2024 Land Cruiser in the USA?

GetOutThere

Adventurer
On that note, every truck has design decisions that seem to defy reason. This is better than a 50 gallon tank and 10mpg.

I think we can also take 10% off of epa estimates. Suv's never get the estimate, except with the trip computers that are always 20% optimistic.

On the plus side, the rumoured payload here would easily allow for an aux tank, if packaging allows.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
On the plus side, the rumoured payload here would easily allow for an aux tank, if packaging allows.

Hopefully a simple swap with the GX tank is feasible.

The aux tank is such a pain: displaces spare tire, which then consumes cargo space or necessitates a heavy bumper that further erodes payload, etc.

A 21 gallon tank from the factory would have been so much more elegant.

Toyota had to screw the pooch somewhere on the US spec Land Cruiser; they chose this.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Hopefully a simple swap with the GX tank is feasible.

The aux tank is such a pain: displaces spare tire, which then consumes cargo space or necessitates a heavy bumper that further erodes payload, etc.

A 21 gallon tank from the factory would have been so much more elegant.

Toyota had to screw the pooch somewhere on the US spec Land Cruiser; they chose this.

How different is this LC going to be from what is offered Globally? Is there a summary somewhere? Honestly given the last gen LC's were 6-figures plus, I didn't expect Toyota to deliver an MSRP in this range, and so they've got my attention.

100% agree with you on the aux tank - my old family Grand Wagoneer had an aftermarket one installed that is on a switch. Having a bigger tank as a factory option is preferable. But, given how rarely a person typically needs that extra range, the payload allows for fuel bladders and jerry cans which can really help, but it's a compromise for sure.

Edit: The dusty brain cells at the back remembered a conversation I had with...maybe you, T-Willy! Might have been NickW, might have been someone else here, but the gist of it was explaining hte differences in LCs -Prado vs FF - so I think I'll just repeat the answer here: basically this will be the Land Cruiser Prado everywhere else in the world, but it'll just be the Land Cruiser in North America. These specs are surprising to me as the LC Prado, I've heard, is always a bit of a Land Cruiser Jr. of sorts, but from what I see this isn't that much "Junior" to the LC300 if the data from here is correct .

Info on sizes:

Vehicle2022 Land Cruiser2024 Land Cruiser
Length197 inches193.7 inches
Width78.3 inches84.2 inches
Height76.6 inches73.2 inches
Wheelbase112.2 inches112.2 inches
Ground Clearance9.2 inches8.7 inches
Approach/Breakover/Departure Angles32/25/2631/25/22 degrees
Wheels18-inch18-inch

Info on Engine/Capability:

VehicleLand Cruiser 300Land Cruiser 250
EngineTwin-turbo V-6Turbo I-4 hybrid
Displacement3.4 liter2.4 liter
Power415 horsepower326 horsepower
Torque480 pound-feet465 pound-feet
TransmissionTen-speed automaticEight-speed automatic
DrivetrainFour-wheel driveFour-wheel drive
Towing7,700 pounds6,000 pounds


This thing seems to be pretty neck-and-neck with the 300 series but it doesn't have all the luxury bloat and has about 90 horses less power. Besides that, we're into largely irrelevant stats - a couple of inches here, a few foot pounds of torque. Towing is a gap, but I would put them in the same class of that 5k to 8k tow capacity that is common amongst vehicles in this rough size/market.

So I guess the only other question I have, if anyone has a comparison, is how different will the NA LC250 be from the RTW LC250 known as the Prado?
 
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K9LTW

Member
Spec'd a mid-grade Land Cruiser with just rock rails added vs a GX550 Overtrail with both the full-length rack (LC only offers a 1/2 rack) and rock rails. The difference? $6,036. That difference becomes closer to $4,500 once you factor in aftermarket racks for the LC. IMO that's a bit too close in price. While the Lexus will hit you in the wallet at the pumps (worse mpgs requiring premium fuel...assuming the LC will be tuned for regular), it does get you 2k more towing, likely better fit/finish, and 1+" more ground clearance (LC is listed at only 8") on similar-sized tires (33 vs 32.6). Point to the LC, though, for a rear locker! I can't find any payload figures, but they're probably similar. No doubt insurance, maintenance, and repairs will cost more for the Lexus...but that price delta needs to be bigger (and no, not by increasing the price on the Lexus).
 
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T-Willy

Well-known member
So I guess the only other question I have, if anyone has a comparison, is how different will the NA LC250 be from the RTW LC250 known as the Prado?

Yes, dimensionally and in overall design the 250 and 300 are very similar.

We still await full specs on the US market LC250, so there's no way to compare its major components (diff sizes) and those of non-US LC250s and the LC300.

The fact that Toyota put the 250 on Land Cruiser's classic, multi-generation the "golden ratio" 112.2" wheelbase matters.

Payload comparison between LC 250 and 300 is notable:

LC 300: 1433lbs
LC 250: 1687lbs

Even with the small fuel tank, LC250 (and the new GX) out-range past US market Land Cruisers series. LC250's efficiency also makes it the the most payload efficient hauler of aux fuel (miles/lb).

Series / YrFuel CapacityEst. Comb. MPGFuel WeightTotal Fuel WeightRange Miles/lb Fuel Weight$/mile ($5/gal)
80 / 9225.1011.006.10153.11276.101.80$0.45
100 / 200225.4013.006.10154.94330.202.13$0.38
200 / 202024.6014.006.10150.06344.402.30$0.36
250 / 2024 (TH)17.9023.006.10109.19411.703.77$0.22
252 / 2024 (V6)(GX)21.1317.006.10128.89359.212.79$0.29

On balance, I think LC250 will be the overall best remote touring wagon ever offered in the US market.
 
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T-Willy

Well-known member
On that note, every truck has design decisions that seem to defy reason. This is better than a 50 gallon tank and 10mpg.

I think we can also take 10% off of epa estimates. Suv's never get the estimate, except with the trip computers that are always 20% optimistic.

Toyota's turbo 4 cylinder (as tested in new Tacoma) has been beating EPA estimates in tests I've thus far seen.

It'll be interesting to see how close to estimate the hybrid is, or isn't.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Yes, dimensionally and in overall design the 250 and 300 are very similar.

We still await full specs on the US market LC250, so there's no way to compare its major components (diff sizes) and those of non-US LC250s and the LC300.

The fact that Toyota put the 250 on Land Cruiser's classic, multi-generation the "golden ratio" 112.2" wheelbase matters.

Payload comparison between LC 250 and 300 is notable:

LC 300: 1433lbs
LC 250: 1687lbs

Even with the small fuel tank, LC250 (and the new GX) out-range past US market Land Cruisers series. LC250's efficiency also makes it the the most payload efficient hauler of aux fuel (miles/lb).

Series / YrFuel CapacityEst. Comb. MPGFuel WeightTotal Fuel WeightRange Miles/lb Fuel Weight$/mile ($5/gal)
80 / 9225.1011.006.10153.11276.101.80$0.45
100 / 200225.4013.006.10154.94330.202.13$0.38
200 / 202024.6014.006.10150.06344.402.30$0.36
250 / 2024 (TH)17.9023.006.10109.19411.703.77$0.22
252 / 2024 (V6)(GX)21.1317.006.10128.89359.212.79$0.29

On balance, I think LC250 will be the overall best remote touring wagon ever offered in the US market.

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment especially at this price point, unless Toyota really flubs this one.

The world-wide consistency of parts will be the cherry on top and I eagerly await that information. If the LC250 is truly global that would be an incredibly compelling package.

My heart still belongs to the Grenadier and second to that, an old 110 Defender, but this LC250 is sitting firmly in third place for my heart strings based on what I'm reading and seeing which for me means it's bumped the Wrangler down a bit. It might be the buzz of something "new", but it's hard to ignore that payload and presumed reliability combo (which isn't an unreasonable assumption to make, imo).
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
I'm inclined to agree with your assessment especially at this price point, unless Toyota really flubs this one.

The world-wide consistency of parts will be the cherry on top and I eagerly await that information. If the LC250 is truly global that would be an incredibly compelling package.

My heart still belongs to the Grenadier and second to that, an old 110 Defender, but this LC250 is sitting firmly in third place for my heart strings based on what I'm reading and seeing which for me means it's bumped the Wrangler down a bit. It might be the buzz of something "new", but it's hard to ignore that payload and presumed reliability combo (which isn't an unreasonable assumption to make, imo).

US spec Land Cruiser 250 technical data published on IH8MUD a few days ago showed payload of around 1360 lbs, not 1687 shown on the website, and thus no longer benchmarking the 1686 of 300 GX. Those data also showed lighter duty running gear, like a 8.2" rear diff compared to 9.5" on the 300 and past series.

Those technical data, which have since been removed (at Toyota's request, apparently), would paint a different picture of the 250 than what many had hoped and Toyota's materials implied. It will still be a great off roader, but will lack capacities necessary for heavier duty work like extended remote touring.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
If that pans out as true - and IH8MUD does get some breaks so that all tracks as plausible to me - I am 100% agreed with your assessment. That means this is firmly in the "lifestyle" category. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not looking for a wagon version of a Tacoma and I was hoping that this fit into the upper niche of that segment with some more HD-specs and a higher payload. That 300 lbs of payload IS a deal breaker for me though. Everything from essential equipment to fuel mileage is now more questionable/more of a compromise than it was when this thing had a 1680 lbs payload. It also raised questions as to how this is in any way meaningfully different from a 4-runner, other than aesthetics.

I hope this comment isn't misconstrued - this will still be an incredibly good adventure vehicle and I have little doubt that these things will take a lickin' and come back for more. But, it's just a bit too similar to what's currently offered and thus shares the limitations of what's currently offered and those limitations are enough to make it not quite what I want for my needs.
 

nickw

Adventurer
US spec Land Cruiser 250 technical data published on IH8MUD a few days ago showed payload of around 1360 lbs, not 1687 shown on the website, and thus no longer benchmarking the 1686 of 300 GX. Those data also showed lighter duty running gear, like a 8.2" rear diff compared to 9.5" on the 300 and past series.

Those technical data, which have since been removed (at Toyota's request, apparently), would paint a different picture of the 250 than what many had hoped and Toyota's materials implied. It will still be a great off roader, but will lack capacities necessary for heavier duty work like extended remote touring.
It's unfortunate IMO - but those IH8mud folks are always on point.

Wish we could get some of the same conversations started with the Grenadier - they are out and we still have zero specs on mechanical systems.
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
So around a 600km working range stock, empty, before off road tires. No payload numbers I can find anywhere.

The off road angles/clearances are Subaru numbers.

Canada hasn't had a Land Cruiser since 1989, so I'm pretty sure these will be flying off the lot if they start low 60s CAD.
Starts at US $55,900. When I convert that to CAD I get 75K?

Screenshot 2024-03-05 125201.png

I'd be pretty surprised to see this start at 60K. I mean I hope you're right and all but......
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Starts at US $55,900. When I convert that to CAD I get 75K?

View attachment 823000

I'd be pretty surprised to see this start at 60K. I mean I hope you're right and all but......

I agree that $60k seems low - This is where that weirdness I realized with Canadian car pricing comes into play. When the Gren was launched it seemed disproportionately expensive in Canada as compared to the USA relative to the rest of the market, so I did the math on it and it appears that Ineos just did a straight up exchange rate swap, however other brands like Ford and GM don't do that - Canadians get cheaper F-150s and such than Americans, relative to our buying power.

I think you and I might have had that chat a few months back, and you may have added the pricing of the F-150? I can't recall but here's the original chart from TheIneosForum for those curious - it highlights how price and buying power are directly related for some cars (Chrysler) but not at all for others (Ineos); I expect Toyota to be closer to the Chrysler pricing model:


Prices of Various Vehicles Expressed in Local Currency

VehicleUSACanadaUKAustraliaSouth Africa
Wrangler$56,630$65,275£62,520$98,534R1,099,900
Gladiator$55,075$67,225£N/A$94,212R1,329,900
Defender$67,875$82,730£70,925$87,830R1,816,600
Grenadier$77,300$101,084£61,970$104,385R1,584,635
Big Mac$5.78$6.70£3.81$6.48R47.24



How Many Big Macs Can I Buy For The Price Of That Car?

VehicleUSACanadaUKAustraliaSouth Africa
Wrangler9,797.69,742.516,409.515,205.923,283.2
Gladiator9,528.510,033.6N/A14,538.928,152.0
Defender11,743.112,347.818,615.513,554.038,454.7
Grenadier13,373.715,087.216,265.115,108.833,544.3


Point being - I expect the LC250 to be a bit lower than the $75k straight conversion you've shared Todd, as Toyota is likely to price in a strategy similar to Chrysler on the chart above, but I agree with you and think low $60s is ambitious - I'd put mid- to high $60s as my estimate on the starting Canadian price based on my Big Mac Theory of Automotive Pricing (the full thesis is publishing from University of Harvard any day now, I'm sure)
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
If that pans out as true - and IH8MUD does get some breaks so that all tracks as plausible to me - I am 100% agreed with your assessment. That means this is firmly in the "lifestyle" category. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not looking for a wagon version of a Tacoma and I was hoping that this fit into the upper niche of that segment with some more HD-specs and a higher payload. That 300 lbs of payload IS a deal breaker for me though. Everything from essential equipment to fuel mileage is now more questionable/more of a compromise than it was when this thing had a 1680 lbs payload. It also raised questions as to how this is in any way meaningfully different from a 4-runner, other than aesthetics.

I hope this comment isn't misconstrued - this will still be an incredibly good adventure vehicle and I have little doubt that these things will take a lickin' and come back for more. But, it's just a bit too similar to what's currently offered and thus shares the limitations of what's currently offered and those limitations are enough to make it not quite what I want for my needs.

It's unfortunate IMO - but those IH8mud folks are always on point.

Wish we could get some of the same conversations started with the Grenadier - they are out and we still have zero specs on mechanical systems.

You'll be interested in the data and discussion here. I usually don't cross link forums, but I'm short on time.
 
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nickw

Adventurer
You'll be interested in the data and discussion here. I usually don't cross link forums but I haven't the time here.
Thanks for the link - this summed it up well unfortunately and what I was fearing all along for the last few months.....it's a Prado/GX460 replacement not a "Landcruiser" replacement. It's why I also respect the heck out of the IH8mud community they get to the bottom of this stuff and respect the mechanical lineage based on facts not badges:

"Now that it is FULLY CONFIRMED that the 2024 Land Cruiser is the de facto successor to the 150 series and is the next generation of the light duty Land Cruiser, and for the US market that there are ZERO heavy duty/wagon carryovers like the GX550 is getting (larger rear diff, better payload, e-KDSS, higher towing capacity), it should really bug the hell out of you that Australia gets the 2024 GX Prado for $40k USD. I'll give you an extra $5k considering we get the hybrid. Instead, we are stuck paying $56k for something that elsewhere costs $45k. Why? Because ************** Americans will buy anything, especially when there's a vacuum of decent products in the segment.

Toyota knows they'll likely sell their production capacity at $55k to the US market..but that doesn't mean that you have to pretend like you're not getting ripped off.

Just look at the 4Runner and you'll realize that the Land Cruiser badge is just a $10k appearance package."
 

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