Anti gun legislation

keezer37

Explorer
BBC article on why any real change is not likely to happen in this case (in contrast, say, to a shooting in Australia some years ago):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12158148

Their view is that a gun-culture is too ingrained in American culture and thinking, especially in more rural states.

Rereading the attached story, I think of posts, even past threads that show disdain for over-burdensome laws and distrust of government. Within this story, I specifically look at the polls taken of the American people: 82% support for a ban on assault weapons, 79% support for gun registration. If this thread is any indication, I would guess that there would be similar support for training in all states if the people spoke in lieu of their purported representatives.

What blocks the will of the people? Government may be guilty of being ineffective. But if you want to be angry at an entity trying to control your life, direct your anger at lobbyists. They block the will of the people.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
I have the right to free speech, but I cannot slander someone.(Oh man, this sucks!)

Slander (or libel) is making false statements intent to harm or discredit. You are actually able to say or write anything that is truthful.

Slander is criminal. Speaking out against someone truthfully and factually is protected. What becomes the challenge is evidence, which is why people that are actually being truthful can still land themselves in serious trouble.
 

MP@HOME

Observer
We have a poll for a CBS station in Palm Springs CA.93% against more
gun regulations ,7% for more regulations. You can choose which poll
to believe , this one is not manipulated by the poll takers , I don't know
about the ones mentioned in the BBC news which is a known anti gun
news org.
 
. Statistically, the method McVey used isn't used as often. We're discussing guns.

Imagine, if you will... guns were less accessible...

what method would these crazed individuals, hell bent on destruction, turn to?

the information is out there. all one needs to do is a little searching and they can have all the knowledge needed to create a WMD.
 
The 2A wasn't immaculately conceived. An example would be a blind person. Under the current program, he clearly has the right to own a gun, same with the person with mental retardation or mental illness. The document doesn't stand alone, we ordain it...all of us as stated in the preamble.



Some I own are heirlooms given to me by my grandfather, with all the great memories I associate to them.

so.. you are saying blind folks, shouldnt be allowed to own heirlooms from their long lost grandfather?
 
No, I'm certain it was written by men, men who amounted to a governing body at the time.....a government. The American government wrote the Constitution.


the right to own a gun was given by god, the creator, or whomever you believe in. The constitution is merely stating that it shall not infringe upon this fact.
 
I don't see the connection between keeping the government fearful of gun owners (self appointed vigilantes?), and the 2nd A's 'well regulated militia'.

the only connection there is your opinion of a "well regulated militia"
You see them as "self appointed vigilantes"... I see them as a well regulated miitia.

It doesnt matter what your opinion of them is, just so long as they exist.
 

Mr. Leary

Glamping Excursionaire
Terrible sorry that the Congresswoman and others got shot by this latest Nutjob... but at times, that's the hard cold reality, of the price WE pay for OUR freedom, to keep government fearful of the PEOPLE.

Our founding fathers believed that governments are kept in check by the will and power of the people. Suggesting that they framed our Constitution to willingly allow crazy people to keep the governement and the public in fear of their lives is just silly.

If during the years before and during the 2nd World War most of the Jews in Nazi Germany had a gun and a few of the brave, shot the SOBs that came knocking on their doors and also blew away some of the leaders, the history of the Holocaust would be different and in turn the history of world...

A romantic assertion. Armed civilians challenging a military outfit then, and even more now, can only hope to get themselves and innocent civilians killed. The only way this strategy could ever hope to "succeed" is to adopt the methods employed by insurgents today. Those tactics prey upon the morality of the adversary (US and allies, in this case), and rely on the ability of the aggressor to shroud his identity by hiding among civilians. I, for one, would never dishonor myself or my ancestors by fighting in this fashion. I will do my best to enjoy my hobby while doing what I can to make the world a safer place for my family. A world where crazy people and criminals have a harder time arming themselves is a safer world. I think we can all agree on that.

It will do l nothing statistically for gun crimes, according to the FBI's crime report, if you want to wade through all of it, less than 2 percent of gun crimes are commited by someone who leagally purchased their gun.

Absolutely correct. Criminals commit crimes with stolen weapons, primarily. So why not make the weapons an easier legal entity to regulate? Harder to get generally translates to harder to steal. If weapons took longer to get based on lethality, owners would have an incentive to better protect their arsenals from theft. Personally, I have seen plenty of gun owners with them literally strewn around the house. Easy pickings for a burglar, and as mentioned earlier, a steady demand. Gun owners bear the responsibility to protect society from their arsenals as well as enjoy them.

What part of 'shall not be infringed' do some people not understand?
Should you have to undergo a psych eval before speaking in public or posting on the internet? Should you have to apply for a license? How about a license to go to church? Nope. The constitution grants equal protection to free speech, religion, and fire arms.

Yes. It protects them equally and also limits each to protect these rights from causing harm to others. It even provides for these to be suspended in the case that they are willfully intended to cause harm.

Rereading the attached story, I think of posts, even past threads that show disdain for over-burdensome laws and distrust of government. Within this story, I specifically look at the polls taken of the American people: 82% support for a ban on assault weapons, 79% support for gun registration. If this thread is any indication, I would guess that there would be similar support for training in all states if the people spoke in lieu of their purported representatives.

What blocks the will of the people? Government may be guilty of being ineffective. But if you want to be angry at an entity trying to control your life, direct your anger at lobbyists. They block the will of the people.

While I always take statistics with a grain of salt, I couldn't agree more with the last statement. I believe that lobbyists are one of the most paralyzing forces in modern government, and that we would be better off without them.

We have a poll for a CBS station in Palm Springs CA.93% against more
gun regulations ,7% for more regulations. You can choose which poll
to believe , this one is not manipulated by the poll takers , I don't know
about the ones mentioned in the BBC news which is a known anti gun
news org.

California has a history of implementing some of the most backward gun laws in the US. If I lived there, I would be clamoring against further blunders myself.
 

Mr. Leary

Glamping Excursionaire
Imagine, if you will... guns were less accessible...

what method would these crazed individuals, hell bent on destruction, turn to?

the information is out there. all one needs to do is a little searching and they can have all the knowledge needed to create a WMD.

Evidence does not support your claim. Yes. There are isolated cases (even big ones such as OKC), where crazed people turned to alternative measures, but overwhelmingly this is not the principal method of "going postal."

the right to own a gun was given by god, the creator, or whomever you believe in. The constitution is merely stating that it shall not infringe upon this fact.

I think you are confusing the Bill of Rights with the Ten Commandments.

the only connection there is your opinion of a "well regulated militia"
You see them as "self appointed vigilantes"... I see them as a well regulated miitia.

It doesnt matter what your opinion of them is, just so long as they exist.

Kinda defeats the purpose of our Constitutional system of checks and balances to just arm everyone and let them make and enforce their own laws. Its called anarchy, and its not what we live in.
 
California has a history of implementing some of the most backward gun laws in the US. If I lived there, I would be clamoring against further blunders myself.

california has a history of showing the future for the rest of the country. what happens here eventually makes its way to the rest of the country. If I didnt live in CA I would stand against any proposed gun regulation, especially if it starts in CA.

CA also has one of the largest and fastest growing black rifle communities in the country.
 
Absolutely correct. Criminals commit crimes with stolen weapons, primarily. So why not make the weapons an easier legal entity to regulate? Harder to get generally translates to harder to steal. If weapons took longer to get based on lethality, owners would have an incentive to better protect their arsenals from theft. Personally, I have seen plenty of gun owners with them literally strewn around the house. Easy pickings for a burglar, and as mentioned earlier, a steady demand. Gun owners bear the responsibility to protect society from their arsenals as well as enjoy them.




Im not sure that all guns are stolen, I have never met anyone who has had one of their guns stolen. Obviously it happens, no doubt. I just havent known anyone. With that said all my weapons are locked in vaults and fast action style safes. Making guns harder to get for me either based on lethality or not, will not make them any easier or harder to rob. And if you are talking about the cost of these hard to get guns making their owners be more likely to lock them up, perhaps. But of the many people I personally know, everyone locks up even their cheap guns. Then the based on lethality idea, is that round count, bullet size, muzle velocity, energy, all semiautos, big bolt guns, shotguns, small fast overpenatrating calibers, slow hard hitting ones???? The only thing that makes my ar leathal is the capacity, when compared to my 12 gauge with slugs, my 300 h&h is lethally accurate out to 1000 yards, my 22LR will penetrate most body armor. In fact the most lethal thing by a long shot in my arsenal would be my cold steel machete. Edged weapons are far and away many times more deadly than any bullet. But thats for a different thread.
Mike
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Absolutely correct. Criminals commit crimes with stolen weapons, primarily. So why not make the weapons an easier legal entity to regulate? Harder to get generally translates to harder to steal. If weapons took longer to get based on lethality, owners would have an incentive to better protect their arsenals from theft. Personally, I have seen plenty of gun owners with them literally strewn around the house. Easy pickings for a burglar, and as mentioned earlier, a steady demand. Gun owners bear the responsibility to protect society from their arsenals as well as enjoy them.

Handguns in Chicago where almost impossible to get legally....crime rates went WAY up. You also have to have a state permit, FOID card, no CCW, etc. Does not work....
 

zimm

Expedition Leader
i've always been pro gun. but lately.... something has been changing my mind...

no. not headshots.

its some of the **** i read in forums like this.

wow.
 
Handguns in Chicago where almost impossible to get legally....crime rates went WAY up. You also have to have a state permit, FOID card, no CCW, etc. Does not work....[/QUOTE]

Now that is absolutley correct. As with Newark NJ, New york city, Wa DC, the list goes on and on. Every city with the highest crime rates in the country also have restrictive gun control measures like the FOID and worse.
Yet they still have the highest gun crime in the nation.
Mike
 

Sirocco

Explorer
One can argue the finer points forever, but the World without America's leadership, even with all our warts, would be a much darker place. It would be frightful to live in a world without the US keeping the peace. Imagine if Russia, China or even Germany was the only super power.

This is brilliant :REOutShootinghunter


:xxrotflma

"Today's empires, tomorrow's ashes"

G
 

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