2021 Overland Explorer Vehicles (OEV) CAMP-HBE pop-up flatbed pickup camper (renamed the "Hudson Bay" for 2023 model year)

[Chadx]

I'm very excited that OEV plans to move the battery tray to the passenger side, under-dinette compartment accessible from outside. Just makes so much more sense there and will make maintenance and expansion much easier. I plan to use two 206Ah Lithium; I can only fit a single 100Ah Lithium in my CAMP-X (though I think one may be able to fit two 100Ah in the new CAMP-X slide-out tray). And I agree the best part of the potential CAMP-HBE shower/battery redesign will be that is the shower pan can be slammed as low as possible to allow more headroom and then a storage compartment, with dinette foot support, above the shower pan when not in use.

Prices keep moving so fast it's hard to keep up, but last time I compared the price of an OEV CAMP-HBE with a comparably equipped FWC flatbed Hawk, the price difference was only around $5,000. Key phrase there being "comparably equipped". The base price of the FWC flatbed is quite low, but by the time you add in all the optional equipment that is standard on the CAMP-HBE, it really brings the two fairly close pricewise. The extra $5,000 for the CAMP-HBE is easily worth it, my opinion, due to the insulated panel construction rather than aluminum frame construction (and associated condensation issue we had with our FWC). Also, the CAMP-HBE uses top shelf appliances (REDARC battery manager, Truma AquaGo and VarioHeat) which are also more expensive than what come with the FWC at the time of my last comparison. Again, hard to keep track as manufacturers change prices and spec different components, but that was the spread when I last made the item-by-item build sheet comparison. Happy there are more and more builders with different strategies (build materials, layouts, price points, etc.) because it gives the consumer more options/choices.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

I'm very excited that OEV plans to move the battery tray to the passenger side, under-dinette compartment accessible from outside. Just makes so much more sense there and will make maintenance and expansion much easier. I plan to use two 206Ah Lithium; I can only fit a single 100Ah Lithium in my CAMP-X (though I think one may be able to fit two 100Ah in the new CAMP-X slide-out tray). And I agree the best part of the potential CAMP-HBE shower/battery redesign will be that is the shower pan can be slammed as low as possible to allow more headroom and then a storage compartment, with dinette foot support, above the shower pan when not in use.

Prices keep moving so fast it's hard to keep up, but last time I compared the price of an OEV CAMP-HBE with a comparably equipped FWC flatbed Hawk, the price difference was only around $5,000. Key phrase there being "comparably equipped". The base price of the FWC flatbed is quite low, but by the time you add in all the optional equipment that is standard on the CAMP-HBE, it really brings the two fairly close pricewise. The extra $5,000 for the CAMP-HBE is easily worth it, my opinion, due to the insulated panel construction rather than aluminum frame construction (and associated condensation issue we had with our FWC). Also, the CAMP-HBE uses top shelf appliances (REDARC battery manager, Truma AquaGo and VarioHeat) which are also more expensive than what come with the FWC at the time of my last comparison. Again, hard to keep track as manufacturers change prices and spec different components, but that was the spread when I last made the item-by-item build sheet comparison. Happy there are more and more builders with different strategies (build materials, layouts, price points, etc.) because it gives the consumer more options/choices.

Agreed better solution for the battery. Which brand for the 206ah?

You definitely should trade in and get the HBE so you can work on suggested refinements.

I know it's a moving target for product supply, improvements to Gen 4 on the panels etc., but the base price for the 2022 HBE has now increased by $9k.

 

[Chadx]

Agreed better solution for the battery. Which brand for the 206ah?
You defiantly should trade in and get the HBE so you can work on suggested refinements.
I know it's a moving target for product supply, improvements to Gen 4 on the panels etc., but the base price for the 2022 HBE has now increased by $9k.

Though I've not confirmed, I assume FWC and all manufacturers have had similar percentage increases in the last year. It's crazy. I know boats, motorcycles/ATV/UTV, and pickups sure have. I tend to always find and buy gently used, 2 - 5 year old things to maximize value. CAMP-X is one of the few things, in the last 5 years, that I've bought new and that is out of necessity (they didn't exist before that! Ha.)

I have really enjoyed being an early adopter on the CAMP-X and seeing the constant improvements implemented in later version, though that also comes with the potential to not have some of those slick upates if they are not retro-fittable into ours. For the CAMP-HBE, if we go that route it will be after the initial layout updates are sorted and refinements slow a bit.

I have a BattleBorn brand lithium in my CAMP-X out of necessity as it was the only one I could guide into, and fit in, my battery box, but for the CAMP-HBE, I'll go with SOK brand lithium batteries. I had a pair in my fishing boat for the electric bow mount motor and they are beasts. I sold them with the boat, but am replacing the boat with a different one in the spring and will two more SOK. One has to plan ahead, though, as SOK sell out immediately and take weeks to months to arrive as they are having the same importing/shipping issues as everything else. SOK have been torn apart by many online reviewers and the build quality is sound. I plan to put the 400amps and 400 watts of solar because I'll have an inverter and doing some heavy charging (electric motorcycles, boat batteries, ebikes, etc).

 

[Ninelitetrip]

Though I've not confirmed, I assume FWC and all manufacturers have had similar percentage increases in the last year. It's crazy. I know boats, motorcycles/ATV/UTV, and pickups sure have. I tend to always find and buy gently used, 2 - 5 year old things to maximize value. CAMP-X is one of the few things, in the last 5 years, that I've bought new and that is out of necessity (they didn't exist before that! Ha.)

I have really enjoyed being an early adopter on the CAMP-X and seeing the constant improvements implemented in later version, though that also comes with the potential to not have some of those slick upates if they are not retro-fittable into ours. For the CAMP-HBE, if we go that route it will be after the initial layout updates are sorted and refinements slow a bit.

I have a BattleBorn brand lithium in my CAMP-X out of necessity as it was the only one I could guide into, and fit in, my battery box, but for the CAMP-HBE, I'll go with SOK brand lithium batteries. I had a pair in my fishing boat for the electric bow mount motor and they are beasts. I sold them with the boat, but am replacing the boat with a different one in the spring and will two more SOK. One has to plan ahead, though, as SOK sell out immediately and take weeks to months to arrive as they are having the same importing/shipping issues as everything else. SOK have been torn apart by many online reviewers and the build quality is sound. I plan to put the 400amps and 400 watts of solar because I'll have an inverter and doing some heavy charging (electric motorcycles, boat batteries, ebikes, etc).

Trying to move a product that depends on multiple suppliers and crossing a border with a currency exchange, yeah that's fun. At least the exchange rate favors the CAD recently. Trying to find a "reasonably priced" used truck these days is a waiting game.

I watch Will Prowse on YT, funny SOK posted his review on their website. Must have really driven demand for them. I don't think you can wrong with the SOK if you can find them. I like the Lithionics 320ah GTX series, all the bells and whistles and UL listed. Going to pay for that privledge.

12V 320AH E2107 GTX UL Battery Model | Lithionics Battery

lithionicsbattery.com

Another company that I am watching.

Gen 4 Group 31 - 180Ah Advanced Lithium 12V Deep Cycle Battery | ohmmu.com

Battery Terminals: Threaded Insert (M8)Dimensions: 12.75" x 6.875" x 9" (L x W x H)BCI Group Number: 31Weight: 33 lbs Upgrade your battery to the Highest Capacity Group 31 Battery available. Ohmmu's newest Gen 4 battery stores 15% more energy than our previous Gen 3, for a total of 2.3kWh of...

www.ohmmu.com

 

[Chadx]

I enjoy Will Prowse's videos. Enough technical data to hold my attention and calls something garbage if it is. Ha. Though I don't have solar on anything more than camper and a "solar generator", I love the tech and have enjoyed reading and learning about it for decades.

ohmmu has been getting fairly good press, but I've no experience with them. If they prove good, I think they will expand fairly rapidly.

One aspect of the Lithionics that has always intrigued me is the external Battery Management System (BMS). I really like that concept. Theoretically, it would allow for easy expansion (such as adding additional battery packs to a single BMS) and one would pay once for the BMS and once for one or more battery packs and the ability to replace one as tech advances or when there is an issue with one. In practice, tech is advancing so fast that one is more likely to replace both the battery and BMS by the time you have an issue with either or they "age out", but something about me still just loves that concept of keeping those separate. I guess more details than that are for another battery-specific thread.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

Have you seen any dimensions on the pax side box? I wonder how much room would left after installing two SOK batteries? Wonder if the inverter would stay in it's current location?

 

[Chadx]

I didn't put a tape to that compartment when I did the images. Ballpark is around 20" deep and 20" wide on the floor (but then there is the rear kickout that angles up and away. That footprint is a very rough estimate from memory. Will be interesting to see where they default the inverter and battery tray, though I expect to remove the tray because the SOK batteries are wider than typical batteries. I'd place them in the far back of the compartment (when looking in from the side hatch) and then protect the terminals with something, or maybe even a barrier of some sort, so the remaining area is free to use for whatever storage. If OEV is going to do it right, the REDARC needs to be in the same compartment because it should be right next to the battery; same as an inverter. That would burn up some more space, but is the right thing to do. And it would declutter the compartment under the driver's side dinnette that already contains the water tank, water pump, Truma AquaGo and Truma Varioheat and ducting.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

I didn't put a tape to that compartment when I did the images. Ballpark is around 20" deep and 20" wide on the floor (but then there is the rear kickout that angles up and away. That footprint is a very rough estimate from memory. Will be interesting to see where they default the inverter and battery tray, though I expect to remove the tray because the SOK batteries are wider than typical batteries. I'd place them in the far back of the compartment (when looking in from the side hatch) and then protect the terminals with something, or maybe even a barrier of some sort, so the remaining area is free to use for whatever storage. If OEV is going to do it right, the REDARC needs to be in the same compartment because it should be right next to the battery; same as an inverter. That would burn up some more space, but is the right thing to do. And it would declutter the compartment under the driver's side dinnette that already contains the water tank, water pump, Truma AquaGo and Truma Varioheat and ducting.

One advantage is certainly the flexibility to place the batteries in different locations and to some degree orientation for that perfect fit. 2 batteries, Xantrex, and the REDARC. That will fill that space up. Something so "simple" as moving a battery. Now do you also move 110V house feed, solar feed?

 

[Chadx]

One advantage is certainly the flexibility to place the batteries in different locations and to some degree orientation for that perfect fit. 2 batteries, Xantrex, and the REDARC. That will fill that space up. Something so "simple" as moving a battery. Now do you also move 110V house feed, solar feed?

It is a domino effect. Ha. With the current REDARC location under the driver's side dinette seat, I believe the DC feeds in from the pickup's drivers side and runs under the galley to that compartment. If the REDARC was moved to the passenger side dinette seat, the current wire run location would likely remain the easiest path due to the camper entry door on the passenger side. Extending the DC run from current termination point to the opposite side would add around 5 feet of total length to the wire run. With the wire gauge that REDARC requires and with the REDARC having a 30amp max charge rate, that shouldn't have much if any impact on DC charging.

For the solar input and shorepower input, the bit higher voltage (solar) or a lot higher voltage (shore power) aren't as effected by long cable runs as the pickup DC. But still, the shorter the run, the less the loss and less the materials (both shorter length of wire and potentially smaller gauge) and less clutter and bulk to the wire bundles. But there are other things OEV will surely consider before making wire run changes, such as the impact of changing the route from the solar running through the soft top and where they run the other wiring up to the roof for lights, fans, exterior running lights, etc. Probably more economical to care for only one wire bundle in the soft top that two or three. Another consideration is on which side buyers prefer the exterior plugs. I prefer the shorepower and portable solar plug on the drivers side, but maybe the majority prefer the passenger or it's 50/50. Much to consider.

All that being said, I'll note that I have zero insight into if OEV is moving the REDARC and batteries, only the batteries, or nothing. But it's been mentioned that they are thinking through the options/design/impacts.

 

[BoJackNorseman]

Saw these at Expo East...awesome!

 

[DzlToy]

Yep, at 1,550 dry, the CAMP-HBE is really geared towards a Heavy Duty pickup. Fullsize pickups are just not going to be a great fit even with airbags or re-sprung. And braking and handling are just as important as supporting that weight.

Figure 38 gallons of freshwater is 315lbs, 20lbs of propane itself (the weight of the tank itself is included in dry weight, but not the propane), at least 50 - 100 lbs for batteries, plus at least an extra 100 lbs for tray over bed (and up to 200lbs more). So one is realistically looking at 2,035lbs - 2,185 lb for the increase in tray weight, camper, water, propane, battery and we haven't even started to load it yet. Now add in any camper accessories (like cassette toilet, king pull out, light bars, roof rack, spare tire carrier, ladder, molle rack, etc.), Reico jacks (100lbs) if you ever run with those, any tools/recovery gear, all your groceries, pots/pans, clothing, chairs, other camping equipment, weight of driver and yes the driver and any passengers and you quickly add another 1,000 lbs (at least). Definitely in HD territory as no fullsize truck, even with extensive spring work, would be appropriate for 3,000+ lb payload. Yes, Ford makes one specific fullsize that is rated to 3,000 payload (some unicorn type truck that I think is a longbed, single cab, two wheel drive and an unlikely layout for someone looking at a flatbed camper). Now add tongue weight (bicycle/motorcycle rack, boat/trailer tongue weight, etc.) or anything you put on the roof (ski box, kayaks, etc.) on top of that 3,000lbs.

For comparison, the lighter CAMP-X is about 1,200 dry with smaller 10 gallon water tank and I consider a fullsize pickup borderline but workable with suspension updates. In my opinion (and mathematically), the CAMP-HBE requires an HD pickup.

Chad, I am not sure where these numbers came from, but a good friend of mine just ordered a 2022 F-350. He plans to install a slide-in camper, so I did some research for both of you. According to Ford's website, payload capacity for an F-350 varies from about #4,000 to more than #7,000. As the towing capacity on several models exceeds 30,000 pounds, I would not expect that any of the current, or recent models would struggle with a #3,000 camper in the bed. Modern 3/4 ton and 1-ton pickups have very robust chassis and drive line components, though airbags and/or custom springs will certainly improve ride and handling. After market, E-load range A/T tires provide nearly #8,000 of load carrying capacity. As always, do you own research to find the truck that is right for carrying your CAMP-X.

 

[Chadx]

Chad, I am not sure where these numbers came from, but a good friend of mine just ordered a 2022 F-350. He plans to install a slide-in camper, so I did some research for both of you. According to Ford's website, payload capacity for an F-350 varies from about #4,000 to more than #7,000. As the towing capacity on several models exceeds 30,000 pounds, I would not expect that any of the current, or recent models would struggle with a #3,000 camper in the bed. Modern 3/4 ton and 1-ton pickups have very robust chassis and drive line components, though airbags and/or custom springs will certainly improve ride and handling. After market, E-load range A/T tires provide nearly #8,000 of load carrying capacity. As always, do you own research to find the truck that is right for carrying your CAMP-X.

Hi DzlToy, Good info and it looks like we are saying the same thing; An HD pickup is appropriate for these payloads of around 2,500 - 3,000lb while a Fullsize pickup is not. I suspect my use of the term "Fullsize" was misinterpreted. "Fullsize" is the modern designator for what we used to call "1/2 ton" pickups such as the F150 and 1500 series pickups. Since modern pickups max payload has far surpassed "1/2 ton", that nomenclature is being phased out and replaced with Fullsize. I can't recall the last time I saw a Fullsize with only a 1/2 ton (1,000 lb) of capacity, but it's been many, many model years ago! Ha. Even the extremely softly sprung offroad models are 1,200 - 1,400 lb max payload (Raptors, TRX, etc.) Commonly, the "HD pickup" class encompasses both the former "3/4 ton" and "1 ton" series and, as you pointed out, the payloads of the F250/2500 series and F350/3500 series pickups far exceed the old "3/4 ton" (1,500 lb) and "1 ton" (2,000lb) designators.
So the common terminology, for the various pickup series, has evolved over the last 5 years or so into the classes of:
Compact/Mini - Ford Maverick
Midsize - Colorado/Canyon, Ranger, Tacoma, etc.
Fullsize - Silverado/Sierra 1500, RAM 1500, Ford F150, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan
HD - Silverado/Sierra 2500 and 3500, RAM 2500 and 3500, Ford F250 and F350

That being clarified, if you re-read my post we are both in agreement that Fullsize pickups are not adequate for a CAMP-HBE setup since a typical fullsize pickup is only rated at 1,700 - 2,200 lb max payload. And we are in agreement that HD pickups are the appropriate pickup for the task of carrying a CAMP-HBE and even much larger slide-in campers since typical 2500 series are rated at 2,600 - 3,800lbs and typical 3500 series are rated 3,600 - 4,700 lb. There are, of course, outliers in each category as some "offroad" packages on 2500 series bring down their max payload to 1,500lbs which is Fullsize max payload territory rather than HD. And there are some very specific Fullsize packages in the Ford F150 that bring max payload up to around 3,000lb, but in a non-typical single cab, 8 foot bed, 2 wheel drive configuration with a very specific payload package. Of note is that overlanders typically only consider single rear wheels rather than dual rear wheels. To get may payload up above 4,500lb in a 350/3500 series, you have to go to a dually and then, like you mentioned, you can get up to around 7,850lb max payload in a very specific F350 pickup (dually, 4x2, single cab, 8 ft bed, etc.).

That being said, it really depends on ones perspective, because if you take all truck capacities into account, even the huge capacities of what the manufactures deemed "Heavy Duty" pickups are not all that heavy duty if you use the Federal Highway Administration classifications which are based on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). That table has nine different classes. Classes 1-3 cover light duty models (up to the 3500 series trucks and GVWR 0 - 14,000 lb), classes 4-6 cover medium duty trucks (from 4500 to 6500 series trucks from GVWR 14,001 - 26,000 lb) and classes 7-9 cover heavy duty ("true" heavy duty trucks some would say. Ha) which are 7500 series and above and cover GVWR from 26,001+.

 

[DzlToy]

Mea culpa. I was reading full-size as 2500/3500 and HD as 4500/5500. I will pull the post if you want it deleted. Half ton trucks are for going camping with a tent, a dog and a mountain bike, not for 3,000 pound campers in the bed.

Cheers

 

[Chadx]

No worries. Absolutely no reason to delete. Good info and glad you brought it up so there is no confusion for future readers.

 

[mk216v]

Thx for clarifying you too, I was also confused by "full size." Not to divert too much, but it's still bizarre to me that Toyota doesn't make a HD Tundra. Seems it'd be in their interest to compete with the big3. But, Toyota lovers will just need to not upgrade their trucks with bumpers/winch/etc etc in order to stay within GVWR.

PS--Happy Halloween. I heard that "full size" is in this year, check your pillowcases.