Another opinion

[riverfever]

I am completely anal about my XJ. Noises, and things like that simply must be tracked down. It's a 96 and had Rustys 3" full leaf kit until recently. The coils had sagged so much and it was not level so I swapped some stuff. Here's the specs now:
Full 3" leafs with Chevy lowering shackles (they actually raise the Cherokee about 2")
RE 3.5 coils and .75" spacer.
Skylacker fixed LCA's.
Track bar relocation bracket.

I guess this stuff raised it up about an inch from where it was and leveled it out. I was really happy with how it sat afterwards. I did get it aligned. I definitely notice it handles differently now though. It seems to require a lot more corrective steering while traveling at highway speeds. I don't think it follows grooves in the road and the steering wheel does not jerk in my hands from bumps. My friends that have 8" lifts and 35-37's tell me to stop being a woos and drive it. They say if it handles differently it's just b/c it's a lifted XJ. This can't be right though. I wonder if the trackbar and draglink angles are screwy or it has something to do with the relocation bracket? I'm hearing a lot of guys say that bracket is garbage and can cause bumpsteer. I'll get a pic of my angles if it will help. I don't think I'd want to drive the thing on a long road trip right now b/c something just doesn't feel right. Thanks.

-river

 

[Fergie]

I am completely anal about my XJ. Noises, and things like that simply must be tracked down. It's a 96 and had Rustys 3" full leaf kit until recently. The coils had sagged so much and it was not level so I swapped some stuff. Here's the specs now:
Full 3" leafs with Chevy lowering shackles (they actually raise the Cherokee about 2")
RE 3.5 coils and .75" spacer.
Skylacker fixed LCA's.
Track bar relocation bracket.

I guess this stuff raised it up about an inch from where it was and leveled it out. I was really happy with how it sat afterwards. I did get it aligned. I definitely notice it handles differently now though. It seems to require a lot more corrective steering while traveling at highway speeds. I don't think it follows grooves in the road and the steering wheel does not jerk in my hands from bumps. My friends that have 8" lifts and 35-37's tell me to stop being a woos and drive it. They say if it handles differently it's just b/c it's a lifted XJ. This can't be right though. I wonder if the trackbar and draglink angles are screwy or it has something to do with the relocation bracket? I'm hearing a lot of guys say that bracket is garbage and can cause bumpsteer. I'll get a pic of my angles if it will help. I don't think I'd want to drive the thing on a long road trip right now b/c something just doesn't feel right. Thanks.

-river

Riv,

Your TB and DL should be EXACTLY parallel to each other for best results. I had a relocation bracket on my 95, and got rid of it in favor of a Kevin's TB conversion, same as the RE HD model. It made the ride a lot better steering wise.

It could also be your CA angles. If they are too steep, they transfer more impact into the body of the XJ as oppossed to the suspension of it.

A pic of you CA and DL/TB angles would be good.

 

[\\'anderer]

I would toss the trackbar bracket and get a heavy duty trackbar for a lifted XJ. Like Fergie said the angles need to be exact, The more you can keep the angles to factory specs. the better and safer it will ride.
Please post pic's

 

[riverfever]

Hey Fergie!

I was wondering about it after finding this pic of another XJ:

This is about what mine looks like and this guy is running the same bracket too and dealing with similar issues. I will post pics of my front end tomorrow. Thanks...both of you.

 

[Fergie]

Hey Fergie!

I was wondering about it after finding this pic of another XJ:

This is about what mine looks like and this guy is running the same bracket too and dealing with similar issues. I will post pics of my front end tomorrow. Thanks...both of you.

What you need to do is to draw some lines.

One from mount point to mount point on the TB, and one from the steering box mount to the DL/TR connection. Those two line need to be parallel, or within a few degrees.

And ditch the bracket. Redrill the stock mount, go OAB(too much IMO), or get an HD bracket for the body side.

CA angle pic?

 

[riverfever]

This isn't my XJ so I'll get pics of the TB/DL and CA's tomorrow. I used the bracket b/c I wanted to have the axle centered. I guess this trade off wasn't worth it. I realize the bracket should be a temporary fix until I can do it right with an adjustable TB.

 

[\\'anderer]

the highlighted lines show the angles that should be as close to parallel as possible.View attachment 7540

 

[\\'anderer]

Here is my friends jeep with some better angles
View attachment 7542

 

[riverfever]

Thanks Mike. I just can't believe that would make it so sketchy to drive. On mine, it looks like if I just ditched the bracket and used an adjustable TB (like you both said), the lines would be really close. I researched a bit and some guys (not here) were saying drop pitman arm but that would make things worse. Does your buddy just have an adjustable TB? Also...what lift is that Jeep at? Pics of mine are coming.

 

[Bob_Sheaves]

ADDENDUM to info

Since you guys are playing with one of the vehicles I worked on at JTE, I hope you don't mind me adding some more information on this:

1. The statement about keeping the panhard rod (commonly called a track bar) and the draglink is absolutely correct. Keep them exactly parallel through the JOINTS (the bar itself does not matter, except in the case of bending-the more offset between the bar and the "action axis" through the joints, the greater the bending force on the bar itself). Anytime motion changes direction, the geometric intersection of the force axis of "A" and "B" (whatever components A & B are) is the actual location of the change, not the connecting bars, links, or whatever.

2. The steeper the total angle between the axle end joints and the body end joints, relative to the horizontal wheel end to wheel end axis, the more lateral "head toss", or lateral body movement, you will have, which induces the death wobble when it phases with the bending of a high offsett in the bars themselves, as well as true bump steer in the steering geometry. In other words, the included angle between the 2 axis causes the amount of curve to the arc of the panhard rod movement (the greater swing the axle has-since it does not move straight up and down, relative to the body.

--Sidebar comment, nice explanation Fergie. Ya done good!

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com

 

[\\'anderer]

Here is an article I found.

http://oramagazine.com/pastIssues/0407-issue/index.asp?article=finesse

 

[\\'anderer]

Oh, and the Jeep has a RE 3.5" lift with a RE adjustable HD trackbar and it drives great.

My XJ has a 3" lift with a 4WD hardware adjustable trackbar and it drives like a go cart, better than stock.:rally_guys:

 

[Bob_Sheaves]

Article comments

Nice article Wanderer...thanks for posting it.

I only see one glaring error in that article, that information of the pitman arm lowering is not nearly as "warning" to the end user about modifying the pitman arm offset. From an OEM standpoint (remember, I am speaking of ultimate durability and liability), dropping the pitman arm attachment point of the drag link is verboten. The Saginaw 708 gearbox as used on the XJ/MJ/ZJ/and WJ is NOT strong enough to properly drop the pitman arm boss....and live to OEM requirements (key word in that statement..."OEM").

The lower shaft pivot will fail under any increase in the stock offset distance. Additionally, the box mounting needs extensive reinforcement, as does the panhard rod mounting to prevent cracks in the unit body construction. This was a warrenty problem for all the mentioned models and many owners were upset that Chrysler would not pay for repairs when the poorly designed kits caused metal fatigue and failure of those components. Of all those that sued for the repairs, all lost their case against Chrysler (as well as AMC, earlier).

The proper "fix" for those problems is not inexpensive. Look at any of the Jeep Factory offroad race cars from 1987 thru 1991 (I had Chrysler engineering responsibility for all those vehicles from Walter Voss-head at that time of Jeep Motorsports).

Of course, you may do what you wish, but be aware of the responsibility you are incurring by modifying the pitman arm and associated components.

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com

 

[\\'anderer]

I agree Bob, I do not like drop pitman arms or any other "patch" type of linkage/bracket. I would rather change the steering as a system. Though I have no experience with OTK conversions, some of them look like a good way to correct steering angles for higher lifts.

View attachment 7572

 

[riverfever]

Ok guys here's where I'm at now after having someone with lots more experience look at it with me today:

I have multiple issues going on. The tie rod at the frame end of the track bar is trashed. The tie rod itself at the passengers knuckle is also trashed. With 125,000 miles on the OE steering components, I'm sure they're due for replacement. Another major problem is with the Skyjacker LCA's. The bushings are trashed. I guess all this stuff combined is really wreaking havoc on the front end. So...I'm going to order either the RE HD trackbar or Kevins (not sure which yet). I'll ditch the relocation bracket and that will get the angles closer to where they need to be. I'll do new bushings in the LCA's too. I think I'm going to do a ZJ V8 steering conversion instead of messing with replacing the worn stuff with XJ parts. To top it off...I'll do new 32x11.50 BFG AT's on Rockcrawler wheels after the steering is sourced out.

What do you guys think? I'm kinda bummed about all the money it's gonna cost me but this is all stuff that's gonna happen eventually and, knock on wood, I've been really lucky with my XJ. Thanks for all your help. If you have any thoughts about my plans, I'd love to hear them.

-Chris