275/65r-18 BFG KO2 on LR3?

gatorgrizz27

Well-known member
Sorry but - why? The 265/65 is almost identical. Except now you gotta worry about rubbing and/or being stuck if you have an EAS failure.

Just do the 265/65. See below... the 'look' is just fine. And please don't buy lift rods or spacers, the engineers at Land Rover are real smart, you're not upgrading the truck by running it at the wrong height.

Thanks, leaning that direction at the moment. I was asking as I don’t mind cutting stuff that others may want to avoid. Not going the rod or spacer route, I ordered the GAP IID tool to control the suspension height. If some 3/8” steel plate spacers would allow to 275’s to drive on the bumpstops, it’s worth considering IMO.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
The GAP tool is pretty much unnecessary as well from a height perspective, your factory off-road mode will put the suspension into optimal droop/bump range (50/50, I measured). Adding 25mm/1" can be beneficial but only in some cases where breakover trumps articulation. Even the 265s required moving wires, fender flares, etc - and it still rubs when crossed-up.
 

gatorgrizz27

Well-known member
The GAP tool is pretty much unnecessary as well from a height perspective, your factory off-road mode will put the suspension into optimal droop/bump range (50/50, I measured). Adding 25mm/1" can be beneficial but only in some cases where breakover trumps articulation. Even the 265s required moving wires, fender flares, etc - and it still rubs when crossed-up.

You a Land Rover engineer? I understand some mods have downsides but you almost seem offended by it. One benefit of the EAS control of the GAP tool is resetting the standard ride height to allow more up travel/clearance, for running dirt roads with ruts, potholes, etc at moderate speeds but above 30 mph. These cars sit so low from the factory that I can’t even crawl underneath to inspect stuff at standard height, and I’m 6’, 165 lbs.

If you can clear most obstacles in a taller “standard height”, the “off-road height” can be used when a bit more is needed, but before the car senses it is high centered and goes into “extended mode”. An example of this would be a tree stump sticking out of the trail that grabs a crossmember, the only time I was stuck in my D1.

I don’t put a whole lot of stock in having equal up/down travel, as these cars have limited articulation anyways. They will lift a wheel on most obstacles but thankfully the traction control means it’s not a huge deal.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
I don’t put a whole lot of stock in having equal up/down travel

Not a Land Rover engineer, I'm an aerospace guy :) But I'd put lots of stock into why those numbers were chosen. I also have a GAP tool and I do use it for exactly what you said, to add 1" and be able to go over 25mph, which is a huge benefit here on WA forest roads. +25mm gets you to a 60/40 split which is still acceptable, above that it gets into Johnson Rods territory. I'm not sure how much you've wheeled your LR3 vs your D1 (no experience in a D1), but I have an awfully hard time getting it to lift a wheel compared to my Xterra (with IFS) or older Jeep (solid on both sides). There's 10" of travel up front and 13" out back... I can't even use my jack without a spacer to get it off the ground!
 

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Ray_G

Explorer
Interesting. I have both a D1 (lifted 3" with 33's) and an LR3 and can easily get the LR3 to lift a wheel whereas the (actual) solid axle + droop of the D1 tends to keep her planted far more often. That was also the observed experience from VOT when my partner wheeled his EAS LR3 and I used my D1, so it isn't a facet of the loss of ~1" of droop that comes with switching to coils.
 

gatorgrizz27

Well-known member
I haven’t wheeled my LR3 yet, just driven around on some dirt roads and a few mud puddles. Most everything here is loose sand, clay, or mud, though we do get some good climbs and elevation. Not really much point in going out until I get suitable tires, which was the original question. I’m basing the wheel lifting off the numerous videos I’ve watched. The D1’s, RRC’s, and Defenders (all share the same running gear), are like giant slinky’s in comparison. The downside is when they do lift a front and rear wheel simultaneously, they stop moving, unless they have lockers fitted.
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
I haven’t wheeled my LR3 yet, just driven around on some dirt roads and a few mud puddles.

Well, go get stuck first on street tires and learn in that process that everything Blaise is saying is not only correct but well tested. You're falling into the rabbit hole of nonsensical imaginative scenarios that for the most part, don't exist or are at least superseded by the highly functional balance of keeping the struts in their neutral position as much as possible, i.e. 50/50-60/40. All this "extra" up travel you think you'll add and somehow benefit from at high speeds is basically little boy toy dreaming (we've all done it, but get past it before you screw stuff up).

While Blaise is fairly new to the lr3 specifically, he also dug in more than most people and really researched and tested some ideas. Hence his arrival at the tire size/ ride height.

I've been using mine right to and past it's limits since buying it in 2007 but also arrived at the sensible and highly capable non-rod lifted strut approach. You can use a 32" tire, the referenced 275/65-18 on factory lr3 wheels with no spacer or rods but you do have to complete the physical modifications such as moving the rear hvac lines, flattening both rear wheel well metal standing seams and associated plastic, as well as the wiring loom up front on driver side. Factory bumpers may also be a problem during full turns.

Rods: A. dumb B. more dumb C. only useful when combined, as necessary, with the strut top spacer (struts end up at factory 50/50 but vehicle sits 2" above the factory height. No loss in proper suspension travel, minor losses in ideal handling dynamics but any change of course reduces the factory engineered geometries.

Wheel spacers: A. looks cool, obviously. B. worsens problems inherent to this vehicle in terms of tire clearance while turning as well as fender flare contact at full articulation. People, in this thread, who claim it helps with vehicle track width first solved nothing by adding rods but then screwed it all up in the process.

Strut spacers: the only true "lift" that increases anything the vehicle cannot already do by itself (rods do nothing but just put the vehicle higher all the time, they do not in fact increase the maximum available height - they are a scam in claims of that purpose). LR3's simply set 2" higher handle like crap at speed, cornering, essentially making it more dangerous IN ADDITION TO making the compressor run more than it was intended LOL.

You know why ALL high performance air suspension vehicles allow higher speed LOWERING? It's because lower is better as highway speed, not 2" higher LOL

Now, you want to run gravel roads a little higher? Fine, it's mostly unnecessary, but just use the GAP or LLAms to add a bit during those times. 2" is more than needed though and actually seems to be less good in strut performance than standard height. 20-25mm seems just about right for the worse tracks.

To sum it up, stick with 265/65-18 unless you're willing to do the physical mods. With those mods, including mandatory tire relocation, you can then 100% run 32" 275/65-18 on an lr3 with no wheel spacers at all factory heights, no problem, slammed to extended.

I run that tire size year round for various trip types. This winter it was 8000 miles on michelin ltx winters. Standard summer tires vary but the strut spacer allows for up to 34" still with full lowering into a garage, etc.

One benefit of a 32" etc is that you can use lower psi while still retaining fairly decent ground clearance and not need to compensate by raising the suspension past it's ideal ranges. For example, on the 34's at 22-24 psi the ride over rougher terrain, even at a bit of speed, is still fantastic due to the psi but also the suspension is at it's normal zone seeing as the tire size itself is providing plenty of height for gravel double tracks and such. The most carpet-ride setting is +20mm on the 34's set to 22-24psi. Keep in mind the psi, for another thread, is entirely vehicle dependent because mine can weigh 7000-8500 lbs while a stock one will still feel like 24 psi isn't all that soft yet. You can see this in the sidewalls if out with someone else.

There are some slick equations for tire deflection per vehicle weight but I don't have my hands on one. You can understand though that a 6000 lb vehicle can use a lower psi to have same effect as an 8000 lb on same tire size, etc.

Hopefully this was useful as it is probably the 1000th thread on the topic LOL
 

amcjen

Member
Honest post—I’m surprised many haven’t lifted wheels when off-roading. We were getting a lot happening recently and figured it was pretty common. Am I the only one?

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Jwestpro

Explorer
Honest post—I’m surprised many haven’t lifted wheels when off-roading. We were getting a lot happening recently and figured it was pretty common. Am I the only one?

It's easy to lift a wheel on the lr3 but the terrain really makes a big difference and it's not about 'difficult' vs 'easy' but rather simple situations like your photo shows. However, it's also about driving style.... you could have easily chosen a route right there resulting in no wheel lift ;)

Also a larger tire, with less psi, will help keep all tires in contact, only by a little but still it helps. To use your rear view photo again as an example, had you been on a 32" tire, at 18 psi, I am certain that exact spot would have retained 4 tire contact. (I see almost no deformation in the right rear tire suggesting not very low psi)
 

amcjen

Member
It's easy to lift a wheel on the lr3 but the terrain really makes a big difference and it's not about 'difficult' vs 'easy' but rather simple situations like your photo shows. However, it's also about driving style.... you could have easily chosen a route right there resulting in no wheel lift ;)

Also a larger tire, with less psi, will help keep all tires in contact, only by a little but still it helps. To use your rear view photo again as an example, had you been on a 32" tire, at 18 psi, I am certain that exact spot would have retained 4 tire contact. (I see almost no deformation in the right rear tire suggesting not very low psi)

Meh, that trail was pretty gutted from the heavy winter we had. Agree on this pic but some spots just didn’t have the line (room really) to do anything but articulate over.

To bring it back to the topic—there hasn’t been a place I could not go with 265s. I’ve been super happy with them.
 
Regardless of opinions on lines, tire size, etc., this is a good spot to speak of how dangerous three-wheel action is with a ******** ton of weight on the roof-rack. So many people forget how CGs change and tip-over angles are drastically reduced in situations like this with weight and tire flex! Not an issue in this photo of course, but for those who want to put their Rover on three wheels the first time, I suggest you get really intimate with your vehicle when its empty and then know what the limits are in trail configuration; you will find it is much much different in these configurations.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
Victory_Overland: Yes, this! And all the more reason to keep the weight off the roof! Part of the reason I really like my LR3 is because there is plenty of space for cargo INSIDE the truck. Adding roof racks and such is only adding weight and the ability add even more weight -- all in the worst possible place during a tippy situation.

JWest: Thanks for the kind words. 100% agree on everything. By the way I'm doing a front diff rebuild for my truck right now so shoot me a message if you want to see how it's done.
 

Al Blue4.6l

Member
So I've read a bunch of these threads but haven't seen a firm answer on whether moving the HVAC line and flattening the seam in the rear wheel wells is necessary with 265/65/18s (on a truck used off-road). Is there one? Or is it truck dependent?
 

Blaise

Well-known member
So I've read a bunch of these threads but haven't seen a firm answer on whether moving the HVAC line and flattening the seam in the rear wheel wells is necessary with 265/65/18s (on a truck used off-road). Is there one? Or is it truck dependent?

Not "needed" for 265/65, although you may run into the seam anyway but it'll just wear the fender liners a bit. I haven't done it yet on mine and I have some wear. Not planning on doing HVAC line move.
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
So I've read a bunch of these threads but haven't seen a firm answer on whether moving the HVAC line and flattening the seam in the rear wheel wells is necessary with 265/65/18s (on a truck used off-road). Is there one? Or is it truck dependent?

The requirement occurs at 275/65-18. It also is more apparent on truer/larger actual molds of that size. For example, my BFG AT ko2 are visibly smaller than same size Michelin MS2 and the first time I noticed it being a big issue was going from the 'no problem' size of 265/65-18 BFG at ko1 to a 275/65-18 Goodyear Duratrac. My guess is the GY was not only larger by numbers but also by brand seeing how my current tires compare.

Anyway, when I put the GY on in that ~32" size, the hvac and body seam instantly became a problem even just on the highway like when you hit a long dip that compresses the suspension and before it can rebound fully, you hit the ramp out of the long dip which compresses the struts more and you hear "scruonche" in the rear fender liner area. ;) Upon inspection you find that maybe 50 more of those will wear right through the plastic and into the metal seam against the back of it. (I'm tired and drinking so hope that makes sense)

It is likely however that under maximum articulation, the 265/65-18 would also rub often or too much. Blaise might know.
 

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