Ovis Canis
Observer
Don't really on the tape alone if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Put rivet in also, just wet install them with an epoxy. This is standard. I've built C5 galaxy replacement parts, G5's, Blackhawks and 747's. Completely normal.
a little aluminum advice please!
- Thread starter hidefxj
- Start date
They use 3M VHB tape in commercial trailer manufacturing. Plus check out this video. http://youtu.be/S_fM5cqSODc
I know this is an old thread, I had the same question as the OP.
This may help dispel some thinking that this tape would be inappropriate for small trailer builds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnjnDaUx7go&list=PLED7BC924132F3283&index=1
I saw it the other day on the History channel, it was in the middle of the top ten strongest things. The windows in that tallest building in Dubi are fastened in with only the VHB tape. They don't heat anything to apply it. It expands .015" allowing contraction or expansion of materials. Earthquake, wind storms and tornados pose serious issues with skyscrapers, I'd think that the building inspectors and engineers wouldn't allow tapped in windows unless it exceeded safety requirements. I'm thinking the chemical bond lasts as long as the other minerals it is bonding.....if the tape fails in 5 years that means all those windows would be falling out in 5 years.....right? logical.
I watched several of the videos. Since I doubt I could weld aluminum, seems like this tape is the answer with simple butt joints.
Pricy, but cheaper than welding.
So, has anyone used this on any vehicle/trailer applications? Other thoughts?
This may help dispel some thinking that this tape would be inappropriate for small trailer builds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnjnDaUx7go&list=PLED7BC924132F3283&index=1
I saw it the other day on the History channel, it was in the middle of the top ten strongest things. The windows in that tallest building in Dubi are fastened in with only the VHB tape. They don't heat anything to apply it. It expands .015" allowing contraction or expansion of materials. Earthquake, wind storms and tornados pose serious issues with skyscrapers, I'd think that the building inspectors and engineers wouldn't allow tapped in windows unless it exceeded safety requirements. I'm thinking the chemical bond lasts as long as the other minerals it is bonding.....if the tape fails in 5 years that means all those windows would be falling out in 5 years.....right? logical.
I watched several of the videos. Since I doubt I could weld aluminum, seems like this tape is the answer with simple butt joints.
Pricy, but cheaper than welding.
So, has anyone used this on any vehicle/trailer applications? Other thoughts?
java
Expedition Leader
I drilled and screwed my aluminum lid to the steel frame, with a bead of urethane caulk. Drilled the holes in the aluminum ever so slightly larger than the thread on the screws. Screwed roughly every 6" including down the middle. No warpage or screw head popping issues yet.
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protohyp
Adventurer
I drilled and screwed my aluminum lid to the steel frame, with a bead of urethane caulk. Drilled the holes in the aluminum ever so slightly larger than the thread on the screws. Screwed roughly every 6" including down the middle. No warpage or screw head popping issues yet.
I hope you separated the steel and aluminum by the bead of caulk or some other barrier. Even water that leaks into the screw hole and contacts both the steel and aluminum can cause galvanic corrosion and either the screw will weaken or be impossible to unscrew. condensation is also an enemy if steel and aluminum is touching each other in any way
Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
There is a long history of race cars built by riveting aluminum sheet to welded tube-steel frames. Take a look at every Lotus-7 and every Locost clone built in the last 50+ years. The issue of galvanic corrosion is overstated, at a minimum.
Yes, it is something that happens, but some basic precautions (such as painting the steel frame first) are really all that's needed.
For the OP, or anyone else considering such methods, I highly recommend you purchase or find at your local library a book called "Build your own race car for 250GBP"
(http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Sports-Little-£250/dp/1859606369)
The author extensively covers the techniques for sheeting aluminum over a tube-steel frame with rivets. More importantly for OP's application: He covers the process for annealing the sheet aluminum so that it can be successfully bent over a radius without cracking or tearing.
I wouldn't hesitate to take that approach. Paint the steel, and goop the rivets before seating them, and you'll be fine.
Yes, it is something that happens, but some basic precautions (such as painting the steel frame first) are really all that's needed.
For the OP, or anyone else considering such methods, I highly recommend you purchase or find at your local library a book called "Build your own race car for 250GBP"
(http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Sports-Little-£250/dp/1859606369)
The author extensively covers the techniques for sheeting aluminum over a tube-steel frame with rivets. More importantly for OP's application: He covers the process for annealing the sheet aluminum so that it can be successfully bent over a radius without cracking or tearing.
I wouldn't hesitate to take that approach. Paint the steel, and goop the rivets before seating them, and you'll be fine.
millerfish
Adventurer
Why not build the frames out of aluminum also?
Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
No reason not to, if you can afford the price difference and have the capability to weld aluminum.
Aluminum tube will be considerably more expensive per lineal foot, generally. More importantly, welding aluminum is tricky at best. Usually the material is factory heat-treated, so you must have good technique and equipment to avoid breaking the heat treat (annealing) or worse, getting cracking, or localized embrittlement at the weld-site.
Beyond that, the only other consideration is strength. Aluminum is generally either lighter for a given strength, or stronger for a given weight, but you'll want to be careful about engineering the tube size so that it is strong enough.
Conversely, steel is cheap and easily welded by almost anyone with only a little practice. Sticking to any practical size tube (say 2" x 3" for a trailer-frame and 1" square for framing a box), you'd be hard-pressed not to OVERBUILD the trailer out of steel.
protohyp
Adventurer
I hear you but after years of working in Airstreams it certainly takes due diligence to make sure of the things you are describing which I know for a fact Airstream doesn't in a lot of cases. Just wanted to make sure he was aware of taking the precautions
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Well, just saw a TV show, Mega RVs Countdown, in Germany a guy had a beautiful Class A, at the $1,000,000 range, the owner said there was not a screw or rivet anywhere in the body that it was all glued together and was "seamless" in the conventional sense, butt joints I suppose. Didn't say if it was the VHB tape.
Found too that the tape has an electrostatic resistance that prevents or would delay the galvanic reaction, I agree with Herbie that it's usually an overstated concern (had an aluminum trailer bolted to a painted steel frame and never had an issue, that was over a 25 year period, some rust but still good) but is a greater concern in saltwater with boats.
Anyway, seeing that Mega RV using glues to fit the body panels together seems to sell the idea of using adhesive or the VHB tapes, there are several types depending on the materials too.
At least for me, a guy who couldn't weld a secure bead on two pieces of aluminum if it was a matter of life and death, the adhesive route seems to be a viable solution.
BTW, the only thing better than a Lotus Seven is a Lotus Super Seven.
Found too that the tape has an electrostatic resistance that prevents or would delay the galvanic reaction, I agree with Herbie that it's usually an overstated concern (had an aluminum trailer bolted to a painted steel frame and never had an issue, that was over a 25 year period, some rust but still good) but is a greater concern in saltwater with boats.
Anyway, seeing that Mega RV using glues to fit the body panels together seems to sell the idea of using adhesive or the VHB tapes, there are several types depending on the materials too.
At least for me, a guy who couldn't weld a secure bead on two pieces of aluminum if it was a matter of life and death, the adhesive route seems to be a viable solution.
BTW, the only thing better than a Lotus Seven is a Lotus Super Seven.