I think you hit the nail on the head, perhaps our last hope for the brand is the yet to be spied Defender, although I do not place much there. I'll just try to keep my '06 LR3 going I guess. It smells like coolant, the interior is falling apart and it feels more overweight every day but I have had a blast with it.
2019 LR Discovery SVX
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
I think you hit the nail on the head, perhaps our last hope for the brand is the yet to be spied Defender, although I do not place much there. I'll just try to keep my '06 LR3 going I guess. It smells like coolant, the interior is falling apart and it feels more overweight every day but I have had a blast with it.
ryandavenport
Adventurer
I find myself agreeing with this. Every Disco launch since Disco 2 (that I remember) has been this way. The LR3 is the one that I remember most, and it's inarguably one of the best off-road vehicles ever built by Land Rover. I don't have any doubt that this will still perform extremely well off road.
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EricTyrrell
Expo God
Stock, it's the most capable yet, on a closed course. Out in reality, those 20" wheels wont let it go offroad any real distance (you know, overland..). Stock, it's also the most feminine, plain-jane, small, and non-utilitarian yet. When we checked one out at ABFM my wife asked why these regular cars were so expensive.
Stock-for-stock, the numbers all look better than anything before it. That's a given. The styling isn't doing much for us, the enthusiast, yet, but it is beginning to grow in me as I see more (lightly) mod'ed versions begin to show up. As with each generation of vehicle, it will take some time for us to get used to it. And also as with each new generation, it gets harder and harder for the aftermarket to provide mods for it. More integrated manufacturing and various economy and crash standards mean the days of a simple bolt-on bumper or suspension lift are past. Land Rover is not alone in this - it's true of most every vehicle. Even the vaunted Wrangler is creeping this direction and it's one of the very few hold-outs for simple bolt-on parts, body on frame construction, and live axles.
We are a vocal but small minority in the big scheme of things. The Disco is walking a line between comfy luxury cruiser and off-road capable utility. Does that sound familiar? You can easily use that exact line with every generation of Disco.
Of course we're all holding out hope for the next Defender as it's always been the flagship for Rover's off-road fleet. And of course we're all worried that the new one won't meet our expectations. All we can do is wait and see - Rover most certainly knows what we want and would gladly build a basic rugged work capable truck ... if they could make it meet all the other requirements of governments world-wide while finding a big enough market to justify the expense and keep the cost in check. Clearly that's a tall order, and it was the death of the Defender we've known and loved for decades. We know the next version can't be the same as the last so let's hope Rover's solutions fit our needs. No doubt a great many won't be satisfied with anything as for them there can be no replacement but again, I still hold out some hope. Different, yes. But hopefully still good.
We are a vocal but small minority in the big scheme of things. The Disco is walking a line between comfy luxury cruiser and off-road capable utility. Does that sound familiar? You can easily use that exact line with every generation of Disco.
Of course we're all holding out hope for the next Defender as it's always been the flagship for Rover's off-road fleet. And of course we're all worried that the new one won't meet our expectations. All we can do is wait and see - Rover most certainly knows what we want and would gladly build a basic rugged work capable truck ... if they could make it meet all the other requirements of governments world-wide while finding a big enough market to justify the expense and keep the cost in check. Clearly that's a tall order, and it was the death of the Defender we've known and loved for decades. We know the next version can't be the same as the last so let's hope Rover's solutions fit our needs. No doubt a great many won't be satisfied with anything as for them there can be no replacement but again, I still hold out some hope. Different, yes. But hopefully still good.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
If Dodge can offer the Power Wagon, Jeep the Wrangler, Mercedes the G and Sprinter, Ford the Super Duty, and Toyota the TRD-Pro series, I call bull**** on this "metro soft-roader design is necessary and we need to get use to it" idea. They could make a well designed and iconic vehicle, but instead choose to chase the status symbol seeking city crowd who'd like to look like they "could" get dirty if they wanted to. It only needs to be capable on paper and for short distances, hence the debilitating 20" wheels, flacid tail-gate, and tiny cabin. Face it, other than its theoretical capability, it's no different now than any other car, except in expense and status.
Apples and oranges.
The Sprinter, Power Wagon, Super Duty, and Yota (really, isn't the TRD Pro stuff just a tape and stripe kit with better shocks?) are completely different classes of vehicle and don't have the same restraints for economy, crash standards, etc. That's about as accurate as saying if a Peterbuilt can get 6 mpg why can't a Honda?
The G is comparable by class (i.e. both SUVs) but not by market. The G is near double the price and would more compete with the Defender than a Disco. Again, a hard comparison.
The Wrangler is also in the same class in that it's an SUV and is actually priced below the Disco5. But again, a different market than the Disco which would be closer to the GC. I have written repeatedly here and other places about how I'd like to see the next Defender go toe-to-toe with a Rubi in terms of technical terrain capability but retain more cargo capacity and stay within about $10K of the Rubi - Say $50K. I'm not holding my breath but that's what I'd like.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have the things you talk about. Smaller wheels/bigger tires; less gimmicks and doo-dads to drive up price and weight while adding complexity; I don't need 550 hp for an off-road rig; I don't want 7 seats; I want a more basic platform that i can built to my taste. But that's not what the market (and the EPA, NTSC, etc) demand in this class vehicle. It's better than most of it's competitors but doesn't go as far as we would like. Like every major change before it, I suspect we'll come to appreciate it more with time. And for now we remain hopeful that they'll do the Defender justice when it arrives.
I'm guessing you must daily a Series, right? As everything else would be too soft and complete crap. You seem extremely angry, like somebody ran over your dog. Maybe you should have a Snickers.
The Sprinter, Power Wagon, Super Duty, and Yota (really, isn't the TRD Pro stuff just a tape and stripe kit with better shocks?) are completely different classes of vehicle and don't have the same restraints for economy, crash standards, etc. That's about as accurate as saying if a Peterbuilt can get 6 mpg why can't a Honda?
The G is comparable by class (i.e. both SUVs) but not by market. The G is near double the price and would more compete with the Defender than a Disco. Again, a hard comparison.
The Wrangler is also in the same class in that it's an SUV and is actually priced below the Disco5. But again, a different market than the Disco which would be closer to the GC. I have written repeatedly here and other places about how I'd like to see the next Defender go toe-to-toe with a Rubi in terms of technical terrain capability but retain more cargo capacity and stay within about $10K of the Rubi - Say $50K. I'm not holding my breath but that's what I'd like.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have the things you talk about. Smaller wheels/bigger tires; less gimmicks and doo-dads to drive up price and weight while adding complexity; I don't need 550 hp for an off-road rig; I don't want 7 seats; I want a more basic platform that i can built to my taste. But that's not what the market (and the EPA, NTSC, etc) demand in this class vehicle. It's better than most of it's competitors but doesn't go as far as we would like. Like every major change before it, I suspect we'll come to appreciate it more with time. And for now we remain hopeful that they'll do the Defender justice when it arrives.
I'm guessing you must daily a Series, right? As everything else would be too soft and complete crap. You seem extremely angry, like somebody ran over your dog. Maybe you should have a Snickers.
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EricTyrrell
Expo God
LR3. It's a big box that goes anywhere. There's nothing else like it on the market for the price. All they needed to do was enlarge the tiny tires to 31s stock, lighten the pig, update/improve the engineering/tech package, update the engine, and refresh the design. Instead, we got a smaller heart-shaped box that goes anywhere until it gets a flat.
Jwestpro
Explorer
The 20" wheels are unfortunately with us to stay - the cars are getting more powerful engines, with faster acceleration, and require bigger brake discs - and these don't fit in smaller rims, unfortunately. Brake performance has always been an issue with older Toyotas and Defenders with 16" and 17" wheels - my Azalai converted Def 130 was hopeless on standard brakes - eventually, I had to convince my dealer, unofficially, to install special Brembo brakes that had been developed for and available only to the army (cost me 4000 Euros, this wonderful option)... Time to get used to this.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
Funny how a far heavier full-size trucks, rated to tow far more, can stop just fine on itty bitty 16" wheels.
Please tell us how you're going to "get used" to overlanding on 20" wheels. Grit your teeth while every other rock eats those fancy wheels? Bring more spares on the non-existent rear tire carrier?
EricTyrrell
Expo God
Someone better inform the Tahoe that boxy utilitarian vehicles aren't feasible anymore. As for the others, yes they're all very different, but what they prove is that boxy, utilitarian vehicles are not only possible, but being manufactured and sold every day.
Jwestpro
Explorer
Furthermore, the "needs bigger brakes" argument is pure BS when the newer "faster" vehicles are also getting LIGHTER !!!!!!!!!!!! Complete bull****. My LR3 weighs 50% more than a new Discovery 5..... my brakes working fantastically are now the smaller v6 sized rotors and there's no problem at all with emergency braking force.
The real truth is moronic consumers buy into this bigger wheels thing which simply allows manufacturing of larger brakes purely as a cost savings method to achieve same braking performance as on previous smaller equipment.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
Those are still pretty high profile considering the cross section width.
