2020 EarthCruiser?

[gregmchugh]

I saw that, and looks neat, but...

1) I haven't seen any real world reviews
2) Unless I'm missing something, the heater (air) needs to be running on high to warm the water and the tank is pretty small

I am thinking of the EcoSmart 4 or 6 gallon self contained unit

The electric one doesn’t use hot air, just needs 12v power, but the tank is small so maybe not enough capacity for what you need. 6 liter tank may be enough if you set it to the highest temp setting and mix with cold water at the facucet.

Here is one used on a Unimog build...

Truck Update 11/17/19

We just finished the hot water heater installation. While we were working on the water system modification, we also added the provision to winterize the water system. We made a little fitting that …

wabisabioverland.com

The Ecosmart will have more capacity but higher power requirements.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

The electric one doesn’t use hot air, just needs 12v power, but the tank is small so maybe not enough capacity for what you need. 6 liter tank may be enough if you set it to the highest temp setting and mix with cold water at the facucet.

Here is one used on a Unimog build...

Truck Update 11/17/19

We just finished the hot water heater installation. While we were working on the water system modification, we also added the provision to winterize the water system. We made a little fitting that …

wabisabioverland.com

The Ecosmart will have more capacity but higher power requirements.

Yeah, I am going to have a pretty hefty power bank (1000ah +/-) so should be good on that end.

Looking for simplicity mostly

Debating between the EcoSmart and the Isotemp as of now, but open to other options I may be missing

 

[gregmchugh]

Yeah, I am going to have a pretty hefty power bank (1000ah +/-) so should be good on that end.

Looking for simplicity mostly

Debating between the EcoSmart and the Isotemp as of now, but open to other options I may be missing

So, would you also run engine coolant through the Isotemp to heat water or just use the electric element?

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

So, would you also run engine coolant through the Isotemp to heat water or just use the electric element?

Electric element only.

Don’t want to tie into/mess with coolant system on a brand new truck and risk warranty issues

 

[Victorian]

I saw that, and looks neat, but...

1) I haven't seen any real world reviews
2) Unless I'm missing something, the heater (air) needs to be running on high to warm the water and the tank is pretty small

I am thinking of the EcoSmart 4 or 6 gallon self contained unit

the 12v boilers are new to North America. Therefore it’s hard to find reviews in English.. in Germany on the other hand there are tons of wonderful positive real world reviews. That was the reason for us to bring that great product into North America. We cant bring them in fast enough, usually selling out before they arrive! Send me a pm and I can tell you forum members that use them.

 

[lucilius]

I have not, so here it goes!

The primary difference between the V8 and the diesel platforms, as it relates to road travel, would be the top speed and pick-up. While the diesel units are good in both of these areas, the V8 chassis is definitely an upgrade. My trip from Chicago to Bend a few weeks ago was certainly an experience, including an almost two day road closure in Wyoming. A road closure that I thought I could get around at first with a detour down 230 out of Laramie south into Colorado and then back up to Rawlins....(MISTAKE!) 230/130 during a snow/wind storm was challenging (to say the least)
Luckily, I was in one of the most capable 4x4 vehicles in our industry..(IMHO) and almost 4 hrs later I was back on I-80....still closed!
But, I am getting sidetracked...
The majority of the drive was uneventful and I was able to run consistently at speeds in excess of 80 mph! Mostly I kept the cruise set around 78 mph though. It was nice to be running 70 mph and know you had a "kick" left for passing. She pulled up grades with ease and the custom EarthCruiser reprogrammed Allison just seemed to know when to shift to keep a nice steady "pull" uphill.
The truck handled like a dream even though the demo V8 didn't even have our new hydraulic steering assist installed yet.
I was concerned that the additional tire size (37" Toyo's up from 35") might give the front end a more "squishy" feeling, but I can say that I was very impressed at how stable and responsive the front end felt.
Braking was fantastic, the new V8 has 4 wheel disc brakes and they perform wonderfully. In fact, the reason the EC was in the Midwest to begin with is that we had her at a national brake testing facility in Ohio prior to the Chicago Boat Show. Brake testing is something we take very seriously, as you would expect, and our new disc system passed with flying colors. And after a couple of thousand miles behind the wheel in some pretty "hilly" conditions, I can concur that this system is well equipped to answer the call.

Sounds perfect, couple of questions: is fuel tank capacity 60 gallons, what are the front/rear GAWR's and what sort of actual front and rear axle weights have you seen on a "loaded" (fuel, water, passengers) EXP, and finally, any idea what your avg mpg was at 78mph?
I'm intrigued by the "Omega" but looking forward to learning more about this gas model, with crew cab.

 

[lucilius]

Electric element only.

Don’t want to tie into/mess with coolant system on a brand new truck and risk warranty issues

2cents: While it would be a doable retrofit after the fact, probably not as easy to do afterwards vs when you install the heater...if you're mid-build and esp. if it involves going through the camper hull, I'd consider at least installing+stubbing out two lengths of hose that you can hook up later.
I also don't think you would need to do anything permanent/irreversible to your engine coolant system by tying it into your water heating system.
Electric-only water heating, particularly in winter/cold climates where your water needs to be warmed up from low 40's to high temp takes a lot of electricity (and in winter your batteries will already be somewhat compromised). Even in summer, IME, one of the only things that'll run your batteries down faster than getting/keeping your water hot with an electric water heater is an air conditioner. Being able to use your engine for "free" water heating is very handy. If you use the right fittings (marine grade) and hose (high temp silicone or marine exhaust hose) and build the system properly, it will be reliable. I'd recommend having manual shut-off valves that allow the engine coolant loop to be opened or isolated completely and also adjusted so you can limit the amount of hot coolant flow i.e. in summer when the engine coolant temp could be running well over 200F. It's a simple loop with some valves, the main risk is a hose or fitting failure that would lead to a leak. I suppose one option would be to build the system but leave it closed off and not connected to the engine. That way you can see if your batteries truly are up to the challenge, they in fact might be. If not, all you have to do is connect two hoses and you're in business.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

2cents: While it would be a doable retrofit after the fact, probably not as easy to do afterwards vs when you install the heater...if you're mid-build and esp. if it involves going through the camper hull, I'd consider at least installing+stubbing out two lengths of hose that you can hook up later.
I also don't think you would need to do anything permanent/irreversible to your engine coolant system by tying it into your water heating system.
Electric-only water heating, particularly in winter/cold climates where your water needs to be warmed up from low 40's to high temp takes a lot of electricity (and in winter your batteries will already be somewhat compromised). Even in summer, IME, one of the only things that'll run your batteries down faster than getting/keeping your water hot with an electric water heater is an air conditioner. Being able to use your engine for "free" water heating is very handy. If you use the right fittings (marine grade) and hose (high temp silicone or marine exhaust hose) and build the system properly, it will be reliable. I'd recommend having manual shut-off valves that allow the engine coolant loop to be opened or isolated completely and also adjusted so you can limit the amount of hot coolant flow i.e. in summer when the engine coolant temp could be running well over 200F. It's a simple loop with some valves, the main risk is a hose or fitting failure that would lead to a leak. I suppose one option would be to build the system but leave it closed off and not connected to the engine. That way you can see if your batteries truly are up to the challenge, they in fact might be. If not, all you have to do is connect two hoses and you're in business.

Sir, that is some damn good advice, excellent points and great idea!

Thank you very much for a well thought out reply. I am going to look more into this for sure!

 

[lucilius]

Sir, that is some damn good advice, excellent points and great idea!

Thank you very much for a well thought out reply. I am going to look more into this for sure!

I think you mentioned in an earlier post you didn't want to use an addt'l heater...I note this because as you finalize your design plan, realize it is a very simple thing to plug an Espar into the "loop" and I'm pretty sure no warranty impact. It'll run you about a grand or so and a straightforward DIY. This would be one alternative that would allow you to either just heat your water with diesel (Espar) to save electricity, electric (when you're on shore power) and if/when hooked to your engine, get hot water anytime you're driving/idling. IME, small 6.5gallon Isotherm square and basic models take about an hour of engine or Espar running (low - high = 1 - 4 amps draw and burn .08 - .16 gallons per hr...that's ~1-3 cups of diesel per hr) to get hot from start temp of ~40F and once they're hot, if mounted inside the insulated camper, they'll stay pretty hot with no additional heat for 6-8hrs at least. The Espar will also preheat your engine in winter. You'll basically be building a circuit for the hot coolant to run through the electric water heater, the Espar and the motor. You choose how you want the hot water given the circumstances. You'll need good hose, clamps, 3-4 full flow lever-controlled ball valves (the first three allow you to isolate the flow from the vehicle engine, the 4th allows you to pinch the flow), pipe to hose connectors and a pair of Tee fittings. There are a few configurations, depending on what you want to do: To envision a basic config, think of (or better yet draw) a flattened oval (this is your hot coolant circuit). Let's assume the coolant is flowing in a clockwise direction with the water heater and [optionally] espar located in the circuit around the 9 o'clock and the vehicle motor at the 3 o'clock. Remember, every one of these devices has a coolant inflow and outflow hose connection, and they're just plugged into the circuit, providing heat (engine, espar, electric htr elements) or absorbing/holding (hot water tank) heat via the circuit. Install a ball valve at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions, connect each to a Tee connector just to the right, and then connect the two Tee's with another ball valve (oriented "vertically"), essentially allowing you to cut your oval coolant circuit in half when toggled on/off to isolate the flow....the 4th ball valve would be located in the ~2 o'clock position (just before coolant from the heater(s) enters the vehicle engine) so that in hot weather/high temp conditions, the flow of coolant flowing to the espar/water htr is slowed to a trickle because the coolant circuit has been slowed..so you don't unnecessarily overheat your water heater, most htrs have a pressure release valve that kicks off at a preset temp/bar around 200-210F IME. Alternately, when you close your 6 and 12 o'clock ball valves and open the "vertical" ball valve, your engine coolant will flow on it's own shortened circuit just not to the espar/water heater. None of these will do anything negative to impact your engine's ability to cool itself: all the coolant in your "circuit" is extra and any use of it will actually help cool your coolant (my diesel coolant temp runs about 5F cooler with the circuit open and everything is warmed up) because it is dropping heat throughout the system, even if your hot water tank is already hot, the whole circuit is going to be radiating some heat. The configuration I've just described is the total package but the same principles could easily be applied to just employ the espar and your electric water heater with no connection to the engine, or just the engine and the electric water heater and no espar. For hose, check out Gates Durion (you can order this at O'reilly auto, pricey but good to 400F, use their clamps too, they don't cut into the silicone) and Groco and Apollo SS and/or bronze inline ball valves, pipe-to-hose connectors and Tees are easy to work with and marine grade so they'll last a while underneath/outside your rig.

 

[gregmchugh]

So, once you put in a diesel hydronic heater and the Isotherm water heater with an electric element you do have the option of doing cabin heat using the diesel hydronic system instead of a diesel air heater. Lots of options once you go with the hydronic cabin heat (e.g., radiator in the bathroom is nice to keep it warm and dry out towels). How much cold weather camping are you planning for would be a factor.

 

[lucilius]

Sounds perfect, couple of questions: is fuel tank capacity 60 gallons, what are the front/rear GAWR's and what sort of actual front and rear axle weights have you seen on a "loaded" (fuel, water, passengers) EXP, and finally, any idea what your avg mpg was at 78mph?
I'm intrigued by the "Omega" but looking forward to learning more about this gas model, with crew cab.

Thought I'd bump this in case it was lost. Interested.

 

[lucilius]

I have not, so here it goes!

The primary difference between the V8 and the diesel platforms, as it relates to road travel, would be the top speed and pick-up. While the diesel units are good in both of these areas, the V8 chassis is definitely an upgrade. My trip from Chicago to Bend a few weeks ago was certainly an experience, including an almost two day road closure in Wyoming. A road closure that I thought I could get around at first with a detour down 230 out of Laramie south into Colorado and then back up to Rawlins....(MISTAKE!) 230/130 during a snow/wind storm was challenging (to say the least)
Luckily, I was in one of the most capable 4x4 vehicles in our industry..(IMHO) and almost 4 hrs later I was back on I-80....still closed!
But, I am getting sidetracked...
The majority of the drive was uneventful and I was able to run consistently at speeds in excess of 80 mph! Mostly I kept the cruise set around 78 mph though. It was nice to be running 70 mph and know you had a "kick" left for passing. She pulled up grades with ease and the custom EarthCruiser reprogrammed Allison just seemed to know when to shift to keep a nice steady "pull" uphill.
The truck handled like a dream even though the demo V8 didn't even have our new hydraulic steering assist installed yet.
I was concerned that the additional tire size (37" Toyo's up from 35") might give the front end a more "squishy" feeling, but I can say that I was very impressed at how stable and responsive the front end felt.
Braking was fantastic, the new V8 has 4 wheel disc brakes and they perform wonderfully. In fact, the reason the EC was in the Midwest to begin with is that we had her at a national brake testing facility in Ohio prior to the Chicago Boat Show. Brake testing is something we take very seriously, as you would expect, and our new disc system passed with flying colors. And after a couple of thousand miles behind the wheel in some pretty "hilly" conditions, I can concur that this system is well equipped to answer the call.

I think my questions rel to your 2020 Earthcruiser post above keep getting lost in the shuffle:
Is fuel tank capacity likely to stay at 60 gallons or will/could there be a need for an auxiliary tank to increase range?
What are the front/rear GAWR's and what sort of actual front and rear axle weights have you seen on a "loaded" (fuel, water, passengers) ?
Any idea what your avg mpg was at 78mph?

I'm intrigued by the "Omega" Model on your website (and question the logic of discontinuing the diesel motor option) but looking forward to learning more about this gas model, esp. with crew cab. I have never been in a loaded petrol-powered truck that performed particularly well at high-altitude/mountains vs turbodiesels or got good mileage in any sense, particularly when climbing passes, but am hopeful the new EC motor is different and from your account it sounds like this rig has potential. Thank you.

 

[gregmchugh]

I think my questions rel to your 2020 Earthcruiser post above keep getting lost in the shuffle:
Is fuel tank capacity likely to stay at 60 gallons or will/could there be a need for an auxiliary tank to increase range?
What are the front/rear GAWR's and what sort of actual front and rear axle weights have you seen on a "loaded" (fuel, water, passengers) ?
Any idea what your avg mpg was at 78mph?

I'm intrigued by the "Omega" Model on your website (and question the logic of discontinuing the diesel motor option) but looking forward to learning more about this gas model, esp. with crew cab. I have never been in a loaded petrol-powered truck that performed particularly well at high-altitude/mountains vs turbodiesels or got good mileage in any sense, particularly when climbing passes, but am hopeful the new EC motor is different and from your account it sounds like this rig has potential. Thank you.

There is no diesel Fuso available now in the U.S., only the gasoline engine.

 

[lucilius]

There is no diesel Fuso available now in the U.S., only the gasoline engine.

I’d heard similar but don’t believe I was asking about diesel Fuso availability, perhaps you mean the Omega is now sold? That wouldn’t surprise me. You appear to know a lot about these rigs. Any chance you could answer any of my questions about the new gas models? Much appreciated:
I think my questions rel to your 2020 Earthcruiser post above keep getting lost in the shuffle:
Is fuel tank capacity likely to stay at 60 gallons or will/could there be a need for an auxiliary tank to increase range?
What are the front/rear GAWR's and what sort of actual front and rear axle weights have you seen on a "loaded" (fuel, water, passengers) ?
Any idea what your avg mpg was at 78mph?

I'm intrigued by the "Omega" Model on your website (and question the logic of discontinuing the diesel motor option) but looking forward to learning more about this gas model, esp. with crew cab. I have never been in a loaded petrol-powered truck that performed particularly well at high-altitude/mountains vs turbodiesels or got good mileage in any sense, particularly when climbing passes, but am hopeful the new EC motor is different and from your account it sounds like this rig has potential. Thank you.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I think you mentioned in an earlier post you didn't want to use an addt'l heater...I note this because as you finalize your design plan, realize it is a very simple thing to plug an Espar into the "loop" and I'm pretty sure no warranty impact. It'll run you about a grand or so and a straightforward DIY. This would be one alternative that would allow you to either just heat your water with diesel (Espar) to save electricity, electric (when you're on shore power) and if/when hooked to your engine, get hot water anytime you're driving/idling. IME, small 6.5gallon Isotherm square and basic models take about an hour of engine or Espar running (low - high = 1 - 4 amps draw and burn .08 - .16 gallons per hr...that's ~1-3 cups of diesel per hr) to get hot from start temp of ~40F and once they're hot, if mounted inside the insulated camper, they'll stay pretty hot with no additional heat for 6-8hrs at least. The Espar will also preheat your engine in winter. You'll basically be building a circuit for the hot coolant to run through the electric water heater, the Espar and the motor. You choose how you want the hot water given the circumstances. You'll need good hose, clamps, 3-4 full flow lever-controlled ball valves (the first three allow you to isolate the flow from the vehicle engine, the 4th allows you to pinch the flow), pipe to hose connectors and a pair of Tee fittings. There are a few configurations, depending on what you want to do: To envision a basic config, think of (or better yet draw) a flattened oval (this is your hot coolant circuit). Let's assume the coolant is flowing in a clockwise direction with the water heater and [optionally] espar located in the circuit around the 9 o'clock and the vehicle motor at the 3 o'clock. Remember, every one of these devices has a coolant inflow and outflow hose connection, and they're just plugged into the circuit, providing heat (engine, espar, electric htr elements) or absorbing/holding (hot water tank) heat via the circuit. Install a ball valve at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions, connect each to a Tee connector just to the right, and then connect the two Tee's with another ball valve (oriented "vertically"), essentially allowing you to cut your oval coolant circuit in half when toggled on/off to isolate the flow....the 4th ball valve would be located in the ~2 o'clock position (just before coolant from the heater(s) enters the vehicle engine) so that in hot weather/high temp conditions, the flow of coolant flowing to the espar/water htr is slowed to a trickle because the coolant circuit has been slowed..so you don't unnecessarily overheat your water heater, most htrs have a pressure release valve that kicks off at a preset temp/bar around 200-210F IME. Alternately, when you close your 6 and 12 o'clock ball valves and open the "vertical" ball valve, your engine coolant will flow on it's own shortened circuit just not to the espar/water heater. None of these will do anything negative to impact your engine's ability to cool itself: all the coolant in your "circuit" is extra and any use of it will actually help cool your coolant (my diesel coolant temp runs about 5F cooler with the circuit open and everything is warmed up) because it is dropping heat throughout the system, even if your hot water tank is already hot, the whole circuit is going to be radiating some heat. The configuration I've just described is the total package but the same principles could easily be applied to just employ the espar and your electric water heater with no connection to the engine, or just the engine and the electric water heater and no espar. For hose, check out Gates Durion (you can order this at O'reilly auto, pricey but good to 400F, use their clamps too, they don't cut into the silicone) and Groco and Apollo SS and/or bronze inline ball valves, pipe-to-hose connectors and Tees are easy to work with and marine grade so they'll last a while underneath/outside your rig.

More awesome info! Thank you! I will do a lot more reading