4 link, Coilover, 4x4, e350 Conversion - King / Full Traction

philos

Explorer
We're telling you to use Chris' kit, because you've stated that you're new to this. We're trying to HELP you avoid costly mistakes, extra time trying to make stuff designed for another application work, and general headaches.... but it's your time and money.
Be a big boy and do it yourself if you don't like our advice, but don't get pissed when the advice we give doesn't mesh with your dreams. Maybe try Pirate for some one-off type builds.
 

mikracer

Adventurer
If you have the ability to fab/weld, then anything is possible. Your original post was about trying to modify a kit thats not made for the E series to make it fit to the E series. As stated above, people were just trying to help you avoid headaches by getting a kit thats made and designed for the E series. Now that I think about it, the UJOR kit is the only kit I've seen thats marketed to the home builders. Quigley, Advanced, or any of the other outfits only install their kits in house which is another reason why most DIY guys are pointing you in that direction.

If you decide on fabbing up your own kit or modifying the kit you posted, I think the most important thing to figure out is the steering geometry.
 

tgreening

Expedition Leader
I guess it depends on what you want. Do want to get rolling, or do you want to build it yourself? There's nothing wrong with either one, but if you're going to take a kit not designed for your ride and beat it into submission to work, you're probably wasting a whole bunch of money.

There are places out there whose primary function is providing the raw materials to build your own 4-link. I'd roll that way if I were you. Someone here that knows better than I has already said the bulk of that kit you're looking to use won't work and will either have to be tossed and replaced or modded. Why waste the money? Bottom line I guess is if you're to be rolling your own anyway (for the most part) you might as well go the whole way. It would probably be easier to fab a mount that works from scratch than to try to make something work.

Pirate probably IS a good place to go to get the scoop on where to source long arms, johnnie joints, axle mounts, etc.
 
We're telling you to use Chris' kit, because you've stated that you're new to this. We're trying to HELP you avoid costly mistakes, extra time trying to make stuff designed for another application work, and general headaches.... but it's your time and money.
Be a big boy and do it yourself if you don't like our advice, but don't get pissed when the advice we give doesn't mesh with your dreams. Maybe try Pirate for some one-off type builds.
So you're saying we can move along now? Fantasitc!

Your original post was about trying to modify a kit thats not made for the E series to make it fit to the E series.
Yes, and I appreciate that Chris took the time to address my questions. His response got me looking into the kit further, and I still consider it a reasonable option for the reasons I previously stated. The bulk of the kit does fit up just fine, I'd just need to modify the hoop on the upper mount, and address the track bar, which may or may not be too involving. Pretty simple. The only other concern is if the tubing is long enough, but I won't know that until I can take a few measurements.

I guess it depends on what you want. Do want to get rolling, or do you want to build it yourself? There's nothing wrong with either one, but if you're going to take a kit not designed for your ride and beat it into submission to work, you're probably wasting a whole bunch of money.

There are places out there whose primary function is providing the raw materials to build your own 4-link. I'd roll that way if I were you. Someone here that knows better than I has already said the bulk of that kit you're looking to use won't work and will either have to be tossed and replaced or modded. Why waste the money? Bottom line I guess is if you're to be rolling your own anyway (for the most part) you might as well go the whole way. It would probably be easier to fab a mount that works from scratch than to try to make something work.

Pirate probably IS a good place to go to get the scoop on where to source long arms, johnnie joints, axle mounts, etc.
You make some good points tgreening. Like I said, I might just build it out myself, because I think I can fabricate these parts for cheaper than the price of the kit. I do think that the kit would be pretty easy though, so I haven't yet decided on which way to go. Thanks for all of the help you've given answering my questions, I appreciate it.
 

Teamoatmealpie

Observer
You might want to track down a few for sale - drive them and see what type of road manners they have- see what type of build equals what type of ride quality.
Plus gives you a chance to ask the owners about what they like and don't like about their build- what wears out etc.
 
You might want to track down a few for sale - drive them and see what type of road manners they have- see what type of build equals what type of ride quality.
Plus gives you a chance to ask the owners about what they like and don't like about their build- what wears out etc.

Hi Teamoatmealpie. I'd definitely love to! Unfortunately though, I think it would be difficult to find anyone with the Full Traction kit on their F350, that would also let me drive it. I'll be sure to address the geometry, so the steering and such should be fine, but I'm quite interested in knowing how each of the different coil-over setups perform - Fox, King, etc. I have no doubt that the UJOR kit handles very well on and off road. As for the Quigley, Salem, Quad vans, I already know that they're not quite what I'm looking for, so that simplifies things.
 

Shocker

VanDOOM!
Well, good luck with the project and keep us informed. I do find it interesting that you said you have no experience with cars and stuff, but you post like you have axle grease running through your veins. What is your background? Do you have a lot of fab experience? Sounds very ambitious for someone who has never done anything automotive.
 
Well, good luck with the project and keep us informed. I do find it interesting that you said you have no experience with cars and stuff, but you post like you have axle grease running through your veins. What is your background? Do you have a lot of fab experience? Sounds very ambitious for someone who has never done anything automotive.

I'm a Mechanical Engineering student. I've worked for 5 years as a "manufacturing engineer" at a precision sheet metal / fabrication shop. I've little to no experience with vehicles, though I have designed a good number of parts for many of the off road 4x4 companies out here, for Cobb Racing, custom cabs for snow-cats, and many many assemblies and complex mechanical systems for various different companies =)

Thanks for the well wishing! I'll post up whatever I wind up running with.

Edit: The parts that I've worked with for automotive application generally come across my desk as something that is broken and needs to be made better. Often time, the reason the part failed in the first place can be addressed by breaking things up, and manufacturing them with different processes.
 
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gohuge

Observer
I was considering using the same kit on my Ex. However, after more digging, I am leaning toward a mix of Carli springs and OUO adjustable radius arms, instead.
Mated to a 2005+ D60 of course. I'm not a huge fan of coilovers on a go slow vehicle. On a rail, trophy truck, comp buggy with a cage, different.
Easier to rebuild/replace a shock that isn't structural. If you plan on 100 MPH across the desert...then I get it. In a van? I think you can achieve as good
or better results with external shocks and progressive rate coils in buckets. Just seems more practical/less overkill.
 

tgreening

Expedition Leader
I was considering using the same kit on my Ex. However, after more digging, I am leaning toward a mix of Carli springs and OUO adjustable radius arms, instead.
Mated to a 2005+ D60 of course. I'm not a huge fan of coilovers on a go slow vehicle. On a rail, trophy truck, comp buggy with a cage, different.
Easier to rebuild/replace a shock that isn't structural. If you plan on 100 MPH across the desert...then I get it. In a van? I think you can achieve as good
or better results with external shocks and progressive rate coils in buckets. Just seems more practical/less overkill.


Well in defense of the build plan, coil-overs make ride height adjustments and suspension tuning on the fly pretty simple. At least up front. I think the plan is still leaf springs out back. There are plenty of go-slows out there using the coil over setups. Massive articulation can be had using the design so it was real popular in the rock crawling crowd. I think it's progressed to rock "racing" now, but I've pretty much quit following all of it for the time being so I don't know what the suspension fad of the moment is.

Buuut, overall I agree. Buuut, it's his money, his ride, and he's the only guy he needs to please.

To the OP. One thing to consider. When Jeep came out with the TJ they used a factory short arm 4-link setup. People started mucking about with it, using aftermarket lift kits engineered by the "experts", and there was a pretty serious problem with death-wobble. If you aren't familiar look that up. It can make you crap your pants like a world class olympic level pants crapper, and tracking down/eliminating its cause can be frustrating and expensive. It doesn't always follow the rules so to speak.

Before you start building you really should look into that. Talk to the people that have had it, what caused it, etc etc. I had that in a chevy truck I had bought back in the 80's and I'll tell you, you want nothing to do with it. It would show up randomly and vary from just a mild shimmy and gone, to the entire front end of the truck jumping off the ground, at speed. Nooo thanks.
 
I was considering using the same kit on my Ex. However, after more digging, I am leaning toward a mix of Carli springs and OUO adjustable radius arms, instead.
Mated to a 2005+ D60 of course. I'm not a huge fan of coilovers on a go slow vehicle. On a rail, trophy truck, comp buggy with a cage, different.
Easier to rebuild/replace a shock that isn't structural. If you plan on 100 MPH across the desert...then I get it. In a van? I think you can achieve as good
or better results with external shocks and progressive rate coils in buckets. Just seems more practical/less overkill.

The adjustable radius arms are interesting, thanks for passing that along. It looks like a nice option for people looking to alter as little as possible, attain a level of adjustability for their caster angles, and avoid using drop brackets on the radius arms. I think though that swapping out the factory mount/bracket and running a proper 4 link is a better way to go, especially since it would cost about the same.

The coil overs seem fun. I'm not running them for huge articulation. To get that I'd really have to build the mounts up into the engine bay, and then the rear is still running leaf springs anyway. I'm really just interested to see what kind of a ride I can get out of one of these setups. And, although the van is a big heavy beast, it's also not driven the same as a trophy truck, which isn't all that light of a vehicle either. It's unlikely that I'll be putting the level of force on my suspension that the typical coil over user will put on theirs, and that the shock is designed to hold up to.

If I did manage to break a shock though, I can just weld on some pads and swap over to a coil/bucket setup, like you're saying. I'm discovering a lot of sites designed for building suspensions, like Rusty's Off Road, Parts Mike, Barnes 4wd, that make me not too worried, since most of the fabrication is done and really it's just a weld in place kind of thing. I've also been watching Extreme 4x4, and whatever the other show is with the same guy, and that's been really helpful. Shoot, I was watching it last night and I was ready to build a hybrid, Corporate 14bolt / Dana front axle! Just kidding ... but only because a truss wouldn't fit well under the van and I don't want to replace that ma$$ive axle tubing. But the price / performance of that truss'd axle can't be beat! He built that thing for like $300

Well in defense of the build plan, coil-overs make ride height adjustments and suspension tuning on the fly pretty simple. At least up front. I think the plan is still leaf springs out back. There are plenty of go-slows out there using the coil over setups. Massive articulation can be had using the design so it was real popular in the rock crawling crowd. I think it's progressed to rock "racing" now, but I've pretty much quit following all of it for the time being so I don't know what the suspension fad of the moment is.

Buuut, overall I agree. Buuut, it's his money, his ride, and he's the only guy he needs to please.

To the OP. One thing to consider. When Jeep came out with the TJ they used a factory short arm 4-link setup. People started mucking about with it, using aftermarket lift kits engineered by the "experts", and there was a pretty serious problem with death-wobble. If you aren't familiar look that up. It can make you crap your pants like a world class olympic level pants crapper, and tracking down/eliminating its cause can be frustrating and expensive. It doesn't always follow the rules so to speak.

Before you start building you really should look into that. Talk to the people that have had it, what caused it, etc etc. I had that in a chevy truck I had bought back in the 80's and I'll tell you, you want nothing to do with it. It would show up randomly and vary from just a mild shimmy and gone, to the entire front end of the truck jumping off the ground, at speed. Nooo thanks.

Thanks for mentioning death wobble. I've been reading a bit about that and it sounds downright frightening. I remember a professor of mine talking about it in a Differential Equations class that I took, he thought the oscillation was pretty awesome. He also talked about the Rancho adjustable shocks in that class.

In every case though it's going to come down to some component of the system being loose, or otherwise failing. Either that, or poor design, likely improper angles, causing forces to go up somewhere that's not designed to handle them. Or, forces exceeding the limitations of the system, like from running too large of tires, or improper offset of the wheels, or something like that.
 
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BajaSportsmobile

Baja Ironman
death-wobble. It doesn't always follow the rules so to speak.

Talk to the people that have had it, what caused it, etc etc. I had that in a chevy truck I had bought back in the 80's and I'll tell you, you want nothing to do with it. It would show up randomly and vary from just a mild shimmy and gone, to the entire front end of the truck jumping off the ground, at speed. Nooo thanks.

That Chevy truck was leaf sprung wasn't it?

I've experienced DW's in VW's, MG's, Triumphs, F-Series trucks and Broncos, Chevy trucks and Blazers, Jeep Cherokees and some other random cars - it has nothing to do with what type of spring holds up the vehicle.

I think you could modify that kit and make it work with not that much trouble. Would I do it, probably not. I'd be more inclined to use more stock components from the 2005 on up F-series.

Also, I would never* build a leaf sprung 4X4 front axle vehicle, especially a van. I have driven all of the major 4X4 van converters leaf sprung products, and several examples of each, not just one and they are just not for me. We have removed those systems a couple of times for dissatisfied owners and even built new vans for owners who wanted out of their well know leaf sprung vans. There is a reason that ALL OEM's have moved away from them.

Still, to each his own, and there is a market for them and satisfied customers.

* A bit of a lie, I am "restoring" a vintage 1968 Bronco (they came with coil springs and radius arms) that was lengthened 18 inches and converted to front leaf springs back in the day (early '70s, what were they thinking?) with four shocks per corner. I want to keep it period correct but know it is going to be rough. I could make it so much better...

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P.s. I'm not trying to sell our product - we can't handle any more. I'm trying to retire.
 

Toolman

Explorer
I've been thinking about this as a nice day dream and I would do it, but start from scratch. Maybe source some parts from the kit mentioned but you won't use all of it.
If you are anywhere near LA you are welcome to drive my van. I love messin with my van, but it is way more fun on the trail.
 
I think you could modify that kit and make it work with not that much trouble. Would I do it, probably not. I'd be more inclined to use more stock components from the 2005 on up F-series.

I agree. I didn't know much coming into this thread, but I see now that it wouldn't take too much to get that kit into a van, for anyone with decent welding ability.

Yeah, I'm just looking at going this route because I want 6" to 8"of lift and 35 to 37 tires. If I just wanted a solid axle with coil springs up front, and 3.5" of lift, I think that I'd also do it like you're saying. Use many stock parts off an 05+, get a new Pittman arm, and build some brackets for the sway and track bar.

I'm curious though, how you would address the caster angle using the stock radius arms? Would you adjust the bracket on the axle, or modify the radius arms? Or maybe something else?

That's a nice looking Bronco! I loved those as a kid. My neighbor had one, I thought it was a "monster truck"
 

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