Advice From All You Medics

[jh504]

Very intense but very important. This intense training paid of after being hired by LAFD and being assigned to a rescue in South Central LA that averaged 22 calls in a 24 hour shift. No time for on the job training.

1 day a week will be very nice and allow you to really take in what you are learning.

South Central sounds very exciting. I bet there is a high burn out rate in your area. Our next door neighbor to Raleigh is a place called Durham. Raleigh is the good brother and Durham is the bad one. Durham has a very high gang incident rate. Medics are issued kevlar and shootings are the daily occurance. I have thought about getting on Durham EMS for a little while just for the Trauma experience. Not sure how the PTSD would effect me though. I get more upset now about things than I did before the wreck.

 

[kellymoe]

South Central sounds very exciting. I bet there is a high burn out rate in your area. Our next door neighbor to Raleigh is a place called Durham. Raleigh is the good brother and Durham is the bad one. Durham has a very high gang incident rate. Medics are issued kevlar and shootings are the daily occurance. I have thought about getting on Durham EMS for a little while just for the Trauma experience. Not sure how the PTSD would effect me though. I get more upset now about things than I did before the wreck.

Burnout time when I got on the job was 7 years average. I worked in South Central during the peak of the Bloods Crips rival. My rescue averaged about 2-3 shootings a shift with some happening right in front of us while on other calls. I also went through the LA Riots after the Rodney King verdict, the engineer at my station was shot in the neck that resulted in permanent paralysis. I didnt start experiencing PTSD until 2 years ago when I started having dreams about calls I went on 15 years ago. It is strange how it just kind of snuck up on me, I never considered myself as someone who was affected much by stressful situations but back in the early years there was no stress debriefing efforts like there are now. I am doing tons better now and work at a slower station in East Los Angeles as a single function FF which cut down on the stress a lot.

I love my career and encourage anyone who has the personality and fitness level to go after it.

 

[jeepmedic46]

You make 50,000 a year? Thats more then I make.:REOutIceFishing:

 

[4Rescue]

I hate to sound negative... But as some have said, unless you're a paid FF and the Dept. is willing to pick up the bill for school, you're not looking at too bright a future as simply a transport medic. Honestly if you're strictly in it for the medical intrest and money... Go to Nursing school.

If you're going down this road as an easier egress into the Fire Dept. Check with the specific deopt. For a long time some of our local dept's were not hirinf EMT-P's in favor of B's so they could train them in house for less money.

I make more as an ER Tech/EMT-I than I would as a 6 year Ambulance Medic. Add to that the fact that I've learned EVERYTHING you learn in Medic school here in the ER for free and I'm heading off to Nursing school myself. The money is ALOT better in nursing and you can do things like Lift-Flight.

Plus to be honest... I hated working in the bus (ambu), that's why I went down the Fire Fighter Road (I'm still on the road) and will now be persuing Nursing.

Good luck with whatever you choose

Cheers

Dave

 

[jh504]

I hate to sound negative... But as some have said, unless you're a paid FF and the Dept. is willing to pick up the bill for school, you're not looking at too bright a future as simply a transport medic. Honestly if you're strictly in it for the medical intrest and money... Go to Nursing school.

If you're going down this road as an easier egress into the Fire Dept. Check with the specific deopt. For a long time some of our local dept's were not hirinf EMT-P's in favor of B's so they could train them in house for less money.

I make more as an ER Tech/EMT-I than I would as a 6 year Ambulance Medic. Add to that the fact that I've learned EVERYTHING you learn in Medic school here in the ER for free and I'm heading off to Nursing school myself. The money is ALOT better in nursing and you can do things like Lift-Flight.

Plus to be honest... I hated working in the bus (ambu), that's why I went down the Fire Fighter Road (I'm still on the road) and will now be persuing Nursing.

Good luck with whatever you choose

Cheers

Dave

Yeah, like I said before, not planning on being on a bus for long. I love rescue, whether it be car accidents or USAR. Tactical Medic is also an option here. I really enjoy the medical side of things too though, unlike a lot of FFs around here, which is why I am pursueing paramedic. There are several departments around here who have progressed to a FIRE/EMS system similar to FDNY. They offer good incitives for medics. I dont know how things are in other parts of the US but here medics are needed everywhere. Getting your cert is like walking through a door of possibilities.

 

[kellymoe]

You bet having your cert helps. I dont understand why some keep telling you not to go down that road? Being a medic in California is half the battle in getting a job with a fire dept. It's all relative to where you live but FF/PM's on the west coast easily clear $100k a year and that is working maybe a shift or two of overtime a month. But remember the cost of living is much higher in Los Angeles. I tell anyone who wants to be a FF that if you have your PM cert it just makes you that more desirable.

If this is your thing then go for it, 20 days off a month sure gives you a ton of time for other adventures.

 

[astn]

You bet having your cert helps. I dont understand why some keep telling you not to go down that road? Being a medic in California is half the battle in getting a job with a fire dept. It's all relative to where you live but FF/PM's on the west coast easily clear $100k a year and that is working maybe a shift or two of overtime a month. But remember the cost of living is much higher in Los Angeles. I tell anyone who wants to be a FF that if you have your PM cert it just makes you that more desirable.

I am not one of the Fire/'Medic hating paramedics (I was one myself), nor am I specifically attacking you for the comments, as I acknowledge the truth that you're saying, but ...

Comments like this are the death of the paramedic, and one of the major reasons why the paramedic "career" has never developed as it should have. People who are getting their 'medic for the express purpose of being a firefighter do a disservice both to the fire service and EMS. Every time I run around a "firefighter/paramedic" that can't perform basic skills like a thorough assessment, remember the dosages of basic and commonly used drugs, but goes through the motions every two years or so to make sure they keep getting that paramedic uplift, it is hard not to take it personally.

Individually, I force myself to remember that it is fire administration, not the individual, who is REALLY at fault for that situation, and that the individual people are just "playing the game," and trying to do the best they can within the system they have, but you could say the same about some people on welfare as well.

Yeah, like I said before, not planning on being on a bus for long. I love rescue, whether it be car accidents or USAR. Tactical Medic is also an option here. I really enjoy the medical side of things too though, unlike a lot of FFs around here, which is why I am pursueing paramedic. There are several departments around here who have progressed to a FIRE/EMS system similar to FDNY. They offer good incitives for medics. I dont know how things are in other parts of the US but here medics are needed everywhere. Getting your cert is like walking through a door of possibilities.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I find statements like that to be frustrating. If you just want to be a firefighter, go be a firefighter. There are still plenty of opportunities in the Carolinas for one to be a firefighter without being a paramedic. Advanced details like working with a tactical team are based on a solid foundation as a paramedic, which is learned "on a bus," and there are many positions doing the type of rescue that it sounds like you are interested in that do not require being a paramedic.

I particularly want to say in advance, addressing kellymoe, that I am not attacking your skills, experience, or position, but using your posting as an example of the issues I have with the concept of using a paramedic certificate as a 'ticket-punch' to get a job with the fire service. I have spent a significant amount of time arguing why fire department-based EMS is a GOOD idea, but all too often I run across the fire/medic who exemplifies everything BAD about that system, and it is those examples that are not only hurt my argument, but in my opinion are slowly eroding role and respect of a paramedic.

Austin

 

[kellymoe]

The difference between a good PM and a bad PM is purely up to the individual and the pride they take in their job. I have seen and continue to see FF/PM's who became a PM just for the pay increase and most are lousy paramedics.
However, jh504 seems pretty passionate about being a paramedic and being a good one. Those are the kinds of people I encourage to go out and become a PM.

On the West coast it is almost impossible to make a career out of being just a paramedic. If you want only to be a medic you have to work for a private ambulance company and the pay is poor at best. Most of these medics almost have to become firemen if they want to make a career out of being a medic. On my department you can ride the rescue your entire career if you want and never step foot on a truck or engine, but that just makes you a danger to yourself and others if you are called on to act at a fire. As a result FF/PM's end up working a few years on a rescue and a few years on a engine just to keep their skills up in both areas.

Myself? I couldn't imagine just being a medic, I love the diversity that the combination brings.

 

[astn]

Myself? I couldn't imagine just being a medic, I love the diversity that the combination brings.

I've worked in both environments, and they have their pluses and minuses. However, having walked both sides of the street, I personally feel that single-role paramedics are USUALLY the better paramedic (education, experience, and skill-wise.) I've also seen people excel as Paramedics who I know would never have passed a fire academy, and all those people are thrown away. There are many excellent FD providers, but you have to look a lot harder for them especially depending on the region and organization.

On the other hand, I often made the argument that a fire department provided the better SERVICE to the community, because it allows a better utilization of resources. However, in the last five years I've also been to more then a few places where I would never let a paramedic touch me (without exaggeration) and every one of those has been a fire department run EMS system.

In my opinion, being a "good paramedic" is based on more then just desire, it's based on the number of hours you have with your butt in the back of an ambulance and the acuity of the person with you. Everything else has it's part, but without the experience, it's hard to be "good."

Austin

 

[jh504]

I am not one of the Fire/'Medic hating paramedics (I was one myself), nor am I specifically attacking you for the comments, as I acknowledge the truth that you're saying, but ...

Comments like this are the death of the paramedic, and one of the major reasons why the paramedic "career" has never developed as it should have. People who are getting their 'medic for the express purpose of being a firefighter do a disservice both to the fire service and EMS. Every time I run around a "firefighter/paramedic" that can't perform basic skills like a thorough assessment, remember the dosages of basic and commonly used drugs, but goes through the motions every two years or so to make sure they keep getting that paramedic uplift, it is hard not to take it personally.

Individually, I force myself to remember that it is fire administration, not the individual, who is REALLY at fault for that situation, and that the individual people are just "playing the game," and trying to do the best they can within the system they have, but you could say the same about some people on welfare as well.


I'm not trying to be rude, but I find statements like that to be frustrating. If you just want to be a firefighter, go be a firefighter. There are still plenty of opportunities in the Carolinas for one to be a firefighter without being a paramedic. Advanced details like working with a tactical team are based on a solid foundation as a paramedic, which is learned "on a bus," and there are many positions doing the type of rescue that it sounds like you are interested in that do not require being a paramedic.

I particularly want to say in advance, addressing kellymoe, that I am not attacking your skills, experience, or position, but using your posting as an example of the issues I have with the concept of using a paramedic certificate as a 'ticket-punch' to get a job with the fire service. I have spent a significant amount of time arguing why fire department-based EMS is a GOOD idea, but all too often I run across the fire/medic who exemplifies everything BAD about that system, and it is those examples that are not only hurt my argument, but in my opinion are slowly eroding role and respect of a paramedic.

Austin

I understand where you are coming from and please dont read me the wrong way. I could very easily be just a firefighter, and when I started that is exactly what I wanted. I had NO interest in EMS or really even rescue. I wanted to get dirty and fight fires. However when I started running calls I realized that I enjoyed the medical and rescue calls more than I did the fire. After I finished EMT Basic I was hooked. I have never actually worked for a fire department, just volunteered. But I have been working on an ambulance since the week I got my basic. The medical side of things is where it is at for me. The only problem is that around here strictly EMS medics are not allowed to do ANYTHING other than work on a patient. Unless they are a member of a USAR or Tactical team with EMS which takes years to accomplish. That is why I want to work somewhere that will allow me to get my hands dirty and help, not stand on the sidelines and watch the firefighters do all the work. There are some combination Rescue/EMS squades around here as well, and thats a possibility too. But my priority is paramedic not fire.

 

[OneTime]

I'll let you know soonenough

I just briefly read through the thread. Been up for almost twenty hours so hope this makes sense. I start medic school in two weeks. Been out of EMS for over 14 years. I was an EMT-B in LA County for two years 92-94. Kelly will tell you EMT-B in LA county are just gurney pushers. Medics are everywhere. I became a Deputy Sheriff in 94 with the dream of being a SAR medic. I let me orginal cert lapse when I went through the academy in 94. I recerted in 2000 but never used it officailly.

Two years ago I moved to Arizona. Here they have a part time medic school. So set off on fullfilling my dream. Re-certed my EMT-B (National Cert this time). I took a year to get ready for Medic school. Mostly to find a position other than patrol in the bussiest part of Phoenix. And to build my vacation hours.

I took a EKG course and Pharmacolgy course to prepare. I wanted to take a Anatomy and Physiology this last semester but decided to take a brake from school and spend time with family before I have no life in medic school.

I picked up all my books last week and hit my AP books hard to prepare. I can already tell you I am kicking myself for not taking the A&P course!!!! Bio 160 (A&P) is included in the coarse. But we get what the regular student gets in a semester in the first 6 (8hr) days. If that tells you anything about the pace of the coarse.

Normally the medics schools out west require at least one year of EMT-B experience. I know in past classes there have been a few students that had no field time as a EMT-B and went straight to medic school. They were from small FD's and there depts needed medics bad.

This year in my classs that starts this month there are two or three students that just got out of EMT-B this last semester and are going right into medic school. HOW THEY ARE GOING TO DO THAT, I HAVE NO CLUE!!!! One of the reason they were allowed in was $$$$. The local depts here are either, 1
fat with medics or 2 cutting budgets and not sending guys to school. My program needed to fill the class and made a few exceptions. One of the girls had done all her pre nursing reqs and did the first semester in nursing and quit. I bet she'll do OK based on all the nursing pre reqs she took.

I have heard that medics are just REALLY GOOD EMT's. I guess the answer to your question if you should go straight to medic school depends on how good of EMT you are. If you know your stuff you should be ok. I am way glad I took the EKG class. I can't imagine having to learn it for the first time at the pace will me doing in medic school.

Learning drugs scares me to death!! Drug profiles and A&P are going to be my problem. I'll keep you posted and let you know how its going.

Last thing. I know here in AZ there are programs that let Medics convert to RN in a year. By passing the pre reqs and first year of RN school. I know a few people who are going that route to get thier RN quicker. I'd do the RN thing if I wasn't already a cop.

And as far as the FF/PM vs EMS PM If I was in LA and was bleeding in the street with a GSW. The two things I want to see is a F250 Squad or a Ford Econoline with two guys in funny blue jumpsuits (Ol' School LAFD) Kelly will get it

 

[kellymoe]

And as far as the FF/PM vs EMS PM If I was in LA and was bleeding in the street with a GSW. The two things I want to see is a F250 Squad or a Ford Econoline with two guys in funny blue jumpsuits (Ol' School LAFD) Kelly will get it

Still have that jumpsuit sitting in my closet and still remember the shop number to my first Econoline Rescue
11392 Those were some crazy times in South Central. I spent much of it at station 46 on the corner of Hoover and Vernon.

Good luck in school, you have your head together and priorities in line, family first:iagree: Hang in there.

 

[astn]

This year in my classs that starts this month there are two or three students that just got out of EMT-B this last semester and are going right into medic school. HOW THEY ARE GOING TO DO THAT, I HAVE NO CLUE!!!! One of the reason they were allowed in was $$$$. The local depts here are either, 1 fat with medics or 2 cutting budgets and not sending guys to school. My program needed to fill the class and made a few exceptions. One of the girls had done all her pre nursing reqs and did the first semester in nursing and quit. I bet she'll do OK based on all the nursing pre reqs she took.

Zero-to-hero Paramedic courses happen all the time all over the country. It's hit or miss as to whether those new paramedics are any good. At the organization I used to teach for, most of those people would wash out (but still be on the hook for the full cost of the program. Sadly, you're right that it is more about money then anything.) We were still in an area that there was enough opportunity to work or volunteer as an EMT and get good experience that way, so we didn't coddle people through basic BLS skills. In some portions of the country, you can't get "good time" as an EMT, so you have to work with what you have available.

If I were placing bets, I would bet that nursing girl would wash out. I don't really have enough information to make much in the way other then a gut reaction, but I would guess that the factors that caused her to drop nursing school will probably end up causing the same result in 'medic school. If anything, the early parts of instruction in 'medic class are much more stressful then in nursing, in my opinion.

I have heard that medics are just REALLY GOOD EMT's. I guess the answer to your question if you should go straight to medic school depends on how good of EMT you are. If you know your stuff you should be ok. I am way glad I took the EKG class. I can't imagine having to learn it for the first time at the pace will me doing in medic school.

You can't be a good paramedic without having first been a good EMT. That's true universally even for the people who never worked a day as an EMT in their life--they just have to learn to be both a good EMT and good 'medic at the same time. The foundation of ALS is solid BLS.

Last thing. I know here in AZ there are programs that let Medics convert to RN in a year. By passing the pre reqs and first year of RN school. I know a few people who are going that route to get thier RN quicker. I'd do the RN thing if I wasn't already a cop.

I have just finished the didactic for Excelsior College's paramedic to RN bridge, waiting on the CPNE (practical test) so I can graduate the program and take the NCLEX. Excelsior is a BIG MISTAKE for nursing, but all you people on the left coast already know that. I started it while I was overseas a couple years ago (and didn't have another option) and got to the point where I had enough money in it that not finishing was stupid. If anyone is looking at bridging to nursing, their program is NOT the way to do it unless you're in a state that will accept it AND you're sure you'll never move.

With regard to 'medic school, just bust your MMM and you'll be fine. If you haven't been in school in a while, it may be hard to get in gear, but noone should really have that much difficulty in making the national standard. As I said before though, you should really strive to exceed the baseline as much as you can.

Austin

 

[jh504]

Started the class today. I guess I have to be ready now, there is no looking back.

 

[OneTime]

JH504. Lets keep this thread alive while we are in class or start a new one. Sure wont be doing and real expoing till next year. Im hoping this is not all for not. The state of AZ in a fews weeks from bankruptcy. Hope they dont cut out the Air Rescue program. Oh well I have a good job now and you cant go wrong with getting more education. I'l lkeep you guys posted on how the guys with no prior experience do. There are also a few FF/EMT with over 14 years experience and one with 22 years. GOOD LUCK JH!!

Kelly I just took notice of your avatar. (Got to get one of those someday.) I miss leaving in Valencia, jumping on the 14 to 395 and being in Toulume Meadows in 6 hrs. Always wanted to work for Mono County.