Am I crazy for wanting a rig that gets low 20's mpg ???

[Frank]

I would be very skeptical of any manufacturers MPG numbers. I presume they are probably achieved by testing an unladen vehicle using the smallest, lightest tires they can legally use. Slap a set of decent AT tires on there and you'll probably see a pretty noticeable decrease.

Ironically, I do a lot of testing and work with tires for a living. MPG'S are calculated on a rolling average over a small course and vehicles are tested in factory form and at full tread depth. Otherwise, yes, manufactures would skew them pretty bad. For the most part, I find most factory MPG's are either on par or actually under rated, when compared to whats recorded on sites like fuelly.

And of course, once loaded down, ARB bumper and roof rack installed, aggressive all terrain tires added, MPG's go down. Bust just as you stated, Or to put it into expo terms "How do you get 20 MPG out of an ExPo vehicle? Start with one that gets 30mpg." I think one could net close to 20-25 with offerings available today, within reason.

 

[calicamper]

I would be very skeptical of any manufacturers MPG numbers. I presume they are probably achieved by testing an unladen vehicle using the smallest, lightest tires they can legally use. Slap a set of decent AT tires on there and you'll probably see a pretty noticeable decrease.
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The quest for decent MPG in an Expo type vehicle reminds me of the old riddle: "Q: How do you make a small fortune in real estate? A: Start with a big one." Or to put it into expo terms "How do you get 20 MPG out of an ExPo vehicle? Start with one that gets 30mpg."

Agreed except I think a Ram 1500 sees a smaller mileage hit to its top end road tripping mileage when loaded with gear vs say my 2.5L Subaru which has returned 32mpg trips in a clean format no roof rack gear or trailer and as low as 16mpg towing my 1800lb boat or 23-26mpg with a roof rack or 22mpg averages towing my 4x6 900lb trailer. I think the larger profile trucks which can post mid to high 20's can still hit 20+mpg only seeing say 2-3mpg hits on the average when packed full of gear in most cases.

I find this thread really interesting because I think its become more and more important to enough consumers to have trucks that post high enough real world mileage in the 20's. The few Eco boost owner friends I know all have the same laughing response about seeing 20+mpg. The Eco boost mileage thing from all that I have heard from friends and other owners is a myth unless your 80yr old father is driving with an egg placed under the go pedal. Anytime you generate high HP numbers with smaller engines and boosted systems your just ramming more fuel into smaller cylinders there is only so much power you can get out of gasoline and we have hit about the max output efficiency we can get unless they move to a new fuel with higher energy density.

 

[surlydiesel]

Having been able to squeeze 21mpg out of my 96 F250 Crew Cab Short Bed 4X4 with 32 inch all terrain tires. I had to be going 64mph on the highway downhill or level. I averaged 18 with that truck but I don't see the new trucks with the tiny motors getting good mpg with 4X4 and meaty tires. Nevermind adding bumpers, tools, winches, ect. My current DD is an 01 Tacoma 4 cylinder that gets 21mpg on average. That is on all back roads, 90 miles a day, 32 inch E rated AT's, Tall Contractor cap, helper springs and a bed half full of tools. I'm pretty sure if I went back to stock setup, I would easily see 24mpg with it. So, loosing 3mpg is about right when you get done building up a competent, well rounded work/play truck. I'm stuck in a mini truck for the fuel savings. I'd rather be driving an F150 or bigger but the fuel cost and new truck costs and such don't add up.

It's a full sized truck. You're going to get crappy millage ha ha ha. If you want 20+ you're in a "midsize" or smaller. Once you hook up a trailer, add a lift, get bigger/heavier tires, roof racks, bumpers and such Millage is out the window. You pay for usability in the form of gas millage decreases. In my case, I need the minor mods I've done to my truck to get the jobs I do done without fail. If I were strictly commuting, I'd get a Yaris. If I wasn't commuting 90+ miles a day, I'd get whatever size truck I wanted and not worry about the gas. It's a truck.

-jorge

 

[smlobx]

Great conversation about something that I hold near and dear.

I agree with Frank in that in the real world the EcoDiesel is very hard to beat. I have a '14 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel and in the 18K miles I have put on it it has AVERAGED 27.8 mpg. On the highway I can see 31... On the other hand I have friends with the Ecoboost Fords who aren't seeing anyway near the rated MPG...

To the OP who lives in CA you will need to decide if you want an SUV or a pick up first. My suggestion given your space limitations would be for a GC ED with the quadratic II air suspension.

 

[Jason911]

I chimed in way back about the EcoDiesel - just turned 33000 miles on my '14 Limited 4x4 - have yet to have any problems! Last tank of fuel netted me a bladder busting 746 miles accord to the EVIC, 31.9 with hand calculations. Milwaukee, WI to Ashland WI and back - one tank, with some left over.

 

[greengreer]

Never got below 20mpg hwy with the truck in my sig, averaged 15-17 around town. Dependent on the time of year (winter=more 4x4 and idling). I live in thw mountains.of nc and nothing gets good mpg.

 

[Vandy]

Just tossing it out there. Not sure on the price range.
Nissan is releasing a 5L cummins titan. Rumor is toyota is doing the Same with the tundra.

Also on ebay, I've been watching quite a few toyota diesel FJ'S, land cruisers and the occasional hilux surfs. Anyone of them would be pretty awesome with decent mpgs

 

[Dalko43]

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As I said in another thread, I'd guess that mid sized BOF trucks will disappear along with mid-sized BOF SUVs.
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I just don't see that happening anytime soon.

4runner and Jeep sales are still doing extremely well. People still want BOF mid-sized trucks/SUV's...whether or not they need them is a different story.

A combination of lighweight materials/frames/body, more fuel efficient gas engines, much more fuel efficient diesels, and hybrid drivelines (electric motors) means that fuel economy is only going up for all vehicles, including BOF SUV's.

My stock 4runner easily gets 24-25mpg highway (cruising 70 mpg, eco mode on). I realize that 24 mpg is nothing compared to the highway mpg that some crossovers get. But if you put that in perspective, BOF SUV's 10 years ago were lucky if they could get 16-18mpg on the highway.

BOF still have significant market demand in many areas of the US, and many companies see the importance of building them for PR/marketing/imaging reasons.

The 5th gen Toyota 4runner probably provides more off-road capability than most owners will ever need or use....but the fact that Toyota still makes a rugged vehicle like that does create a strong brand image and helps draw in customers.

Nissan, by comparison, nerfed the pathfinder into a road-based crossover, discontinued the Xterra...outside of a small selection of pickup trucks, they really don't have the same rugged/capable image that they used to have.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Let me be even bolder and say that it won't be long before even the venerable Jeep is a unibody design with 4 wheel independent suspension.
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And before you say "Blasphemy! Unibody design? Independent Suspension? Single-speed transfer case? That's not a Jeep!" I would counter with this:
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M151_Truck,_Utility,_l/4-Ton,_4%C3%974

Whoa, hold your horses there. I'll agree that Jeep has made some unibody designs, and they are great and serve their purpose. I even own an older unibody XJ. But the big thing that makes Jeeps the off the shelf off roader that they are is the solid axle design. Yes, the ride is horrible, but you just can't get the articulation and the ability to keep all the tires on the ground with any of the off the shelf independent designs. That said, if you don't do any crazy offroading, independent suspensions will work great for the 90% of the population looking to get off the pavement. Both suspensions are great, and they have their place in different scenarios. Just please don't compare the two! :smiley_drive:

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Oh, and I have a 1986 Chevy with a 6.5L diesel and i can get low 20's mpg on the highway with the overdrive. My opinion is that if your gonna haul around much more weight that the vehicle itself, go look into some good diesel power. Diesel is very efficient, just that the petroleum companies don't what you to know!

 

[RoyJ]

Also on ebay, I've been watching quite a few toyota diesel FJ'S, land cruisers and the occasional hilux surfs. Anyone of them would be pretty awesome with decent mpgs

My concern with JDM diesels is the lack of parts in remote towns when overlanding, especially if the model itself is not made here (Delica, Patrol, etc) Ironically, this is the reason they ARE chosen for international expeditions, because it's easier to get parts for them than UDM vehicles.

I picture myself stranded somewhere in norther BC or Yukon, in a remote logging / mining town. If I'm in my Ford, I can go to any parts store, or even the fleet services of a local mill, and buy parts. Not so for a diesel LC.

Same for bigger rigs. My old bus running a 6V71, Spicer transmission and Spicer axle, can still obtain powertrain parts in most towns with heavy equipment dealers. If I had a one off Scania camper, I'd be stuck waiting for parts from Europe...

 

[Binksman]

My concern with JDM diesels is the lack of parts in remote towns when overlanding, especially if the model itself is not made here (Delica, Patrol, etc) Ironically, this is the reason they ARE chosen for international expeditions, because it's easier to get parts for them than UDM vehicles.

I picture myself stranded somewhere in norther BC or Yukon, in a remote logging / mining town. If I'm in my Ford, I can go to any parts store, or even the fleet services of a local mill, and buy parts. Not so for a diesel LC.

Same for bigger rigs. My old bus running a 6V71, Spicer transmission and Spicer axle, can still obtain powertrain parts in most towns with heavy equipment dealers. If I had a one off Scania camper, I'd be stuck waiting for parts from Europe...

I am having a hard time pushing this argument anymore considering the difficulty I've had the last few years ordering parts for what are considered my fairly common vehicles. It is a rarity when I can just walk into any of my local parts stores here in central PA and they don't have to order a part from a warehouse 3 days away.

 

[RoyJ]

I am having a hard time pushing this argument anymore considering the difficulty I've had the last few years ordering parts for what are considered my fairly common vehicles. It is a rarity when I can just walk into any of my local parts stores here in central PA and they don't have to order a part from a warehouse 3 days away.

Depends on the part of course; no parts store is going to regular stock a transmission solenoid pack for the 6R80 off an F150, but they're much, much less likely to store one for a Delica.

3 days I would accept out in the boonies, as my food supply and batteries are likely to last that long. Having to wait for 2 weeks to order a part from Japan or even south of the border would mean having to abandon camp.

 

[Paleomechanic]

running a K 10 Suburban, 1983 with a tight 6.2 in front of a 700r4, I run low '20s all the time. its not a powerhouse, but it does not have to be. I have a few outside add-ons, didnt seem to change much. ive charted every fill up for two years now to get a true burn vs KM calculation, and i find its related to my right foot.

i average 23mpg, not towing, and 21 mpg towing my bike / canoe trailer. big yes, but i can sleep comfortably in it, and haul my family with ease on those big '80's bench seats (is it just me, or are car seats for kids getting HUGE!!!)