@Adrifters - F550 Surf Camper Build - Adrift Motorhome

[S2DM]

I'll second your truism. It seems kind of obvious when I read it but in all my thinking and research (and maybe even philosophizing) on camper design, I never fully developed the thought. I think this is a perfect philosophical starting point for those out there designing their own camper.

And if Adrift is on the smaller side of the bell curve (it seems large to me but after seeing lots of stuff at OX, I think you're right), I'm waaay out on the tail of the distribution . But your truism holds, our camper is a very small space with most of the usual features and yes, every thing and space has multiple uses and there's lots to deploy. Like you say, with age comes a desire for more comfort and ultimately it all comes down to personal preference, but for me, spending some time getting set up for the night and then being in close quarters with my loved one(s) is kind of what camping is supposed to be like.

Who you calling big? We are definitely on the big side. I tend to think of my rig as the biggest thing you can still do some reasonable offroad traveling in, but I'm guessing some would say we are too big for that as well. We manage to get through some tough stuff, but its work. Was more thinking about what you get when you go bigger yet vs what you lose.

I think there are probably a ton of people in the next size down from our rig, or even in sportsmobiles etc who'd make the same comparison between our rig and theirs, with ours having a bunch of unnecessary space or creature comforts in many peoples mind. So, it really is a continuum of preference.

I will say, I love our rig when its deployed, but it is stressful to drive up those narrow trails in mex. So, I can't really imagine trying to do Baja in something substantially bigger. The other overlanding truism I've heard from people, is nobody ever goes smaller, each progressive rig is bigger than the last, so, maybe don't listen to me

 

[IdaSHO]

FYI, every aspect of the camper and its needs was under scrutiny in the design stages.

Everyone is different, but for us a dedicated, or even convertible shower space was about the last thing we could justify.
It simply isnt needed (for us) Doing so adds a load of additional requirements.

Our water system is stupid simple, a 36 gallon tank and a whale gusher foot pump.
A shower would require a pump. Added weight, added 12V usage
It also requires (unless you like quick COLD showers ) a water heater.
We don't even have a water heater. Stupid simple, and ubber light weight.

Speaking of weight.... add a shower and all of a sudden that 36 gallon fresh tank looks SMALL.
So now you have to worry more about your water supply. Instead of going weeks between fill-ups, you are talking days.

And did I mention the SPACE a shower takes?
our camper is designed to be lived in. Every inch of space counts.

Moisture.... Second only to weight, moisture on the inside of the camper is the ultimate enemy.
Having a shower on the inside of your camper is just retarded.
We travel in our camper throughout the year, regardless of weather and temps.
During the cold months, we simply toss a couple of towels down, and sponge bath out of a pan on the stove.
During the warm months, we use a weed sprayer tank, and some water warmed on the stove, or outside BBQ

Again, stupid simple and lightweight.


But hey, its not ubber-shiny and wiz-bang, so it ain't cool

 

[DiploStrat]

..
Everyone is different, but for us a dedicated, or even convertible shower space was about the last thing we could justify.
...
But hey, its not ubber-shiny and wiz-bang, so it ain't cool

Oh but your work is very cool. (I follow all of your threads and posts - shamelessly stealing ideas)

That said, after a lifetime of "Jeep" camping in the Third World, a hot shower, and indoor plumbing, were the two reasons that we have a camper, as opposed to another Blazer/Suburban type vehicle. Our philosophic approach was exactly the opposite of yours - design the shower first and let the rest of it fall where it may.

So for us, a hot shower when it is -5F outside is the ultimate proof of concept!

 

[s.e.charles]

... every aspect of the camper and its needs was under scrutiny in the design stages. ….

edited just because

 

[S2DM]

To each their own, and thats probably the ultimate freedom of DIY, put what you want in there. We looked hard at Earthroamers and almost ordered a new earth cruiser before we started our build, but there were a bunch of things I didnt want in each, the ER just felt too luxe and big for serious bushwhacking and the EC too underpowered and we wanted a crew cab, and a bunch of features missing from both (headroom, surfboard storage, solar and battery capacity, poptop with hardsides).

That said, I side with the guys above, to quote Diplostrat, our "ultimate proof of concept" is making it out to a beach in Baja that even dedicated offroad rigs struggle to reach, then being insanely comfortable whilst there. So, an indoor shower was the thing I designed around first, not something I was struggling to find a space for. I plumbed my system for copious hot water, if I run the espar and the 115v heating element at the same time, my water heater is close to non stop output. Finishing a day of surf in the middle of nowhere, taking a hot shower and tossing on a robe for sunset with whiskey and fancy ice cubes leaves me feeling all Hugh Hefner

Seriously, in order of importance for me when designing it was

1) Big bed with enough depth to have the same mattress I have at home. So we have a queen and a half (66x80) with almost a 100lb latex mattress. Its a ton of weight, but I sleep so well when we camp and that matters to me.
2) Large, easy to use shower - Its still a shower curtain in a pan, but it works very well and you feel like you've taken a real shower
3) Huge water supply (100 gallons) - When we get to a spot and the surf is working, I don't want to have to re-supply. We can go almost two weeks with only mild caution when taking showers.
4) Huge batter array and solar (I loath generators) - same as above

Everything else was built around that, which is part of why I did the locker system, because the water was a ton of weight and I wanted it 60/40 and sitting directly on the frame as low as possible.

Our entire camper is diinycell and glass with aluminum storage underneath, so I can hose down the interior if needed and I was meticulous about cold bridges so we don't have condensation issues. I can also use the heat pump to extract water when the humidity is high..I think water inside is a wise thing to be concerned about, and if its a critical feature for you, then you just have to build with materials that can handle it. Boats of certain size are constantly in high humidity and generally have showers, so I think its more than possible to do it wisely and not affect the longevity of your rig.

 

[IdaSHO]

All depends on your approach, and what you can do without.

Like I said, ours was built specifically for us. No one size fits all when it comes to these campers, if you want to do it right.

Both the wife and I are avid backpackers, so we can quite literally, both live out of a backpack. A camper for us is like a 5-star hotel

Our camper requirements are simplistic, and no doubt more simplistic than most would be willing to put up with, and that's 100% fine.

But do understand that the simplicity by designs lends more than just lighter weight. Its considerable cheaper to build, operate, maintain and repair.

We have had it on the road since 2014 now, and the ONLY repair I have done was replace a ruptured diaphragm in the sink foot pump. That repair cost less than $20 and about an hour to service.
Beyond that, the only expenses have been propane refills and some distilled water for the deep cycles.

 

[IdaSHO]

Oh but your work is very cool. (I follow all of your threads and posts - shamelessly stealing ideas)

That said, after a lifetime of "Jeep" camping in the Third World, a hot shower, and indoor plumbing, were the two reasons that we have a camper, as opposed to another Blazer/Suburban type vehicle. Our philosophic approach was exactly the opposite of yours - design the shower first and let the rest of it fall where it may.

So for us, a hot shower when it is -5F outside is the ultimate proof of concept!

Thanks.

I certainly understand the sentiment about showers. But unless you have lived in a camper for even just a few days in such temps you would understand the moisture problems I speak of.
At those temps not only do you have to constantly encourage air-exchange, you have to worry about ice dams. Even the best, most insulated camper will have ice dam issues in those temps.
Adding additional humidity to the interior is simply adding to the problem.

Personally, I have found that there is nothing quite like an outdoor shower, or dipping in hot springs, in such temps.
Seriously.... at those temps the air is so dry that it nearly evaporated the moment it hits your skin.

 

[DiploStrat]

... But unless you have lived in a camper for even just a few days in such temps you would understand the moisture problems I speak of.
At those temps not only do you have to constantly encourage air-exchange, you have to worry about ice dams. Even the best, most insulated camper will have ice dam issues in those temps.
...
Personally, I have found that there is nothing quite like an outdoor shower, or dipping in hot springs, in such temps.
Seriously.... at those temps the air is so dry that it nearly evaporated the moment it hits your skin.

We have, but not for days, but weeks. We did not have problems with ice dams. The exhaust from the Webasto made one long icicle, but we had no ice dams or cold bridges. (OK, we had frost around the cabin door seal, but our door is a bit warped.) Had to keep the cabin heat up to about 70F to assure that the garage stayed warm enough to keep the water pump/filter from freezing. In the long run, those will have to be relocated for extended below 0F camping.

As for an outdoor shower below freezing - brrrr! I lived in the desert as a child and I can still remember freezing from the instant evaporation effect! Better thee than me!

 

[S2DM]

They love us in Germany

 

[TheBlueBus]

The video is the reason why i've now worked my way trough the entire thread! Awesome build!

 

[Darwin]

I like the carpet. What is it?

 

[S2DM]

I like the carpet. What is it?

It’s called chillewich and is a waterproof, rubber backed product. We set it up where we can just pull it out and rinse it off really easily.

 

[rossvtaylor]

It’s called chillewich and is a waterproof, rubber backed product. We set it up where we can just pull it out and rinse it off really easily.

Interesting! I looked up the Chilewich site and found lots of stuff. The woven mats would be big enough, but can you cut them to shape? Which product from their site did you use, if you don't mind me asking... they have mats, tiles, and more. Thanks!

 

[S2DM]

Interesting! I looked up the Chilewich site and found lots of stuff. The woven mats would be big enough, but can you cut them to shape? Which product from their site did you use, if you don't mind me asking... they have mats, tiles, and more. Thanks!

You can do a custom size rug, we just ordered one big piece and then cut it to fit the space. We used it in the storage areas and the underbed clothing as well. They have a number of different styles and backing thicknesses, so make sure you get one of the heavier duty versions...Their heaviest duty seems a little too heavy for camper use IMO, but the regular rug version has been great and is totally waterproof. We just pull it out and hose it off every few days.

 

[Darwin]

Do you remember if you got the "indoor/outdoor" rug or just their regular rug?