. Installer/ECGS have never had these issues with boxing/manufacturing/noise issues with Yukon.
#6 I decide to try a Nitro rear 4.88 R&P. It's on its way now from Will. Hopefully it's quiet for the rear and all will be good finally.

Any updates on the racing stripes?

 

[mk216v]

Any updates on the racing stripes?

Have not yet tried laying a set down with the 4.88's, no.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

 

[montypower]

Gear drama... That's been my experience with aftermarket gears. Even done by pros. They don't last or have issues (and expensive). Hard to beat the factory 4.30s (for cost and lack of drama).

Hope you can get it sorted out!