4WC - Overrated and overpriced

[Cambruggeman]

I have to agree with OP. My dad had a 4wc and there is always a problem, weather it’s moisture, weight, issues opening and closing, etc. and he paid a good 20k for it a long time ago.
i built a custom popup myself for $1050 over the course of a couple months, and zero issues. I understand not everyone has the skill set or desire to build one, but it seems to me the high price is not a ‘market value’ issue. Its a gouging issue. There are limited options, but a desired product, therefore they have jacked up the price, and I can see how one might think thats how markets work. However, there is a line where its out of hand. The materials needed to build a 4wc are simply not expensive enough to justify the price. Especially considering the less than optimal quality of workmanship. Sorry guys, just dont think they are worth the money.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

This is an interesting subject and maybe what is needed to reel in these companies that do less than quality work.
Maybe we need a rv review forum/thread.

 

[tacollie]

This is an interesting subject and maybe what is needed to reel in these companies that do less than quality work.
Maybe we need a rv review forum/thread.

As long as sales stay consistent it won't matter. People have been complaining about it on the internet for years and nothing has changed.

 

[Hopeless Diamond]

Hallmark owner here, very happy. Have had it in some very wet conditions and didn't have any condensation problems. As the majority of the structure is made with composite panels, you don't get the cold bridges like you do with an aluminum framed structure such as 4WC. They're heavier but you can get them as sparten or overbuilt as you like. Haven't priced them lately but I imagine they've gotten quite pricey. When we ordered ours in 2014, a comparable 4WC was within 10%. The lifting of the top and overall feel of it (I went to both factories)was well worth it to us.

 

[JaSAn]

Both FWC and ATC have an 18 month wait for a new camper - so they are not overpriced.

Overrated? In what way?
My Grandby is 44 years old, structurally sound, weathertight, light weight, and comfortable for me.
That gives it a high rating from me.

 

[ripperj]

It obviously doesn’t matter much what we think, if you are booked solid for over a year, you must be doing something right!


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[kmacafee]

Both FWC and ATC have an 18 month wait for a new camper - so they are not overpriced.

Overrated? In what way?
My Grandby is 44 years old, structurally sound, weathertight, light weight, and comfortable for me.
That gives it a high rating from me.

New Winnebago Revels prices start at $160,000 + and there is a huge waiting list. Overpriced for what it is? Absolutely. Are they trouble free? Apparently not as there is at least one class action suit out there due to engine and other problems. Is it smart financing a depreciating asset as if its a house? Hell no. But, like FWC, they are riding the wave of interest in overlanding and camping in general and as long as people are buying with their hearts and not their brains, sales will continue to be strong. Like anything else, the wave will crest and there will be many of these vehicles on the used market in the near future.

 

[tacollie]

Hallmark owner here, very happy. Have had it in some very wet conditions and didn't have any condensation problems. As the majority of the structure is made with composite panels, you don't get the cold bridges like you do with an aluminum framed structure such as 4WC. They're heavier but you can get them as sparten or overbuilt as you like. Haven't priced them lately but I imagine they've gotten quite pricey. When we ordered ours in 2014, a comparable 4WC was within 10%. The lifting of the top and overall feel of it (I went to both factories)was well worth it to us.

We priced a Hallmark but it was an additional $7k. Hallmarks are nice. The one we looked at was layered out well.

 

[tacollie]

i built a custom popup myself for $1050 over the course of a couple months

I debated building my own. The windows I priced out were more than your camper. So was the diesel heater. I was ready to order the materials when she pointed out I was working 70 hours a week.

FWC was installed and 2 days later were left for a 10 day trip. 2 years later and zero regrets.

FWC has run to improve but plenty of people are happy with them.

 

[beef tits]

Speaking of our poor build quality. The Flippac makes the FWC look like a finely crafted piece of art. I guess that's the perspective thing again?

I'll agree with this.

I just picked up a used Flippac that's actually in good condition with no issues, no rot, tent is in good shape... it's just a mediocre design that was never built all that well to begin with. but for what I sold that 4WC for, I can deal with it.

I really like the build quality of the AT Summit/Atlas, but those are also extremely overpriced for what they are. Glorified camper shell with a RTT.

 

[tacollie]

I'll agree with this.

I just picked up a used Flippac that's actually in good condition with no issues, no rot, tent is in good shape... it's just a mediocre design that was never built all that well to begin with. but for what I sold that 4WC for, I can deal with it.

I really like the build quality of the AT Summit/Atlas, but those are also extremely overpriced for what they are.

Our Flippac was $5800 delivered with tax in 2013. It took 9 months to get delivered. The torsion bar broke within 6 months and it took another 7 months to get a replacement.

We looked at the AT stuff. By the time we added a heater and windows it was over $11k. She wanted a door so it was out.

The FWC was delivered the day they said it would be when we put our deposit down. 4 months to the day. It had some minor issues but hasn't required any replacement parts. 12v plug would blow a fuse everything you plugged something into it.

 

[FordGuy1]

I love my FWC. Never one issue except adjusting the water pump after 6 years. I have used the crap out of it, wheeled it to death, and had a blast with it. I would have paid more!! I also think the people are excellent, especially Stan. I just looked at a Opus trailer for 80k, my FWC is definitely built better.

 

[Todd780]

Maybe we need a rv review forum/thread.

That's pretty easy. They all are pretty crappy. Review complete.

.......I say this as an RV owner....

 

[Cambruggeman]

I debated building my own. The windows I priced out were more than your camper. So was the diesel heater. I was ready to order the materials when she pointed out I was working 70 hours a week.

FWC was installed and 2 days later were left for a 10 day trip. 2 years later and zero regrets.

FWC has run to improve but plenty of people are happy with them.

i get it. And agree many of those partscan get crazy expensive. And like i said, its a big commitment and not everyone has the time. My windows and about half of my water system came from an older full size truck camper I bought for $100 and parted out. Took the stuff I needed, sold the rest. I think i actually made a few bucks on it. Hilarious. And to each their own. Believe me when I say im not critiquing 4wc owners. I get it. Im critiquing the industry. If you have the means to afford a 4wc, you have probably worked **************** off for years to get where you are, and im happy you are able to get out into the bush and relax. They just dont make sense for me. Ive had quite a few rvs over the years, and currently have a forest river wildcatt maxx for when i take the whole family. I could make a much longer critique list and poor quality issues list for it. Its sad.

 

[IdaSHO]

I've said it before, and Ill likely say it again... and again...

The RV industry is, in fairness, made up of absolute garbage. But it serves a purpose.
The VAST majority of RVs pend 90+% of their lives in the driveway.
But that other 10% is spent making memories. And that's worth a LOT of coin to most.

If you feel it isn't worth what they are charging, I challenge you to build something similar.
Your time isn't free, and neither is a builders', so proceed with caution.

I'm one of the very few on this forum that purpose built, from scratch, a custom 4-season camper that will last the test of time.
The proof is already there. Its been on the road since 2013, likely already has 80k+ road miles on it, and countless nights in every type of weather.

Interested in knowing how much it cost?
Keep reading... I'm happy to share.

All in, I have a bit less than $10k into the camper, as it sits.
Time and labor? Estimated 600+ hours including R&D. Even at a reasonable $50/hr that's a a solid $30k just in labor.
More realistic would be $80/hr+ And I already have the tools and the shop. Do you?
So a total of $40k in materials and labor, not including tools and shop needed.

How about a custom purpose build bed? Yep, built that too.
A touch more than $10k in just materials and shop supplies for that.
Labor? Not really sure, but likely 50 hours or so. So perhaps about $2500 in labor, at the very least.
Again, already have the tools and shop.
So a total of $12500 in materials and labor, not including tools and shop.

The truck? Paid $16k cash for it, with a touch more than 100k miles on it.
6.2, 6-speed, 4wd, was a fleet truck. Not terribly clean, but it has it where it counts.
Add another $4500 in bits to make it what we need. Chassis extension, bumper, winch, OBA, etc, etc...
Again, all done myself, in my shop, with my tools.
I dont know... maybe another 50 hours of labor for changes?
So figure a total of $23k for truck, upgrades, and labor.
Oops, almost forgot about a set (including matching spare) of wheels and high load tires. Add $3500
Truck total... 26,500

Totals all in??

Lets do the math...
$26500 for truck
$12500 for bed
$40000 for camper

That's how you wind up with a $79,000, just a call it an $80k setup, home brewed.
That is just materials and labor mind you. Businesses need profit to keep the lights on, and to grow/improve.

Would I do it again? Perhaps. But not likely.
Would I pay for a similar turn key setup if I had the cash, and valued my free time more? Absolutely.
But I'm aware of just how much effort, blood, and sweat goes into such a project.
My fear, is that most simply do not.