Arctic Environmental / Sponsorship Discussion

[freetomeander]

Mobil Sponsorship

Congrats on your trip. I have a couple questions.
So you took Mobil as your title sponsor. What does that mean? They gave you more money than anybody else?
How do you justify traveling to the Arctic under ExxonMobil sponsorship?
ExxonMobil strongly advocates and actively lobbys for oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And you're a environment conscious Tread Lightly Trainer? How do you put those two on the same page?
Oil drilling in the ANWR would be terribly destructive to arctic environment, wildlife and native peoples. If they could, ExxonMobil would drill in every arctic mile you traveled over if there was oil there.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg. pardon the pun. Google ExxonMobil with the words environmental criticism, globalization, Nigeria, third world exploitation, oil profits. etc and explore what you find...if your interested in being more informed.

 

[Ursidae69]

Congrats on your trip. I have a couple questions.
So you took Mobil as your title sponsor. What does that mean? They gave you more money than anybody else?
How do you justify traveling to the Arctic under ExxonMobil sponsorship?
ExxonMobil strongly advocates and actively lobbys for oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And you're a environment conscious Tread Lightly Trainer? How do you put those two on the same page?
Oil drilling in the ANWR would be terribly destructive to arctic environment, wildlife and native peoples. If they could, ExxonMobil would drill in every arctic mile you traveled over if there was oil there.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg. pardon the pun. Google ExxonMobil with the words environmental criticism, globalization, Nigeria, third world exploitation, oil profits. etc and explore what you find...if your interested in being more informed.

Interesting observations. I don't think you can compare the politics of ANWR with Tread Lightly. Tread Lightly was founded to teach drivers how to wheel responsibly, not take a stance on other land use issues such as oil and gas development. I personally don't see it as a conflict of interest at all, and that is coming from a greenie who does not support drilling of anwr. The way I see it, if Exxon/Mobile wants to support this trip that is great. Look at the great natural beauty the guys on the trip have seen and put online and shown the world. If anything, it will help put to rest the idea that the arctic is a barren wasteland, in fact it is a thing of beauty. My 0.02.

 

[seth_js]

The way I see it, if Exxon/Mobile wants to support this trip that is great. Look at the great natural beauty the guys on the trip have seen and put online and shown the world. If anything, it will help put to rest the idea that the arctic is a barren wasteland, in fact it is a thing of beauty. My 0.02.

I'm not taking sides or anything, but I think that is kind of his point. They are taking sponsorship from somebody who wants to destroy that beauty.

 

[pwc]

do I need to point out the irony that I believe they were using Mobil1......a synthetic?

 

[Ursidae69]

I'm not taking sides or anything, but I think that is kind of his point. They are taking sponsorship from somebody who wants to destroy that beauty.

I hear ya, but my point is the money is being put to good use. For instance, lots of good conservation work around the world is funded by corporations that have might have questionable environmental practices. Does that mean the folks doing the work should find funding elsewhere? Maybe, but funding is very limited. Same with this trip I think. If Brady et al. can secure some of the billion dollar profits Exxon/Mobile is making and put it to good use I am all in favor of that.

 

[crawler#976]

IMO

Guys, take the policy/political outta here...

...and celibrate the sucsess of the trip!
_________________

I'll be interested to see/hear how the uber soft BFG's did both from a traction stand point and wear was experianced, and how well the low temp fluids held up to the rigors of extended high heat/long distance driving.

 

[articulate]

do I need to point out the irony that I believe they were using Mobil1......a synthetic?

HA! That was good . . .

 

[Willman]

IMO

Guys, take the policy/political outta here...

...and celibrate the sucsess of the trip!

:iagree:

 

[Scott Brady]

Congrats on your trip. I have a couple questions.

That was a purely inflammatory post. If you had any good intentions in writing it, it would have come in a PM or email so that you could find out the facts of my involvement before attacking me in a public forum.

The sponsorship was from Mobil 1 for synthetic fluids and testing in extreme conditions. Synthetic fluids are principally based on non fossil fuel chemistry, they improve fuel economy and have a longer service life, reducing waste.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The sponsorship was from Mobil 1 for synthetic fluids and testing in extreme conditions. Synthetic fluids are principally based on non fossil fuel chemistry, they improve fuel economy and have a longer service life, reducing waste.

I don't want to really wade too much into this argument, the thread and trip were not about this. It's been lots of fun following it and glad you guys made it back.

OK, anyway, in my very limited chemistry background I've always understood that most synthetic lubricants still fundamentally come from oil production. The difference is really what you call a crude oil base stock and what you don't.

In the case of Group IV oil (the PAOs), the base stock is typically ethylene, which is used to make alpha olefins, which are then refined into polyalphaolefins that are the base stock of these oils. The PAO is 'P'oly 'A'lpha 'O'olefin. Ethylene comes from cracking light hydrocarbons (like propane or methane), it's still an organic.

In the case of Group III oil (like Castrol and Mobil both are), the base stock is usually still methane (at least natural gas, which could be a number of things), just that the process is hydroisomerized GTL rather than using PAO.

Not knowing everything that Scott is privy to from Mobil, it's certainly possible that the lubes he was testing are from a completely different source. For example I don't know that Group V base stock doesn't come from a different source of olefins. I know soybean & palm oil and fish oils are other sources that synthesized base stock can come from. But then there's problem of over cutting, over farming and over fishing. You can't win for losing.

 

[DesertRose]

I hear ya, but my point is the money is being put to good use. For instance, lots of good conservation work around the world is funded by corporations that have might have questionable environmental practices. Does that mean the folks doing the work should find funding elsewhere? Maybe, but funding is very limited. Same with this trip I think. If Brady et al. can secure some of the billion dollar profits Exxon/Mobile is making and put it to good use I am all in favor of that.

As usual Chuck, well-said! You, too, crawler ["Guys, take the policy/political outta here..."]. As someone who has worked in environmental conservation for 20 years, I can guarantee you: all grant money from all foundations used to fund green work can be traced to "dirty" money somewhere. Exxon or Ford Foundation - it all grew from investments that hurt something somewhere.

The key is that we do something good with all things - and to not preach to the choir all the time. Team Arctic from Expeditions West is an environmentally responsible group that is spreading the word about overlanding in an audience that traditionally doesn't give a hoot about conservation. I applaud ExxonMobil for sponsoring them. I may detest their policies - but I drive a truck. I'm not stupid. All life takes life and has a footprint on the planet.

Whew - enough of that.

Besides - I heard that Scott tried to get Hemp Alternative Fuels to be their title sponsor, but the company executives kept forgetting to call him back . . .

 

[RedDog]

This represents the enviro kicker. Many would slag me for driving a Jeep TJ while not knowing that I put about 12,000 km (approx. 7,500 miles) a year on it while I walk and bicycle to the office, market and bank half the year - and go up to a couple weeks at a time in the summer without starting my vehicle.

At the same time, they have no idea that I might pull in off the David Thompson highway (AB #11) into a campsite along Shunda Creek and actually fish a couple beer cans out of the water along the bank which I actually take home for recycle. Putting them in the camp drums would have seen them in a mountain landfill not far removed from the water I removed them from.

Nearly 2/3rds of my annual vehicle mileage likely now represents recreational purposes in the high country. My annual total represents maybe 2 or 3 months of shuttling step kids around day and night when married. My world-wide emissions legal Jeep and I are the least of the environment's concerns.

 

[kcowyo]

I heard that Scott tried to get Hemp Alternative Fuels to be their title sponsor, but the company executives kept forgetting to call him back . . .

:bowdown:

"Gas, grass or ass. Nobody rides for free."

 

[freetomeander]

That was a purely inflammatory post. If you had any good intentions in writing it, it would have come in a PM or email so that you could find out the facts of my involvement before attacking me in a public forum.

The sponsorship was from Mobil 1 for synthetic fluids and testing in extreme conditions. Synthetic fluids are principally based on non fossil fuel chemistry, they improve fuel economy and have a longer service life, reducing waste.

Purely inflammatory? Attacking you? I can only attempt to tell you that was NOT my intention at all!!! It's unfortunate that you see it that way. Yes they were challenging issues and questions but legitmate ones and part of the climate of our time. And a public form is "the" appropriate place because its a public issue. If you travel under that corporate banner, you will enevitably run into such questions.

From what I see on your website you plan to continue your international travels. Good for you! I'm alot older than you and have traveled alot of the world, not in the style you plan to but one still encounters much of the same thing. I can GUARANTEE you that in your future travels you will eventually encounter similar challenges to the ones I posted. If you haven't encountered them thus far, you will. And some may be much more provocative and challenging than what I posted, ESPECIALLY if you travel under a corporate banner and in this day and age of anti-Americanism. IT WILL NOT SERVE YOU WELL IF YOU RESPOND THE WAY YOU HAVE HERE - defensively saying they're inflammatory and accusing you. I suggest that it would serve you well to start practicing a different response here in this public forum. It will serve you well in future foreign places.

Good luck in your future travels.

 

[DesertRose]

:bowdown:

Can't take credit for a good line, kc - last night DesertDouglas and Jonathan and I were having martinis and scotch at our favorite watering hole, discussing this thread . . . and DesertDouglas came out with that line but was too shy to post it. I told him that I had no such compunction, being prone to all sorts of inappropriate and silly comments :jump:

That said, I was also trying to bring levity to this thread which is getting heated.

Freetomeander, I think your original post had some good food for thought, and though you had intended to be a devil's advocate, I think, it came across as a bit too sharp and potentially more like an attack than an invitation to serious discourse. I can't speak to Scott's feelings, but his reaction clearly was one of defensiveness, and I understand why, given the tone, however unintentional. It's very difficult to write clearly about hard subjects!

There are lots and lots of spots on this forum where people are really, really good at discussing sensitive topics without attacking each other - it's unfortunate this one got out of hand.

We all dearly love Expedition Portal and want to see thoughtful, polite discussions rathern than personal problems and the kind of mean-spirited stuff so common on forums such as IH8MUD (which I just went to to look for information on FJ60 diesel conversions and was so turned off by the impolite and downright rude behavior there!).

Perhaps at some point we can all debate the corporate sponsorship - conservation angle in another forum area, with thoughtfulness and in a non-personal way. It's certainly worth discussing!