An LR3 on the Rubicon
- Thread starter zelatore
- Start date
As for gears, I'd like to re-gear now with the 33s but I don't know anybody selling gearsets for these diffs and all the stock options from LR4, RRS, gas/diesel are all going the wrong way; they're taller, not shorter.
I also agree that you'd need to do a LOT of work to get 35s on it, at which point I start to ask 'why?'. You'd have to really be in love with the LR3 platform to put that sort of time, effort, and money into custom work that would have minimal market value.
Of course it you do it, please let us know.
nwoods
Expedition Leader
Way to go Don. I had wanted to be the first, but financially I knew it wasn't going to happen. What's interesting about your report is that you didn't have any computer related issues, so take That you Haters out there! Ha!
LOL. I've done the trail in my Jeep, so I well know the obstacles you described. Fatigue is definitely a factor in making it through unscathed. So are you going to put the Trail Rated stamp on it? Jeep only applies that stamp to rigs that have done the Rubicon
LOL. I've done the trail in my Jeep, so I well know the obstacles you described. Fatigue is definitely a factor in making it through unscathed. So are you going to put the Trail Rated stamp on it? Jeep only applies that stamp to rigs that have done the Rubicon
spikemd
Explorer
Nice work Don. Still waiting to do it in my P38 on 33s.
We met a guy on 33s on springs in an LR3 with some impressive lift. He had spacers and his cv joints were are at pretty extreme angles. He only uses his LR3 for fun as I don't think it could handle being a DD and tons of miles on that lift.
We met a guy on 33s on springs in an LR3 with some impressive lift. He had spacers and his cv joints were are at pretty extreme angles. He only uses his LR3 for fun as I don't think it could handle being a DD and tons of miles on that lift.
Way to go Don. I had wanted to be the first, but financially I knew it wasn't going to happen. What's interesting about your report is that you didn't have any computer related issues, so take That you Haters out there! Ha!
LOL. I've done the trail in my Jeep, so I well know the obstacles you described. Fatigue is definitely a factor in making it through unscathed. So are you going to put the Trail Rated stamp on it? Jeep only applies that stamp to rigs that have done the Rubicon
HA! I should totally order one of those for it!
Yeah, I've met him at Nick's place and we did some snow wheeling together over the winter - can't think of his name off the top of my head. He's thinking of doing at least part of the Rubicon this year, but he doesn't have any armor. That helps give him a bit more clearance but he's already banged up the rockers and bumpers as is, so he'll take more damage if he runs it.
Ray_G
Explorer
I used to have a great 'Mall Rated' sticker on my D1. May need to figure out where I sourced them!
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NCLRbear
Adventurer
Way to go Don. I had wanted to be the first, but financially I knew it wasn't going to happen. What's interesting about your report is that you didn't have any computer related issues, so take That you Haters out there! Ha!
LOL.
Haha I love this. Don this is awesome! Great write up too. Thanks for the inspiration and great pictures. I'm shocked too because you never take pictures. haha
ReformedRover
New member
Great write up and nice pics. I have moderately modified LR3 and routinely go where the Defenders and Discos go with no real trouble. I use the Johnson Rods and Nitto Terra Grappler, although I am going to go to trail grapplers next tire change. I used Voyager Offroad for my sliders, and I love them.
The single biggest limitation of the LR3 in this sort of stuff is break-over angle. It's pretty miserable. Even with Johnon Rods in Off-Road height I have about the same clearnce at the rockers as my RRC with 1" lift on 29" tires.
People always talk about how the LR3 has more clearance because they are measuring to the lowest points on the solid axle rigs - ie the diffs. They are right, and the low hanging diffs can cause problems but it's much easier to dodge a particular rock with a diff than to simply high-center the LR3 constantly on it's armor since it's pretty much flat over the entire bottom.
I like my LR3 and plan to keep it, but it's just never going to be the wheeling rig the earlier solid-axle stuff can be when it comes to serious terrain. The solution of course is to have one of each.
People always talk about how the LR3 has more clearance because they are measuring to the lowest points on the solid axle rigs - ie the diffs. They are right, and the low hanging diffs can cause problems but it's much easier to dodge a particular rock with a diff than to simply high-center the LR3 constantly on it's armor since it's pretty much flat over the entire bottom.
I like my LR3 and plan to keep it, but it's just never going to be the wheeling rig the earlier solid-axle stuff can be when it comes to serious terrain. The solution of course is to have one of each.
Here's all the photos I've got: https://goo.gl/photos/jWHxnecygy65o4ZV8
I can't embed them here since Google Photos doesn't support it - sorry.
I can't embed them here since Google Photos doesn't support it - sorry.
Don,
So... I run those bushings as well and your experience has me concerned. I have looked at my upper control arms and do not see any cracking yet. The bushing have been on for over two years now. How long have your's been on? In your original failure post I recalled that it was implied that you had "abused" the truck. Now with the opposite side failure, it seems that there is a increased load, resulting in fatigue of the heat effected zone in the weld.
I run about as heavy as you, maybe a bit less. I run big heavy 285/65-18 Trail Grapplers, I think the only difference is that I have modified my bump stops to prevent upward travel of the suspension. If it is a binding issue in the geometry of the articulation perhaps I am not seeing the extra forces on that joint that you have with my limited upward articulation.
Can you provide any insight into what you think is going on here other than my previous take away that you run your LR3 hard?
Jeremy
So... I run those bushings as well and your experience has me concerned. I have looked at my upper control arms and do not see any cracking yet. The bushing have been on for over two years now. How long have your's been on? In your original failure post I recalled that it was implied that you had "abused" the truck. Now with the opposite side failure, it seems that there is a increased load, resulting in fatigue of the heat effected zone in the weld.
I run about as heavy as you, maybe a bit less. I run big heavy 285/65-18 Trail Grapplers, I think the only difference is that I have modified my bump stops to prevent upward travel of the suspension. If it is a binding issue in the geometry of the articulation perhaps I am not seeing the extra forces on that joint that you have with my limited upward articulation.
Can you provide any insight into what you think is going on here other than my previous take away that you run your LR3 hard?
Jeremy
I do not have empirical evidence to say exactly what happened, just a gut feeling and assumptions. Admit it or not, that's what most things come down to with mods and results.
Mine were approximately 2 years old; I forget exactly when I installed them. I have had no specific problems with the fronts, only problems at the rear. About a year ago I cracked the driver's rear upper forward at the eye while in Sedona. I believe it actually started cracking while on the Back Way to Crown King taking more difficult lines since I was traveling with other rigs and could take more chances, then it failed completely on a washboard gravel road the next morning. When that occurred I chalked it up to random luck; I had never heard of anybody having this particular failure, but then again I've broken plenty of things on this truck that most people don't, such as the front strut I snapped only a couple months prior to that.
At that time I was running 275/65-18 Goodyear Duratracs. A bit larger than the 265s most people run but not much of a difference. I run full time with Johnson Rods, and the truck sees highway use generally only to get to/from trails. It's a trail rig, not a daily driver. Extra weight wise, I have Tactical Rovers sliders, gas tank skid, and transfer case skid; a custom built rear steel bumper w/dual swing outs; ARB front bumper w/winch; Urban Offroad low-profile rack; and carry a full time load of spares and recovery gear that probably weighs around 100 lbs not including the hi-lift on the front bumper. Add to that the camping gear, water, food, fridge, and 2 people for a typical trip.
I have noticed that the truck rides a bit harsher on washboard or other sharp/harsh roads. This seems to be a direct result of the firmer bushings.
So, after that first failure I simply replaced it with what I could get my hands on while on the road which was a stock LR3 arm w/bushings. It's still in there. I kept my broken part thinking I'd switch out the poly bushings (orange, from AB FWIW) when I got around to it but….well…it just hasn't been a priority.
Last winter I switched from the Duratracs to Cooper STT Pros in 275/70-18. A little bigger at just over 33” and a little heavier (I don't recall the weight difference). Otherwise the truck is still the same.
Then about a month ago while on the Rubicon trip I had the passenger side upper forward control arm fail in exactly the same way as the driver's had previously. This seemed too much to be a coincidence. Looking at the failure in detail you can see the welds did not fail but the eye snapped off just outside the weld. Again, more supposition, but it appears that the heat from welding the eye on left the metal weaker. I also notice that the rear eye has a gusset while the forward does not.
I joke a bit about how I abuse the truck. But that's not to say I'm a lead foot who makes banzai runs at crazy obstacles; I'm not a Pin it to Win it type. I'm actually a pretty cautious driver who really does embrace the ‘slow as I can, fast as I must' ethos. I'm just willing (eager even) to push my LR3 over obstacles that most owners won't try. So while I say I abuse the truck, it's more a matter of tackling more challenges than most than crazy driving.
So why did I have identical failures on each side of the truck? The major factor I can come up with is the stiffer bushings can be felt to provide a harsher ride so it's fair to assume they also transmit more vibration and energy into the arm which results in the weakest point failing. I can't show definitive proof of this, only my best speculation and guess. I don't plan to go back to poly bushings for the parts I've broken (currently stock on the driver's upper, poly on the driver's lower, and RRS upper and lower on the passenger's side, so quite a mix for the time being). In the front I'll leave the poly in place but when they are ready to be replaced my current thinking is to go back to rubber. Not for durability but for a slightly softer ride on washboard roads.
That's about as exhaustive as I can be…not sure if it's any help but I thought I'd go ahead and lay it all out in one place.
Mine were approximately 2 years old; I forget exactly when I installed them. I have had no specific problems with the fronts, only problems at the rear. About a year ago I cracked the driver's rear upper forward at the eye while in Sedona. I believe it actually started cracking while on the Back Way to Crown King taking more difficult lines since I was traveling with other rigs and could take more chances, then it failed completely on a washboard gravel road the next morning. When that occurred I chalked it up to random luck; I had never heard of anybody having this particular failure, but then again I've broken plenty of things on this truck that most people don't, such as the front strut I snapped only a couple months prior to that.
At that time I was running 275/65-18 Goodyear Duratracs. A bit larger than the 265s most people run but not much of a difference. I run full time with Johnson Rods, and the truck sees highway use generally only to get to/from trails. It's a trail rig, not a daily driver. Extra weight wise, I have Tactical Rovers sliders, gas tank skid, and transfer case skid; a custom built rear steel bumper w/dual swing outs; ARB front bumper w/winch; Urban Offroad low-profile rack; and carry a full time load of spares and recovery gear that probably weighs around 100 lbs not including the hi-lift on the front bumper. Add to that the camping gear, water, food, fridge, and 2 people for a typical trip.
I have noticed that the truck rides a bit harsher on washboard or other sharp/harsh roads. This seems to be a direct result of the firmer bushings.
So, after that first failure I simply replaced it with what I could get my hands on while on the road which was a stock LR3 arm w/bushings. It's still in there. I kept my broken part thinking I'd switch out the poly bushings (orange, from AB FWIW) when I got around to it but….well…it just hasn't been a priority.
Last winter I switched from the Duratracs to Cooper STT Pros in 275/70-18. A little bigger at just over 33” and a little heavier (I don't recall the weight difference). Otherwise the truck is still the same.
Then about a month ago while on the Rubicon trip I had the passenger side upper forward control arm fail in exactly the same way as the driver's had previously. This seemed too much to be a coincidence. Looking at the failure in detail you can see the welds did not fail but the eye snapped off just outside the weld. Again, more supposition, but it appears that the heat from welding the eye on left the metal weaker. I also notice that the rear eye has a gusset while the forward does not.
I joke a bit about how I abuse the truck. But that's not to say I'm a lead foot who makes banzai runs at crazy obstacles; I'm not a Pin it to Win it type. I'm actually a pretty cautious driver who really does embrace the ‘slow as I can, fast as I must' ethos. I'm just willing (eager even) to push my LR3 over obstacles that most owners won't try. So while I say I abuse the truck, it's more a matter of tackling more challenges than most than crazy driving.
So why did I have identical failures on each side of the truck? The major factor I can come up with is the stiffer bushings can be felt to provide a harsher ride so it's fair to assume they also transmit more vibration and energy into the arm which results in the weakest point failing. I can't show definitive proof of this, only my best speculation and guess. I don't plan to go back to poly bushings for the parts I've broken (currently stock on the driver's upper, poly on the driver's lower, and RRS upper and lower on the passenger's side, so quite a mix for the time being). In the front I'll leave the poly in place but when they are ready to be replaced my current thinking is to go back to rubber. Not for durability but for a slightly softer ride on washboard roads.
That's about as exhaustive as I can be…not sure if it's any help but I thought I'd go ahead and lay it all out in one place.