Anyone Built/Running a 3rd Gen Ford Expedition?

[al_burpe]

I would guess it's just that as decent as the 3rd gen Expedition is, it doesn't have any feature that distinguishes it over the much more common and much easier to modify Chevy/GM platforms. The problematic 5.4 on the early models probably keeps some folks away and I'm sure IRS does too.

I don't know what the raw sales numbers are for the Expedition vs. the Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon/Yukon XL/Escalades are but from my seat-of-the-pants observation, the numbers seem to be about 5:1 in favor of the GM products. So it's not just that "overlanders" shun the Expedition, Ford itself seems to have, at best, a half-hearted interest in them. Given that Ford seems to make a dizzying array of SUVs it's not surprising that the big Expedition gets lost in the shuffle.

Really, for the question "why don't we see more Expedition builds" you could substitute "2008+ Sequoia" or "Nissan Armada" just as well - all are decent full sized platforms that market to the Soccer mom base, but are virtually unheard of on these pages.

I tried to look up sales numbers as I thought you were way off. I could only find for one quarter of 2018 but you were just about right on. It didn't have the navigator or Cadillac sales but they probably cancel each other out. I agree that up until the current generation that Ford didn't seem to put much effort in. Why did they keep putting the 5.4 in the Expedition long after they started putting the 5.0 in the F-150?

I would say though that the 2007+ Tahoe and Yukon are just about a sarce on here as the Expedition and other bof vehicles you mentioned even though they retain the solid rear axle.

 

[al_burpe]

Continuing my thought from above: For all the talk about solid rear axles vs IRS, IMO the real problem with the newer full-sized SUV's is that they have completely forgotten that the "U" stands for "utility." Where older versions of these vehicles had flat load decks and removable seats that allowed for a wide variety of interior configurations, the newer versions have replaced the utility with permanently fixed power-folding seats, and these consume ENORMOUS amounts of the available storage space, as well as making modifications nearly impossible without a major gutting of the interior (which in turn will compromise its ability to be a week day grocery getter.)

In truth, I don't think even GM regards these full sized "SUV's" as true "utility" vehicles anymore. They're luxury station wagons with 4 wheel drive. If you want true "utility" and the ability to carry a family your only real choice is a crew cab pickup.

As I've said before, in both the mid-sized and increasingly in the full sized US market, the crew-cab pickup has all but replaced the body-on-frame SUV as the vehicle of choice for people who need true utility or off-road capability.

It really depends on what you are using it for but I have found that my Expedition with the fold flat third row actually offers way more utility than the Frontier crew cab with the short bed that it replaced. I can seat 8 people if I want or with the touch of a button fold everything flat and have more usable space than my tiny pick up truck bed had.

 

[ExplorerTom]

You can't watch 5 minutes of TV without hearing comedian Denis Leary's tough-guy voice spouting off about the F-150 but you never hear a peep about the Expedition other than generic "Ford's SUV lineup" advertising in which the Expedition plays an "also available" role. Does Ford even market the Expedition anymore?

I've never seen an ad for an Expedition on TV (except as noted above) nor in any print magazine except maybe in a car magazine (and then it was only when the "new body style" came out for 2018) nor online anywhere.

OK, but to be fair, when was the last time you saw for a commercial for a Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon?

We’ve all seen F-150 and Silverado/Sierra commercials until we’re blue in the face, but I don’t recall any recent commercials for their SUV cousins. But I also don’t watch a ton a TV commercials or TV in general.

And going to the wiki page for each model, the sales numbers aren’t THAT much in favor for GM SUVs- if you consider only the years where the Expedition/Navigator was produced. Adding up all the years where the Suburban was made really tips it in favor for GM since the Suburban has been made since the 50s (???). The Expedition EL (the closest Ford competitor to the Suburban) isn’t broken out in separate sales figures (from what I saw). I don’t even think the Excursion competes with the 2500 Suburban- the Excursion is in its own league with the solid front axle.

 

[Martinjmpr]

OK, but to be fair, when was the last time you saw for a commercial for a Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon?

We’ve all seen F-150 and Silverado/Sierra commercials until we’re blue in the face, but I don’t recall any recent commercials for their SUV cousins. But I also don’t watch a ton a TV commercials or TV in general.

And going to the wiki page for each model, the sales numbers aren’t THAT much in favor for GM SUVs- if you consider only the years where the Expedition/Navigator was produced. Adding up all the years where the Suburban was made really tips it in favor for GM since the Suburban has been made since the 50s (???). The Expedition EL (the closest Ford competitor to the Suburban) isn’t broken out in separate sales figures (from what I saw). I don’t even think the Excursion competes with the 2500 Suburban- the Excursion is in its own league with the solid front axle.

Heh, well you're off by a couple of decades. The first Suburban was made in 1935 which makes "Suburban" the longest continuously used model name in the automotive world. Even during WWII Chevy made "Suburban Carryalls" for the military.

Of course, "Suburban" wasn't a model name, really, it was a generic name for a type of vehicle. During the 1950's and 60's there were station wagons that also were called "Suburban" (I think Plymouth was one of the companies that used the name.) GM finally got around to registering the Suburban name as a trademark in 1988 I think.

As for the Excursion being in "a league of its own," I would say the Excursion hasn't been in any "league" since Ford dropped it in 2006.

EDITED TO ADD: While Chevy doesn't advertise the Tahoe/Suburban GM does advertise the Yukon as part of their "SUV Trio."

As I was driving in to work today, though, I got to thinking about how much Suburban and Tahoe sales are driven by fleet sales to government agencies. Although there ARE 3rd gen Expeditions used by law enforcement, I have never seen Ford pursue other government contracts - those seem to go exclusively to GM. It just seems odd that Ford wouldn't at least try to get a piece of that pie.

 

[ExplorerTom]

As for the Excursion being in "a league of its own," I would say the Excursion hasn't been in any "league" since Ford dropped it in 2006.

It does when you’re counting up historical sales numbers.

A suburban is really nothing more than a stretched Tahoe. An Excusion is not a stretched Expedition. Even a 2500 Suburban doesn’t compete with an Excursion.

 

[Martinjmpr]

It does when you’re counting up historical sales numbers.

A suburban is really nothing more than a stretched Tahoe.

The Tahoe didn't exist until 1994 so it would be more accurate to say a Tahoe is a Shortened 1500 Suburban.

And as awesome as the Excursion may have been, Ford chose to walk away from that platform in 2006. Why? I have to assume it was a rational business decision - they must have decided there just wasn't enough potential profit to justify keeping them in production. Interestingly, 2006 was also the last year that the 2500 Suburban was made in large numbers. Starting in 2007 they dropped off dramatically and I think quit making them altogether around 2013. They do currently make a 3500 Suburban for fleet sales only (I'm assuming primarily to security firms and government agencies to be used as armored limousines) but in terms of general sales to the public, the "heavy" suburban all but disappeared shortly after the Excursion.

My guess - as I've said before - is that the bean counters and analysts realized that the customers who previously would have bought 3/4 ton (and larger) SUVs could be easily persuaded to replace them with 3/4 and 1-ton crew cab pickups. With that being possible, it didn't make sense for them to keep the "heavy SUV" in production.

I also would guess that CAFE standards had something to do with both the disappearance of the Excursion and the near-disappearance of the 3/4 ton Suburban. By dropping the biggest and heaviest gas-guzzlers in their "automobile" lineups, both Ford and Chevy likely gained CAFE numbers that either reduced or eliminated the CAFE fines they'd have to pay.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I would say though that the 2007+ Tahoe and Yukon are just about a sarce on here as the Expedition and other bof vehicles you mentioned even though they retain the solid rear axle.

I think that's just because vehicles have to move "down market" before owners start chopping them up for Off Roading. Also because us ExPoer's are cheap SOBs.

You don't see a lot of newer Sequoias (2008+) or Nissan Armada being built up either, probably because taking a sawzall to Mom's taxi doesn't sit well with her.

 

[ExplorerTom]

According to New York State, damn near every SUV is a suburban:

New York DMV Answers | Error

nysdmv.custhelp.com