ANOTHER Van Build Thread

TroySmith80

Adventurer
GTRV stands for Garagable Top RV and they are a pop-up, similar to the penthouse, but even lower profile when in the down position. Google GTRV. I think they're in BC, Canada. Any new top is going to cost a minimum of a couple grand.

Stationary tops are cheaper (and have a lot of advantages in my opinion). They're also a lot easier to find used since they're used on all sorts of shuttles, wheelchair vans, etc. DSW4x4 (google colorado camper van) can convert one of those into a pop-up for you, but it costs a bit for that as well. Pretty impressive result though.
 

1sweetvan

Adventurer
The best "used pop top" option that I've seen is a top from a Eurovan. It's one of those "V" tops but hardly raises the roof line at all. I've seen them go for around $500. The ones I've found were always too far away for me to get them shipped, but when I find one close by.....

This guy has done one on a Ford and a Chev.

http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5027&hilit=betty+white


Used Westy tops will work but don't look nearly as nice.
 

Salmon

New member
Pop Tops

TroySmith80, GTRV "T-Top" seems pretty good to me, I like the looks even better than the SMB penthouse. 1SweetVan, I'm not really a fan of the wedge ones, although $500 is hard to argue with, compared to some of these prices I see. I am leaning towards the other type - the ones where the whole top lifts straight up instead of hinging. But I'm interested in hearing what you like about the wedge pop tops or the fixed tops.

Here's what I'm thinking:
Horizontal pop top (not sure the correct term, other than T Top or Penthouse)
+most usable area (to sleep)
-can't sit up
-more complex linkages?
+cool-looking
-moving parts and soft parts susceptible to damage/wear/failure

Wedge pop top
+can sit up
-moving parts and soft parts susceptible to damage/wear/failure
-reduced footroom
-an even bigger sail area than other types
-limited stuff you can leave on the roof rack
+simpler mechanical parts than other type pop top (??)

Fixed top
+probably cheapest
+less to go wrong
+probably strongest roof
-probably least usable for roof rack, because weight is held up higher (worse CG)
+most insulated
-no more McDonalds drive-through
+easiest to install ceiling lights, fan, etc.
+least maintenance
-more conspicuous...compared to a pop top which is not popped
+always have standing headroom - no need to raise roof before standing up

So what did I forget? Or not think about?
 
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RocKrawler

Supporting Sponsor
I think you've summed up the pro's & con's nicely above except the only thing I'd question in your analysis is the "-more conspicuous" for the fixed top. Since high tops are relatively common (as you mentioned in shuttles, disabled applications, etc) I think they are much more common stealth parked in a lot than a pop top extended up (you never see that in a Wal-Mart parking lot or rest stop), personally I think the fixed top is way less conspicuous to me as I ignore high tops all the time and can spot a sportsmobile in a packed parking lot in a second.
 

Salmon

New member
I should have qualified that with "...compared to a pop top which is not popped", but the high-tops are probably even more numerous than pop top conversions all told. And trying to be inconspicous by having a pop top not popped certainly doesn't do anything for you.

I'll fix it.

EDIT: Fixed.
 

dsw4x4

Adventurer
That is a pretty fair assumption but my pop tops allow you to sit up in bed I actually have 12 inches over the top of my head when sitting in bed. And when the top is down my girlfriend can still stand up in the van I can too but I have to cock my head down. I am 6'2". And I guess one could argue the complexity of linkages pop tops are pretty simple v tops are to but I would say you have about the same amount of moving parts all said and done.
 

r_w

Adventurer
That is a pretty fair assumption but my pop tops allow you to sit up in bed I actually have 12 inches over the top of my head when sitting in bed. And when the top is down my girlfriend can still stand up in the van I can too but I have to cock my head down. I am 6'2". And I guess one could argue the complexity of linkages pop tops are pretty simple v tops are to but I would say you have about the same amount of moving parts all said and done.

Yeah, but your poptop is not normal. :drool:

Losing micky-D's drivethru doesn't bother me at all, losing the ability to park in a parking garage is a deal-breaker for me.

A. Figure out what you need now.
B. Figure out what you want in the end.
C. Plan how to get from A to B without wasting money.
 

Salmon

New member
I've been actively looking for vans for about a month and a half now (I was overseas before that so I wasn't going to waste a seller's time until I was actually in a position to purchase). I am amazed at how hard it's been to find what I'm looking for. I figured there would be more big gas-guzzler vans on the market with fuel prices how they are. I was prepared to take my time, even look for several months until I found exactly what I wanted, but to date I have not even found a van to LOOK at. Everything either has some sort of deal-breaker right from the start (gas, too expensive, already sold, bad body rust, aftermarket transmission, etc), or it's just too far away. To be fair, unless it's IN San Diego, I can't really look until the weekends, so I think a couple have sold between when it posts on Monday and when I try to check it out on Friday. I'm basically trying to restrict myself to an 8-hour driving radius from San Diego, which means from San Francisco south, and mid-AZ west.

So...I'm thinking maybe I'll relax my criteria a little. Here is what I'm considering:
1) What do you fellas think about minibus-style cutaway vans? Those shuttle-bus ones seem like they might not stand up to long-term expedition and camping duty (?), but I have seen some older mini-bus or "short bus" conversions that seem to be well-made (based on pictures I've seen). I also like the fact that the body is cab-width on some of them, not wider like most of the airport-shuttle types. I am not too thrilled about the high fixed roof instead of pop-top, but I see the obvious advantages to it.

2) I am considering looking at some of the '06/'07 vans with the 6L. I know there are diehards who will insist the 7.3L was the last reliable diesel in these vans, but I have been reading a lot of the diesel forum stuff and it seems like MOST of the 6.0L engines with chronic problems are pre-'05s. Of course it's all circumstantial and no "proof" that I have found, and most of the info I've come across is about the F-series engines, not the E's. I think RSC is still going to be a deal-breaker, so that means I'm looking only at cargo vans in the later years, if I understand things correctly. And my personal opinion is that anything turbo is automatically going to be a little less reliable in remote places, just because there is one more system that could break and leave you in a pickle. But for the other 90% of the time, it would be nice to have a lighter, torquier, more powerful, more efficient vehicle so maybe that's a good trade-off. So does anyone have any sage advice about why I should/should not buy an '06 or '07 or similar for my purposes?

3) I looked at a few ambulances (in pictures only), and I am now considering including them in my search too. My concerns with ambulances are a) they seem more likely to have been abused, b) it seems like I'd lose some flexibility in how I set up the interior, compared to a stock cargo van. I have seen some amazing builds so I know what is possible, but realistically I have very little fabrication experience and no access to a good workshop or even to more than the basic hand and power tools. Does anybody have any input on feasibility or wisdom of doing a basic, keep-it-simple build based on an ambulance?

4) Just throwing this out there, but has anyone had experience with swapping a diesel into a gas van in CA, or any other restrictive states? I see a lot of 5.4L vans out there, and one thought I had was to buy one of those with plans to do an engine swap several years down the road. I have a couple heavy trailers (~9K-11K lbs) that I will need to tow across the country at some point, and I suspect the 5.4L gas engine would not be up to task. I have a general understanding of the mechanical requirements, but I'm more asking about the legal aspects. I wonder if that would just be a nightmare with the DMV, trying to convince them it's no longer a gas engine when they want my money for smog inspections. On the other hand, I think the little gas engine would be plenty strong enough to get even a fully expedition-loaded van without trailer around (I don't plan to go mudding with it, or have to turn 37" tires). I'd be ok with driving 60-65 mph everywhere I go when loaded, if I have to. Thoughts??
 

2040JAVIER

New member
hello what size van are you looking for cargo with sliding door or cargo with barn doors or 15 passenger van i have a 1996 cargo 7.3 turbo diesel for sale with slinding door awd on 33 inch tires no smog needed in california will post for sale next week.
 

Salmon

New member
2040JAVIER, ideally I'm trying to find an XLT with barn doors, but I'm not ruling out sliding doors. Cargo vs passenger is not an issue for me. It depends on price but I will pull the seats and stuff out of the back anyway. I was looking more at 2WD vans just because they are usually more in my price range, but if I can afford it I'd be interested in checking out your van.
 

dhally

Hammerhead
I searched for a van for over a year and only found a very few that fit my criteria. I was looking for a gas van, but saw the diesels. They are few and far between. I don't think it will be easy to find an 06-07 diesel for under $10K.

As far as 06-07 model years, I think the steering was improved right around that time, and the brakes had a major upgrade in 08.

Why is RSC an issue?
 

ujoint

Supporting Sponsor
I talk to a ton of guys that are searching for the perfect van. It can happen quick, or it can take several months. There are some 6.0 vans popping up for under 10K, but they usually have over 100K. Which is good, because 6.0's ned to be run! As long as it has good service records (oil & fuel filter changes) I wouldn't be scared. You can make a few easy upgrades to address some of the common 6.0 issues.

RSC is no longer a problem with my conversions, but the axle has to come from me & it's a $1995 upgrade. It's not just an RSC upgrade though.... it also comes with serviceable wheel bearings, 35 spline stub shafts, crossover steering, tie rod, knuckles & locking hubs. Pretty bad a** kit!
 

ExpoMike

Well-known member
I'll throw out what I know about engine swaps. In CA it can be done but you need to do all your homework first. First off, the engine must be in the same vehicle class (i.e. no 25K GVW engine into a 10K GVW class vehicle). It must be of the same year or newer of the vehicle body it's going into. You need to have all the smog equipment that came with that year engine, regardless of what vehicle it goes into.

You're best bet, if you really want to do this, is to get really friendly with a local CARB referee. Get him/her to give you all the info/spec on what you want to do and make sure you work with them during your inspection.

Personally I would not look at any vehicle newer than '97 if you want to swap in a diesel as CA does not smog test anything before '98. You will still have to get your CARB sign off and meet the smog requirements at that time but you shouldn't need any future tests. This is why I bought the '97 Ram and not a newer one.

Good luck and keep hunting. Back last Thanksgiving time, I found a 4x4 Ford E350 ex-ambulance van with 53K miles, up in LA for $5000. We would have bought it but their was not enough footwell room on the pass. side for my wife. Actually found that one on Ebay. Deals are out there but you got to be looking 2-4 times a day and be ready to jump.
 

Salmon

New member
I wanted to avoid RSC because frankly I don't understand it, and for all the reasons that ujoint mentioned - requires specific and (i assume) harder-to-find parts to lift it, more expensive, and it seems like one of those things that can leave you in a bind if something goes wrong with it out in the boonies. But it's good to know there IS at least SOME solution out there.

xj_mike, that's great info, thanks. Does all that also apply to a gas-to-diesel conversion too? It seems like it's such a subjective thing - if your CARB ref is having a bad day or just doesn't want to play ball or whatever, and he doesn't give you the green light, then what? Are you just SOL, or is there some sort of recourse/appeal? It seems like you would be really sticking your neck out by doing a swap. But I'll admit I might just be a little jaded due to some recent unrelated experiences with government agencies that did not go very smoothly.

I have not been looking at eBay much, mostly craigslist and other classifieds sites. eBay is blocked on my work computer so it makes it tough but I need to start checking there too. Thanks for all the input, guys. I can't wait to find a van and get started.
 

Herbie

Rendezvous Conspirator
xj_mike, that's great info, thanks. Does all that also apply to a gas-to-diesel conversion too? It seems like it's such a subjective thing - if your CARB ref is having a bad day or just doesn't want to play ball or whatever, and he doesn't give you the green light, then what? Are you just SOL, or is there some sort of recourse/appeal? It seems like you would be really sticking your neck out by doing a swap. But I'll admit I might just be a little jaded due to some recent unrelated experiences with government agencies that did not go very smoothly.

I always say you want to "develop a relationship with a referee", because that's what it will be. This isn't going to be a once-meeting and done. Meet him before you get started, then follow up with the same guy and follow all of his instructions.

A buddy did a fully CARB'd swap of a newer Honda motor into his CRX, which is a fairly common and well-understood thing to do, and IIRC it was like 4 or 5 visits to his referee to get everything sorted. The 4th and 5th trips were to sort out really minor stuff like making sure some vacuum line tied in after some valve instead of before, etc. It sounds petty and silly, but if you go into it with the attitude of wanting to do everything RIGHT and are willing to make changes as directed, it goes pretty fast.
 

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