2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[treckin]

From the Accessories page:

View attachment 538200

Fantastic, already have a 12S plat so it should pop right in ?

 

[nickw]

Nope they are 3rd party dealers. They can price them however they like.

There may be dealers that play the ADM games....but there are always ones that dont.

 

[DieselRanger]

Nope they are 3rd party dealers. They can price them however they like.

Here's how this works. They are not a high volume manufacturer, so the usual laws of supply and demand that apply to first editions of things like mid-engined Corvettes and Toyota Supras don't exactly apply here.

Land Rover Dealers get an allocation based on their market size and sales volume until such time as production volume ramps up and they can meet target inventory ages. Land Rover is very jealous of their reputation, and so if they get reports of price gouging on early models then they restrict the allocation for that dealer in that market. If people don't complain, then Land Rover is generally none the wiser, but their regional reps travel quite frequently. Whereas Toyota and Chevy will restrict their supply initially to pump up demand and then release a large supply to generate sales volume, Land Rover can't do that, even with their new Slovakia plant. So they will only sell their cars to dealers who are moving them to satisfied customers. There will only be a few gotta-have-it-first customers in each market, and the ones that matter to each dealer are always the first in line, just as Porsche and Ferrari and Aston have their "special" customers. Everyone else gets in line. I was in the fourth or fifth allocation for my Discovery - no premium, I just put down a deposit 3 mos before release and waited about 6 or 8 mos for mine to show up.

If you think automakers have no power to influence what the dealers do, then you haven't been paying attention to other automakers like Genesis/Hyundai and Volkswagen/Audi. Land Rover is currently making several dealers improve their service centers and showrooms, likely dangling additional allocations of the Defender in front of them.

Sure, dealers can try to offer whatever price they want, but the vehicles will sell for what they're worth to the buyer. Just tweet Land Rover USA about price gauging in your local market and go find yourself a dealer in a smaller market and place your order there.

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.

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[mpinco]

One of the biggest disappointments for me is the cost adder of the P400 at $12K over the base 2.0L and no other options. That immediately puts you in the $70K-$80K range with just a few options. The Discovery diesel is +$2K. Theoretically that could have been a $53/54K Defender base model, not $62K.

Also agree that dealers will offer $80K Defenders, not $49K.

 

[mpinco]

Appears the Defender pickup has already been cancelled.

Land Rover Drops Plans For Defender Pickup Truck, Explains Why

 

[naks]

Nailed it!
https://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/22767...that-the-new-land-rover-defender-needs-to?amp

'It’s time everyone woke up to the fact that the new Land Rover Defender needs to change'
The market for this car isn't a mythical throng of utility workers and cattle herders, it's suburban families who dream of G-wagens
by: Richard Porter
11 Jun 2019

Do you remember the Bank Holiday Bond-a-thon episode of I’m Alan Partridge where the lead character listens with horror as his guests misremember 007’s adventures and eventually cries in anguish, ‘STOP GETTING BOND WRONG’? Well that’s how I feel about the new Land Rover Defender.

You probably know there’s a new Defender coming. It’s been a while because the original was extinguished by regulations while Land Rover was too busy engineering other models to make a new one, and had nowhere to build it anyway. That’s all taken care of now, and later this year we’ll see a new model. A few months ago you might have spotted a leaked picture of what’s claimed to be the dashboard. You might have also noticed a hubbub of reaction to it, much of it so misguided that I wanted to walk outside to my old-style Defender and slam my head in the tailgate.

When the new car finally appears I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed, because right now they’re doing the car equivalent of getting Bond wrong. ‘I hope the new Defender is true to its roots,’ they say, but what does that mean? Central steering wheel? Only one colour? Flappy, half-height doors?

I think what they’re really suggesting is that it should be a supreme off-roader like the old one, but that’s not entirely accurate because in its twilight years the original Defender wasn’t even the best off-roader in the Land Rover range. It was good, but it hadn’t got any chops that couldn’t be matched by an air-sprung, traction-controlled Range Rover.

In fact, Solihull people would quietly admit, the surprise off-road star in recent years was the old Range Rover Sport which, having a short wheelbase and modern chassis systems, just needed chunky tyres to show a Defender 90 the way home. In the current range, even the Discovery with its big overhangs and ******** like Anne Robinson’s smile is remarkably competent off-road, so you can bet the new Defender will be just fine if you need to drive it up a landslide.

But I don’t think this is all that’s meant by ‘true to its roots’. I think it also suggests a kind of simplicity, which is why people who like getting Bond wrong always seem to use the phrase ‘hose-out interior’. What madness is this? I wouldn’t hose out the interior of my old Defender, because it’s got cloth seats and a stereo. When was the last time anyone hosed out the interior of a car? Have you ever sat in a car that’s been in water? It stinks and then fogs up like a bastard so you crash into the river from which you just escaped. I’m sure the new Defender will be quite rugged and full of artful touches that make it seem outdoorsy, but it’s not going to be bog-basic because that’s not the market it’ll aim at. And this is where people really are getting Bond wrong.

‘Oh no,’ they wail, ‘it’s going to be a “lifestyle” off-roader.’ Well, yes. ‘But,’ they cry, ‘it should be for proper Defender drivers like the army and farmers.’ Now come on people, pay a-frigging-ttention here. The army only bought Defenders because they had to, and now they’ve decided they don’t like bullets coming into the cabin they’re relieved to be ordering more bespoke machines, just as Land Rover is relieved not to be dealing with the ******** ache of government tendering processes. As for farmers, they switched to Mitsubishis and Toyotas years ago because they’re more dependable and more affordable.

You can have a Hilux for 20 grand, ex-VAT. The new Defender will not cost that. ‘Well it should,’ splutter Bond-wrongers. Yes, yes, yes, but it can’t. The cheapest model in the current Land Rover range is the Discovery Sport, which starts at a little over £30,000. The new Defender, which will be bigger and built on a fancy platform meant for Range Rovers, can’t undercut that. And why should it when the market for this new car is not a mythical throng of utility workers and cattle herders but, whether you like it or not, suburban families who currently have Discovery 4s and dream of Mercedes G-wagens?

After all, they’re the sort of people who have 45 grand to spend or, more likely, can run to the chunky monthlies on a PCP scheme. This is how Land Rover will survive in these tricky times, by making an expensive car that sells to well-heeled people for more than it costs to make, not by delivering on some deluded 1950s yeomanry fantasy for PC-bound pundits who aren’t going to buy one anyway.

I know nothing about the actual spec of the new Defender, but I’m going to say with confidence, it won’t be cheap, it won’t be basic and it won’t like it at all if you turn a hose on the interior. If you’re holding out for any of that you’re ignoring what will make it sell and what will keep the company making it alive.

So please, come on, for the love of God, stop getting Bond wrong.

 

[Bayou Boy]

What's the payload of a Rav4 again?

1000-1200# Same as a Wrangler Unlimited or a loaded half ton truck.

My point is, you don't need some mythical "Overland" vehicle to go on roads, dirt or not, anywhere in the world today.

(That Rav4 will be much more likely to complete the trip without a single mechanical failure also...)

 

[XJLI]

Holy MOLY this thread is bonkers.

 

[blackangie]

What's the over/under on that being a $10k option?

Edit: also not available for another 12 months...

Dude, are you ok?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[blackangie]

Here's how this works. They are not a high volume manufacturer, so the usual laws of supply and demand that apply to first editions of things like mid-engined Corvettes and Toyota Supras don't exactly apply here.

Land Rover Dealers get an allocation based on their market size and sales volume until such time as production volume ramps up and they can meet target inventory ages. Land Rover is very jealous of their reputation, and so if they get reports of price gouging on early models then they restrict the allocation for that dealer in that market. If people don't complain, then Land Rover is generally none the wiser, but their regional reps travel quite frequently. Whereas Toyota and Chevy will restrict their supply initially to pump up demand and then release a large supply to generate sales volume, Land Rover can't do that, even with their new Slovakia plant. So they will only sell their cars to dealers who are moving them to satisfied customers. There will only be a few gotta-have-it-first customers in each market, and the ones that matter to each dealer are always the first in line, just as Porsche and Ferrari and Aston have their "special" customers. Everyone else gets in line. I was in the fourth or fifth allocation for my Discovery - no premium, I just put down a deposit 3 mos before release and waited about 6 or 8 mos for mine to show up.

If you think automakers have no power to influence what the dealers do, then you haven't been paying attention to other automakers like Genesis/Hyundai and Volkswagen/Audi. Land Rover is currently making several dealers improve their service centers and showrooms, likely dangling additional allocations of the Defender in front of them.

Sure, dealers can try to offer whatever price they want, but the vehicles will sell for what they're worth to the buyer. Just tweet Land Rover USA about price gauging in your local market and go find yourself a dealer in a smaller market and place your order there.

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk

Dealers get allocated based on market potential, historical and preorders etc.
Then people can order what they want in watever spec they want.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Has anyone here had an experience with that 2.0 engine?
Is it going to be enough for a loaded 110?

Not with the new 2.0, but the Jag 4.4L that’s been in the majority of the 06-09 Range Rovers and LR3’s has almost identical hp/tq specs. The twin turbo will deal with high alititudes better, has 2 more gears, and the vehicle is 900 lbs lighter.

Land Rover just doesn’t seem to come up with exciting marketing labels like other manufacturers.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

I’ve defended the new Defender, but IMO cancelling the pickup version is a huge mistake, and building the 130 with the same wheelbase as the 110 is an even bigger one.

A 130” wheelbase is ideal to me for an all around rig. I had a Suburban with the same wheelbase, despite being 900 lbs lighter it tows MUCH better (more stable, less sway) than my LR3 (113”) on the interstate. It’s the same size as a regular cab longbed pickup, so it’s not difficult to park anywhere but the most cramped places, allows tons of room inside even with a 3rd row, and has the best compromise of approach, departure, breakover angles.

Putting 8,000 lbs behind a short wheelbase (119” on the 110) rig isn’t wise, and the biggest complaint about the Gladiator pickup is the wheelbase is too long for off-road use at 137”

They might be hard to drive according to LR testers, but plenty of soccer moms manage rigs that size daily. I’ll bet I see 100 or more Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade ESV’s driving around today. They are what people with 3 kids and a decent income buy.

Similarly, 4 door mini bed (under 6’) 1/2 ton luxury pickups are what it seems 75% of the guys in this town drive, even if they live in a subdivision and don’t hunt or own tools. People are paying $65k for F-150 platinums and GMC Denali’s, which is right where the Defender pickup would be.

It seems they literally don’t open their eyes and look around at what’s selling like mad.

 

[DieselRanger]

Dealers get allocated based on market potential, historical and preorders etc.
Then people can order what they want in watever spec they want.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Yes, if that wasn't clear from my post, that's the order of things. Point is, dealers who charge a premium to order ahead put their allocation in jeopardy.

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[DieselRanger]

Nailed it!
https://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/22767...that-the-new-land-rover-defender-needs-to?amp

So much THIS. Most of the people on this thread have never even seen the last Defender made, much less sat in or driven one.

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[uzj100]

I’ve defended the new Defender, but IMO cancelling the pickup version is a huge mistake, and building the 130 with the same wheelbase as the 110 is an even bigger one.

A 130” wheelbase is ideal to me for an all around rig. I had a Suburban with the same wheelbase, despite being 900 lbs lighter it tows MUCH better (more stable, less sway) than my LR3 (113”) on the interstate. It’s the same size as a regular cab longbed pickup, so it’s not difficult to park anywhere but the most cramped places, allows tons of room inside even with a 3rd row, and has the best compromise of approach, departure, breakover angles.

Putting 8,000 lbs behind a short wheelbase (119” on the 110) rig isn’t wise, and the biggest complaint about the Gladiator pickup is the wheelbase is too long for off-road use at 137”

They might be hard to drive according to LR testers, but plenty of soccer moms manage rigs that size daily. I’ll bet I see 100 or more Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade ESV’s driving around today. They are what people with 3 kids and a decent income buy.

Similarly, 4 door mini bed (under 6’) 1/2 ton luxury pickups are what it seems 75% of the guys in this town drive, even if they live in a subdivision and don’t hunt or own tools. People are paying $65k for F-150 platinums and GMC Denali’s, which is right where the Defender pickup would be.

It seems they literally don’t open their eyes and look around at what’s selling like mad.

Yes sir - lots of guys in Raleigh drive 70k plus pickups and don't haul anything, hunt, fish, or every engage 4wd. I like the way my 112 inch wheelbase 100 rides and handles on and off road. I will never understand driving a vehicle that big and with that kind of wheelbase in the city.