2022 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 Motorhome (Ebay) (OR)

[rruff]

I messaged the Toyota Bend Oregon guy on his last vehicle and he said he added air bags to help.

??? look at how much torsion resistance the rear mount (doesn’t) have.

Per the description: " The truck frame is fully boxed in now from front to back , It also has gussets welded in as well . The front suspension has adjustable coil overs . The rear suspension has , old man emu heavy duty leaf springs , road active suspension helpers , Firestone air bags and upgraded shocks . "

Boxing the frame isn't easy if it's done right. I'd guess he had some issues with earlier models. And that rear suspension is pretty wild! Yes, it's going to be way over GVWR and you won't have much of a warranty (if any), but Truckhouse is like that too.

 

[reync]

Per the description: " The truck frame is fully boxed in now from front to back , It also has gussets welded in as well . The front suspension has adjustable coil overs . The rear suspension has , old man emu heavy duty leaf springs , road active suspension helpers , Firestone air bags and upgraded shocks . "

Boxing the frame isn't easy if it's done right. I'd guess he had some issues with earlier models. And that rear suspension is pretty wild! Yes, it's going to be way over GVWR and you won't have much of a warranty (if any), but Truckhouse is like that too.

You clearly didn’t look at the picture. The issue isn’t the chassis frame rails. The issue is the flimsy subframe built to hold the truck bed camper. The subframe is only connected to the truck chassis frame with a ~2’ connection tab in the middle of the vehicle to support the entire mid and rear of the camper. This means over 50% of the camper is essentially on a cantilever around this central pivot.

 

[rruff]

Oh, I see what you were getting at... or maybe I don't... what is the 2' connection tab? If you mean the distance between the front and rear mounting points, that's about 3' I think... still not very much. He could have made a piece in the back that bridged the chassis rails and got better support. It looks like it's fixed to the front two bed mounts, and he made a pivot on the tire carrier (!?) to make it act like a 3-point. That single rear point will be carrying most of the camper weight. The 3-point concept makes sense on a stock frame, but if he fully boxed the frame, then he doesn't need any pivots.

I wouldn't call that a subframe, rather it's just a light frame for hardpoints and the side skirts. He must be relying on the camper itself to be strong/stiff enough. If that's the case I wonder what sort of framing he has inside the bottom panel where it mounts. It will depend on details we don't know, but it doesn't look promising.

 

[carleton]

Ugg, thanks to me looking at this I'm now getting FB/Instagram advertisments for this thing......

 

[tacollie]

Ugg, thanks to me looking at this I'm now getting FB/Instagram advertisments for this thing......

Same here.

 

[rruff]

I like this camper, can't help but think it would be a sweet retirement rig.
What mileage would the 3.5 liter V6 give with that weight?

The 3.5L with 6spd auto gets low 18s avg on Fuelly. This is compared to a full size pickup typically in the low 16s with a more powerful engine. I'd budget for a regear; I think they are 4.3 from the factory, and 5.29 would be as high as you can go. With that you may retain a 1-2 mpg advantage, but I doubt you'd average 14 mpg even with a light foot on the road. I believe your priorities are a little off though, as gas will be a small fraction of your total expense to own and operate something like this.

It will be way over GVWR dry, and even more loaded up. Bet you'd be at least 2,000 lbs over in that case if you are loaded for long term. As was mentioned earlier, the mounting between the chassis and camper looks insubstantial/risky. Also if they did a poor job boxing the truck chassis that could cause more problems than it solves. So, I'd grill the seller for details and photos regarding those items, and I'd budget for a substantial custom subframe and chassis reinforcement. I think custom full-floater axles are available for these. I'd also get a custom leaf pack, and better shocks.

Heck, the smartest thing to do might be to remove the camper and put it on a 1 ton, and sell the Tacoma...

I see it didn't sell, and he did say OBO, so... ?

 

[Horseshoe1]

The 3.5L with 6spd auto gets low 18s avg on Fuelly. This is compared to a full size pickup typically in the low 16s with a more powerful engine. I'd budget for a regear; I think they are 4.3 from the factory, and 5.29 would be as high as you can go. With that you may retain a 1-2 mpg advantage, but I doubt you'd average 14 mpg even with a light foot on the road. I believe your priorities are a little off though, as gas will be a small fraction of your total expense to own and operate something like this.

It will be way over GVWR dry, and even more loaded up. Bet you'd be at least 2,000 lbs over in that case if you are loaded for long term. As was mentioned earlier, the mounting between the chassis and camper looks insubstantial/risky. Also if they did a poor job boxing the truck chassis that could cause more problems than it solves. So, I'd grill the seller for details and photos regarding those items, and I'd budget for a substantial custom subframe and chassis reinforcement. I think custom full-floater axles are available for these. I'd also get a custom leaf pack, and better shocks.

Heck, the smartest thing to do might be to remove the camper and put it on a 1 ton, and sell the Tacoma...

I see it didn't sell, and he did say OBO, so... ?

Good selling a with a rebuilt title and without the back bed.

 

[rruff]

Good selling a with a rebuilt title and without the back bed.

Why rebuilt?

Beds are easy to find... or put on a flatbed.

 

[DRAX]

From their FAQ page:

“How do I buy a TruckHouse BCT?

Click here to begin the ordering process online. To reserve the next available conversion spot, a $50,000 non-refundable order payment and an executed purchasing agreement is required. Please reach out directly with any questions you may have. “

???

At first I thought "wow, expecting full payment up-front is a bit nuts."

No, that's just a non-refunable deposit.

How much does a BCT cost?

The BCT starts at $350,000. The base price includes the estimated cost of the Toyota Tacoma. Additional options and packages are available.

Um, what? On what planet? Who in their right mind would spend that kind of money on a Taco-based camper? Holy cow someone is out to lunch...

If I had a Tacoma and $350k sitting around I'd get a Scout or Kimbo and still have $300k left over...of course, all of these will send the Taco way over GVWR and if this TruckHouse fellow isn't a certified coachbuilder he cannot make any claims about increasing payload/GVWR beyond the weights certified by Toyota.

Craziness.

 

[jlcanterbury]

Cool concept. I have always loved the older Sunraider type campers - or really any 'full size' camper on a smaller 4x4 pickup, and there has been a real lull in the 'professional builder' market integrating smaller pickups in dedicated RV build.
Glad he's building something different.
Not everything needs to be approved by every lawyer and risk management engineer before existing in the real world.
I'd like to see this with a slightly smaller camper - to help get it back inside reasonable size and weight for a Tacoma. I hope this guy gets a chance to refine the design and eliminate potential issues, which is generally coincident with growth and experience.

 

[DRAX]

Not everything needs to be approved by every lawyer and risk management engineer before existing in the real world.

No, but when you're modifying a vehicle in such a way that its structural integrity, crash worthiness, etc are potentially compromised there is a reason why such changes have to be certified by a manufacturer or coach builder and why there are vehicle safety codes, safety tests, requirements, etc.

If someone wants to build something for themselves and put themselves at risk that's entirely different than someone building and selling something to the public and yes, those DO need to be tested, validated, and certified. The liability created by not doing any of that is huge. Motor vehicles are subject to much more strict and comprehensive requirements than trailers.

 

[rruff]

...its structural integrity, crash worthiness, etc are potentially compromised....

True of every mod we make. When the customer buys the vehicle, they buy a Tacoma +mods.

The liability created by not doing any of that is huge.

Who is liable when you install a lift, steel bumper, redo the suspension, put on big tires, and stick a 2,000 lb camper on the back of a Tacoma? Drivers are legally required to control their vehicles and not cause accidents. Period. No excuses. If it falls apart and causes an accident while you are driving, maybe you can sue the builder after the fact, but you are getting sued first. I wouldn't count on collecting anything from a small builder who sells one-offs on ebay, but maybe Truckhouse carries insurance of some kind.

Maybe you don't agree with it, but that's how it is.

 

[DRAX]

True of every mod we make. When the customer buys the vehicle, they buy a Tacoma +mods.


Who is liable when you install a lift, steel bumper, redo the suspension, put on big tires, and stick a 2,000 lb camper on the back of a Tacoma? Drivers are legally required to control their vehicles and not cause accidents. Period. No excuses. If it falls apart and causes an accident while you are driving, maybe you can sue the builder after the fact, but you are getting sued first. I wouldn't count on collecting anything from a small builder who sells one-offs on ebay, but maybe Truckhouse carries insurance of some kind.

Maybe you don't agree with it, but that's how it is.

The difference is WHO does the work and WHAT they are providing/claiming. If the owner does their own work then they assume all risk. If a shop does the work then they assume the risk associated with the work unless a waiver is signed. If someone is selling vehicles that they have modified then the seller is assuming the risk. Why? Because the expectation is that the person knows what they are doing and the modifications have undergone testing to ensure road worthiness, either by the company that supplies the modified parts or, for custom work, by the person that should be qualified to perform the work. Certifications matter. Qualifications matter.

Putting the onus on the buyer/driver of a vehicle that they DID NOT modify themselves is nonsensical, especially when they are BUYING a vehicle specifically for the modifications that have been performed.

If the builder/seller is not willing to guarantee the vehicle would pass all safety requirements and certifications then that should be a huge red flag.

You may not like it or agree with it, but what matters in the eyes of the law are a) what a reasonable person would expect and be expected to know and b) what federal safety regulations have been violated, if any.

To suggest the buyer of a vehicle that was marketed, modified, and sold for use on public roads is the one liable for ensuring the vehicle was properly built/modified is insane. Are you responsible if Toyota happened to build your truck in a way that made it unsafe? Should you have to know the laws and regulations for vehicle safety before buying any vehicle? Of course not. That's not reasonable. If you were to buy one of those modified Tacos and ended up getting into an accident due to no fault of your own but rather due to the failure of a mechanical, structural, or safety defect caused by what the "manufacturer" did then the liability falls on the manufacturer. Full stop.

As I said, you modify your own vehicle then you assume the responsibility for any problems those modifications cause. You buy a modified vehicle from a dealer/manufacturer then the assumption of risk falls squarely on the dealer/manufacturer that did the work. It is not up to the buyer to ensure the vehicle is safe when they are buying from a company that is selling vehicles that they have modified.

If you pay your neighbor, who claims to be a mechanic, to replace the brakes on your vehicle and they do the job incorrectly which causes you to get into an accident is it YOUR fault because YOU didn't know HOW to inspect their work? Of course not. That's why you paid a "professional" to do the work. The idea that the person that did the work isn't liable for faulty workmanship is absurd.

 

[rruff]

To suggest the buyer of a vehicle that was marketed, modified, and sold for use on public roads is the one liable for ensuring the vehicle was properly built/modified is insane. Are you responsible if Toyota happened to build your truck in a way that made it unsafe? Should you have to know the laws and regulations for vehicle safety before buying any vehicle? Of course not. That's not reasonable. If you were to buy one of those modified Tacos and ended up getting into an accident due to no fault of your own but rather due to the failure of a mechanical, structural, or safety defect caused by what the "manufacturer" did then the liability falls on the manufacturer. Full stop.

Like I said, you are liable for what your vehicle does that impacts someone else. *If* you can pin the fault for your vehicle's failure on a manufacturer or mechanic, then go ahead... but you will need to prove that, and they need to have assets that you can obtain.

Toyota is liable for the stock vehicle, and for the loads that they list. They will not cover modified parts of course, or how any modifications may impact their stock vehicle.

On this rig? It hasn't undergone testing. I suspect this is true of most aftermarket parts. And, you'd have a tough time making a case that Toyota is liable for anything structural whatsoever. It's obviously way over GVWR. As the buyer you should know all this and so you assume the risk... it is just as though you bought the truck and modified it yourself. Yes, you could sue the seller but if he's smart, you won't be successful. What you see is what you get. Buyer beware. I'm perfectly OK with this myself. If you aren't then you should only buy from large manufacturers who carry explicit warranties, and make sure you read and understand the fine print.

If you look at Truckhouse's policy, the new truck is bought by the customer, and then they modify it. The aftermarket parts are not made for a Tacoma carrying this sort of weight, so I doubt they'd be liable if something broke, and Toyota certainly wouldn't be. Maybe there is a warranty from Truckhouse, but I don't see any mentioned.

 

[jlcanterbury]

@DRAX I think your expectations and understandings of manufacturer liability are a little over-extended. There is the 'benefit' of possible support from a manufacturer who sells 'certified' builds. However, in most cases, the end uses carries the liability both for their decisions as a consumer (who they decide to purchase from), and how the item is used.

Have you seen what happens to a regular 'motor home' in a crash? Motor homes from any one of these certified mass producers? They literally shred themselves to pieces in any impact whatsoever. The coach builder is not liable when the struture of their 'coach' turns to dust on impact.

Anyone considering buying from a smaller builder or hobby builder should understand that it's not the same as buying from Earthroamer.

I do not believe this thread should be hi-jacked with this discussion, so I will close with my asserion that this is a nice build representing a certain niche in the market that I am happy to see some action in!