A "what to buy" question - E350, F250, Extended or Not

[sakurama]

I've inherited my father's 28' Avion trailer which has turned out to be a lot of fun. My F150 with a 5.4 does not share my enthusiasm. I've also grown rather tired of my stuff getting wet in the back of the pickup. But I have a few motorcycles.

So 15 years ago I saw my first lifted Sportsmobile and was smitten. Of course I couldn't afford one and it didn't fit my needs at the time so I ended up with my F150 Supercrew which has been a stellar truck up till now. It tows the trailer okay save for hills and mountain passes of which we have a few here in Oregon. So I'm now considering a 4x4 van or at least a diesel van with an eye to converting it down the road. It seems the nice diesel vans with 4x4 are selling north of $30k and I want to top out at maybe 20k or less. I want no debt and the F150 probably won't fetch more than $7-8000.

So, I guess my question is what to get. If there's a reason to consider staying with a pickup let me know why you think. If it's an E350 which is what I think I should be getting which one? I have been keeping my eyes open for a 99-03 with a PSD 7.3 but don't know if I want a 15 pass extended or a shorter cargo. Are there even 12 pass diesels? Is it easier to find a cargo and put in windows? If you want to eventually do some off road exploring is the extended as much of a liability as it looks like?

I'm torn about cargo vs. passenger and the length thing. I can't see ever adding more than the one bench and I'd like the option of putting bikes in the back and keeping the one bench for the kids.

And because that was a lot of questions without any cool photos I'll include one of my bike - a KTM 950 Adventure that I've converted to 2 wheel drive. Let the bike influence your suggestions to me.

Thanks for any opinions and advice.

Gregor

 

[Jsweezy]

I would say the one nice thing about the pickup is that you dont have to worry about your bike being disgusting when you load it up. With any van your gonna think twice before you throw your bike in the back if its been out and about.

The nice thing about the vans is that once they are in the van if you dont have any windows no-one knows that they are in there. If your kids are older and don't care about having the full panoramic view out the back then i would look for a cargo and add windows as you see fit. I am currently selling a cargo that I thought would be a good fit but my son and wife dont like not being able to see all around so its got to go. And yes I could add windows or I could just get a 2wd passenger van with the interior already done and convert it later.

Just some things that hopefully help you out.

 

[pugslyyy]

We have an F-250 crew cab with the 7.3 but I just bought an E-350 6.0 standard cargo. I wanted something that I could sleep in but still haul a heavy trailer - and I didn't want a passenger van because all those windows make controlling the interior temps really tough. Better to add a window if needed than wrestle with a bunch you don't need, IMHO.

When you move up to the bigger/heavier vehicles the diesel can really make a big difference. If I am really gentle on the highway I can get 20+ mpg when not towing, or just over 18 when cruising at 70 mph on the interstate. That might not seem huge, but if you compare it to the gassers it adds up to at least an extra 5-7mpg.

 

[sakurama]

When you move up to the bigger/heavier vehicles the diesel can really make a big difference. If I am really gentle on the highway I can get 20+ mpg when not towing, or just over 18 when cruising at 70 mph on the interstate. That might not seem huge, but if you compare it to the gassers it adds up to at least an extra 5-7mpg.

My F150 gets 10-12 city, 14 highway and 6-8 towing the Avion so I can't see not getting a diesel. From what I hear a diesel will best my current highway mileage even towing. I think the question is more is it worth looking for a clean 7.3 (with typical mileage of 125,000-200,000) or a slightly less 6.0. I consider this next vehicle to be something I'd keep for at least 10-20 years probably and I'd like the chance to chip it for mpg. Does either one's reliability out weigh tune ability?

You both mention windows which is something I'd really like - I'm restoring a midcentury house so I love windows. I hadn't thought of them in terms of temperature but after having a black truck I think the van would be white or silver and windows would be tinted for sure. I'm not as worried about the windows as far as security since it's worlds better than the pickup.

Gregor

 

[shenrie]

why not find a cargo van and put a bulkhead behind the rear bench seat? that way you can have a clean half and a "pickup bed" half. we had one for sale here last summer that was setup that way and looked pretty functional. the guy used it for mobile dental/medical tool repair. the back half was setup as a work area and had no windows, front half had a nice bench seat that folded into a bed. you could put a hightop on it and use the area above the front seats as a bunk bed for one of the kids, and if you had another, you could easily build a bed out of the front seats, or use a oldschool westy style hammock stung across the two. a hightop would also make loading and unloading the rear with whatever much easier if you could stand up in it. we got our 7.3 cargo Quigley for under 20k with 147k. you live close to mg metalworks....maybe find a cheap used 2wd and have him convert it?? Ive seen those sell for as cheap as 8k. if your questioning rb vs eb, better get the eb.

 

[sakurama]

you live close to mg metalworks....maybe find a cheap used 2wd and have him convert it?? Ive seen those sell for as cheap as 8k. if your questioning rb vs eb, better get the eb.

I don't know much about them but perhaps I'll stop by and do the research. It seems the popular choice is U-joint but there is a 6.0 Quigley in town that I should at least go look at. I also seem to be leaning towards the Extended version - I guess you can lift it to gain departure angle.

Gregor

 

[shenrie]

id start by pming him on here. I suggested him due to him being so close to you. been watching people have van work done over the last few years and its always a better option to be close to whoever your giving money to just in case theres issues after the fact. if your a do it yourselfer, never hurts to spend some money with the sponsor of this section of the forum. I have a buddy that installed his own ujor kit on his van and is happy with it. fyi, ujor is also selling some of mg's products as of now. as far as lifting, ive been able to get my eb most everywhere I want to go and a lot of the time we have a 2 place motorbike holder on the back. just gotta think a bit more about the entry and exit angles. wont lie and say we don't see places we wanna go and know we cant due to the eb, but theres so many more we can get to that we never dwell on it long.

 

[ujoint]

Finding a RB wagon 7.3 will be tough. 20k for a complete rig will be even tougher unless you want sub par performance and reliability. If you can avoid the 6.0 do so, the $ you spend to make it reliable would buy a LOT of fuel for a gas van. If I were you I'd open the possibility of a V10. They're thirsty but reliable. And after 05 they have the better 5R110 transmission.

 

[SDDiver5]

I'll second the V10. Great motor. My fam put over 250k on one of them.

Have you looked into other options like a box truck or old U-haul moving van or even a shuttle bus? Tons of space to do what you want with it. It cant get you to the super remote places but thats what you have your KTM for.

Id go for extended cargo van. Reason is because of the windows like said above and I'd go with the extended because your KTM is big...assuming you'll want to keep the bike inside the van it wouldnt leave much room for living quarters.

 

[Petrolburner]

Good luck getting that KTM in a van without tall rear doors and a high top. Unless you're ok with ratchets straps compressing the forks so it will fit inside. I went with a wheelchair van so I could get the tall doors and high top. I have no problem rolling a mud covered bike inside the van, or a snow covered snowmobile.

Untitled by Trevor Stellrecht, on Flickr

I'd recommend the cargo van and pop in two windows. The passenger vans have way too many windows and they don't open. My Reflectix shades stay in most of the windows 100% of the time. I'd also highly suggest looking into a box truck for the height and the flat walls. Easy to insulate and install windows. I wouldn't go with a van body again. Once you go 4WD you'll have at least 4" of suspension lift and probably bigger tires so the rear overhang isn't much of a problem. I have stock sized tires and a mild lift and I've only drug the spare tire once crossing a gnarly washed out road in Baja. I've done thousands of miles of dirt and rocky roads in Baja and the PNW.

 

[sakurama]

Finding a RB wagon 7.3 will be tough. 20k for a complete rig will be even tougher unless you want sub par performance and reliability. If you can avoid the 6.0 do so, the $ you spend to make it reliable would buy a LOT of fuel for a gas van. If I were you I'd open the possibility of a V10. They're thirsty but reliable. And after 05 they have the better 5R110 transmission.

I have a line on a 2002 15 pass with 150k for $8000 - that leaves $12,000 to converting it to 4x4. I wrote you yesterday Chris to get a handle on the conversion process. I have a full machine shop in my garage and I'm pretty proficient with Tig but I build motorcycles, not cars or trucks so I don't have much space for the conversion. I'm pretty set on getting a 7.3 and after dealing with the thirst of my 5.4 I'm not interested in the V10 although I've heard it's very reliable. I've wanted a diesel forever - for a whole host of reasons - so it's good to know it's not likely to find the shorter pass with one.

Gregor

 

[sakurama]

Good luck getting that KTM in a van without tall rear doors and a high top. Unless you're ok with ratchets straps compressing the forks so it will fit inside.

I'd certainly be open to a high top version if I could find one. My big KTM isn't likely to see the inside of the van but I know it will fit without the wind screen as I've done it before with a friends van. I'm more thinking a dirt bike for me and then the kids bikes and bicycles. I like the idea of blocking off the rear. A friend did that with his Sprinter and then Line-X'd the entire rear compartment and put in drain holes in the floor so the bikes could be hosed off in place.

I know there's no such thing as a perfect vehicle so I'm trying to find the balance. From talking with friends and others here it seems like the extended van has more pluses than drawbacks. It's also going to be my daily driver although I'm self employed so I don't commute.

For what it's worth I'm a photographer (but I can't post any links as I've not made my 20 post threshold yet). I would be using the van a base vehicle on shoots as well as hauling the 5-8 cases of gear that often goes on location. I've tried a box truck - too noisy and large. We live in Oregon, we do plenty of hiking and camping, we have a 7000lb Airstream to tow on occasion so eventually converting to a 4x4 is a given.

I appreciate all the input - it's really helping make the decision.

Gregor

 

[sakurama]

I'll second the V10. Great motor. My fam put over 250k on one of them.

Have you looked into other options like a box truck or old U-haul moving van or even a shuttle bus? Tons of space to do what you want with it. It cant get you to the super remote places but thats what you have your KTM for.

Id go for extended cargo van. Reason is because of the windows like said above and I'd go with the extended because your KTM is big...assuming you'll want to keep the bike inside the van it wouldnt leave much room for living quarters.

I actually bought a giant bread van once upon a time - it had a 40' boom on it. I spent a year putting in a Cummins 6bt and I had plans to build it out into a mobile camper/work vehicle. That truck bled me to death and it's never gotten on the road. I theoretically still own it but it's not worth fixing or putting money into and I will most likely scrap it. It was a very hard lesson about taking on projects that you can't work on yourself.

Yes, I think that an extended passenger van would be the ticket at this point. Conversion would happen later once I decide if it's something I want to do myself or send it off to have done.

Gregor

 

[klp42]

For similar $ you could find a lightly used Transit. 4wd is an expensive retrofit but you may be able to make do with a locker. They have vans with diesels, not big burly old school but still diesel clatter lol.

There are other downsides to the Transits, they don't look quite as cool - stock tires look pathetic under there. They are very modern and ride nice though, I got a window cargo and am building out the interior as a moto hauler/kid hauler/camper.

Have fun, vans rule!

 

[bdog1]

The extended van has the same wheelbase as the regular, so the turn the same, and despite the overhand working against you for towing it leaves the front to rear weight close to 50/50 which is great if you have 4x4.


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