Anti gun legislation

xtatik

Explorer
While I don't really disagree with you're points.



You have this part backwards...

No, I'm certain it was written by men, men who amounted to a governing body at the time.....a government. The American government wrote the Constitution.
 

xtatik

Explorer
So if there are no right or wrong answers, who determines who qualifies or doesn't? What 'type' of person should qualify to have a firearm?

I'm not a psych expert. As I mentioned, I had to take this "inventory" once during the child custody portion of a divorce. It was very revealing, and actually the results were very helpful information to know. Especially about my Ex....:Wow1:Who Nellie, what was I thinkin'!
The inventory can detect a huge number of known personality traits. Both good and bad and we've all got both. It goes a step further in denoting whether or not the person is actually functioning properly with these traits or is functioning at a disordered level. Further testing can determine at which level. The test knows when your bluffing or trying to BS your way through, so a schizo that thinks he can "maintain" while he's taking it will be in for a surprise at the end. Gross personality disorders such as Schizophrenia don't stand a chance.
 

PirateMcGee

Expedition Leader
Crazy people are going to do crazy things......criminals are going to commit crimes......murderers are going to murder; additonal regulations are not going to stop these facts of humanity. Controls and regulations only go so far and the majority of the time go unenforced or are weakly enforced. Too often people use the tragedy of the moment to further their own politic/personal agenda; ultimately, this does little to solve the base issue/problem at hand and is forgotten as soon as the next tradgedy comes along leaving behind a mess of regulation and litigation tieing up countless hours and dollars.

Our current gun laws are pretty good, instead of focusing billions on lobbyists and laws maybe we should put more money towards education and services that prevent crimes.
 

McZippie

Walmart Adventure Camper
Want to change the 2A to ban guns??? ...OK!!! then lets also change the 1A that protects free speech, so we can ban all violence from music, video games, movies and TV that 'may' influence the young and mentally unstable to commit these acts of violence.

Terrible sorry that the Congresswoman and others got shot by this latest Nutjob... but at times, that's the hard cold reality, of the price WE pay for OUR freedom, to keep government fearful of the PEOPLE.
 

xtatik

Explorer
Crazy people are going to do crazy things......criminals are going to commit crimes......murderers are going to murder; additonal regulations are not going to stop these facts of humanity. Controls and regulations only go so far and the majority of the time go unenforced or are weakly enforced. Too often people use the tragedy of the moment to further their own politic/personal agenda; ultimately, this does little to solve the base issue/problem at hand and is forgotten as soon as the next tradgedy comes along leaving behind a mess of regulation and litigation tieing up countless hours and dollars.

Our current gun laws are pretty good, instead of focusing billions on lobbyists and laws maybe we should put more money towards education and services that prevent crimes.

I can't disagree with your last comments on education, but it won't solve the problem with mentally ill people having the ability to legally source a gun. I doubt the types of education we're discussing will make there way into our our schools. Your first paragraph doesn't really make sense within the context of this discussion. Currently there are no laws to enforce that are prohibiting the sale of guns to the blind, mentally ill, or the mentally challenged.

Want to change the 2A to ban guns??? ...OK!!! then lets also change the 1A that protects free speech, so we can ban all violence from music, video games, movies and TV that 'may' influence the young and mentally unstable to commit these acts of violence.

Terrible sorry that the Congresswoman and others got shot by this latest Nutjob... but at times, that's the hard cold reality, of the price WE pay for OUR freedom, to keep government fearful of the PEOPLE.

I don't think anyone in this thread is challenging the fundamental right to own guns. The issue of owning guns to keep our government in check was dealt with back in posts #44 and #48 in this thread. IMO, that really is just a romantic notion in these times. I'm certain this was a component of thought at the time, but when considering todays disparity in firepower wielded both by our citizens v. our governments combined armed forces I just don't think our government would have much to fear. If I've mistaken you and you were speaking of a foreign invasion...we might have greater impact working in conjunction with our armed forces.
 

McZippie

Walmart Adventure Camper
I don't think anyone in this thread is challenging the fundamental right to own guns. The issue of owning guns to keep our government in check was dealt with back in posts #44 and #48 in this thread. IMO, that really is just a romantic notion in these times. I'm certain this was a component of thought at the time, but when considering todays disparity in firepower wielded both by our citizens v. our governments combined armed forces I just don't think our government would have much to fear. If I've mistaken you and you were speaking of a foreign invasion...we might have greater impact working in conjunction with our armed forces.

NO No no!... my mistaken comrade in Arms.
A simple example of the power of guns in hands of the PEOPLE and it's power to keep governments fearful of the PEOPLE:

If during the years before and during the 2nd World War most of the Jews in Nazi Germany had a gun and a few of the brave, shot the SOBs that came knocking on their doors and also blew away some of the leaders, the history of the Holocaust would be different and in turn the history of world...

Never underestimate the significance of: "From my cold dead hands"
 

PirateMcGee

Expedition Leader
I can't disagree with your last comments on education, but it won't solve the problem with mentally ill people having the ability to legally source a gun. I doubt the types of education we're discussing will make there way into our our schools. Your first paragraph doesn't really make sense within the context of this discussion. Currently there are no laws to enforce that are prohibiting the sale of guns to the blind, mentally ill, or the mentally challenged.


I was responding to the OP basically......I didn't read all the other stuff.

In reponse to the mentally ill thing a mental apptitude and firearm safety licencing test would be a good idea and I would be all for it.
 

paulj

Expedition Leader
Want to change the 2A to ban guns???..., of the price WE pay for OUR freedom, to keep government fearful of the PEOPLE.

I don't see the connection between keeping the government fearful of gun owners (self appointed vigilantes?), and the 2nd A's 'well regulated militia'.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
 

xtatik

Explorer
NO No no!... my mistaken comrade in Arms.
A simple example of the power of guns in hands of the PEOPLE and it's power to keep governments fearful of the PEOPLE:

If during the years before and during the 2nd World War most of the Jews in Nazi Germany had a gun and a few of the brave, shot the SOBs that came knocking on their doors and also blew away some of the leaders, the history of the Holocaust would be different and in turn the history of world...

Never underestimate the significance of: "From my cold dead hands"

Um, I don't think I'm mistaking anything. I still think your suggesting a fantasy. There was plenty of armed resistance occurring in WWII. Many did bravely attempt armed retaliation and most who did were met with a more immediate demise than those who didn't. And, BTW the guns were taken from their.....well you know.
But, I'd really like to keep this thread on tack.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
WWII gun history is more complicated than that. Hitler feared civilian gun ownership.....so did Japan.

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”
 

McZippie

Walmart Adventure Camper
Um, I don't think I'm mistaking anything. I still think your suggesting a fantasy. There was plenty of armed resistance occurring in WWII. Many did bravely attempt armed retaliation and most who did were met with a more immediate demise than those who didn't. And, BTW the guns were taken from their.....well you know.
But, I'd really like to keep this thread on tack.

Ok we'll end this with... It may be a "fantasy" but I firmly believe that guns in the hands of our citizens and military benefits the whole world. One can argue the finer points forever, but the World without America's leadership, even with all our warts, would be a much darker place. It would be frightful to live in a world without the US keeping the peace. Imagine if Russia, China or even Germany was the only super power.
 
I would rather limit the who then the how or the what. Apart from help reduce gun crimes, these psych evals may help to increase the 36% of diagnosed mentally ill people who actually get treated. It is a relatively simple process for a psychologist to identify a crazy person such as this nutjob who opened up on those people in AZ.



It will do l nothing statistically for gun crimes, according to the FBI's crime report, if you want to wade through all of it, less than 2 percent of gun crimes are commited by someone who leagally purchased their gun.
 

paulj

Expedition Leader
NO No no!... my mistaken comrade in Arms.
A simple example of the power of guns in hands of the PEOPLE and it's power to keep governments fearful of the PEOPLE:
..."
What would have happened in the USA (and Canada) if Japanese Americans (and their sympathetic neighbors) had resisted with guns their internment? Or didn't the 2A apply to them? Most Americans approved of this violation of the 5A, though a later generation apologized for it.

The Whiskey Rebellion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
is an example of armed rebellion in the USA. and it occurred immediately after the ratification of the Bill of Rights.
The alarm was raised, and more than 500 armed Pennsylvanians attacked the fortified home of tax inspector General John Neville. The Washington administration responded by sending peace commissioners to western Pennsylvania to negotiate with the rebels, while at the same time raising a militia force to suppress the violence. The insurrection collapsed before the arrival of the army; about 20 men were arrested, but all were later acquitted or pardoned.
Historian Steven Boyd argued that the suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion prompted anti-Federalist westerners to finally accept the Constitution, and to seek change by voting for Republicans rather than resisting the government. Federalists, for their part, came to accept that the people could play a greater role in governance.
 
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The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is the standard for court-appointed psych eval's (730) currently. It takes between 1-2 hours on average, and can be administered both to the blind (may not apply here...I'd hope:Wow1:) or to the illiterate. Someone questioned whether or not the government could be trusted to render a fair test. This test is precisely the test I would have in mind. It is extremely accurate. It is not a pass/fail in the usual sense. There are no right or wrong answers. Basically, you are telling the test how you're hardwired. I took it several years ago and was astounded at how well it nailed who I am.
In the context of a half-day course giving 3-1/2 hours of training, 1/2 hour written test and the remaining dedicated to this test...it doesn't seem extreme. One half day course.

While at my old job on a Govt security contract, the contract company used this test to weed out applicants. It was administered by a third party company. I was the hiring officer for the contract. Five people I know personally, very well you might say, took this test. These five failed the test. And based on that test were un-hireable. Without going deep into the typing out these five peoples merrits, let me surfice to say that all of them are exceptional. Of the hundreds of applicants that "passed" this test I could only hire about 5 percent. Despite them passing the test, the rest were simply un-hireable do to non test related problems. Given my experience Im not sure I have alot of faith in the MMPI.
Mike
Mike
 

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