Are lockers overkill in a large F550 camper? Dana 135 locker? Front True Trac?

[ExplorerTom]

My concern would be the the small pinion gear. Certainly that gearing is required for the tire size and vehicle weight, but care needs to be taken to not shock the driveline. The pinion is going to be a weak link (front and rear). Locking the diff will increase the risk.

A 4.88 ratio on normal sized axles result in small pinion diameters. But I'm betting on these behemoths, a 4.88 pinion is beefier than a 3.55 on an 8.8 axle.

 

[1stDeuce]

I dont see the need, unless (as somebody has mentioned) you are lifting a wheel during your off road excursions.
Only then would you see the benefit.

Kenny is exactly right. If you're not lifting tires, or having problems crossing the truck up all the time and spinning opposite corners, then you don't need lockers. Between your relatively flexy front suspension, and flexy frame, I doubt this is much of a concern.

If you're just thinking "but what if..." I'd suggest two options. A front LSD like a true trac if available will definitely help keep all four spinning, and some brake pressure will "lock" it much more if a tire is getting light. Or, get yourself a winch and large Pull Pal so you can always winch through a rough spot if needed. IMO, the winch is money better spent, as it's useful for all sorts of other things, like moving trees off the trail, moving boulders, and freeing your stuck buddies.

Contrary to what some are saying, my experience is that lockers don't do much at all for sand, unless you're significantly crossing up while on sand. And in snowy conditions, lockers tend to make the truck slide around more than having open diffs. (With an open diff, one tire may spin, but the other anchors the vehicle from sliding sideways if it's slightly off camber, or a crowned road.) With your weight, I doubt snow is much of an issue anyway.

Keep enjoying your truck!!

 

[ExplorerTom]

I agree with this. When you have open diffs on both ends, you only have two wheel drive.

Yep.

And as the OP said in the opening, he's not a wheeler so I doubt he's getting crossed up much and hanging a tire in the air (I think it would be absolutely frightening to see that thing lift a tire). BUT, I'm sure he has found a time or 2 when one wheel has zero traction and therefore gets all of the torque and wheel spin. He does have a factory limited slip but is unsure of how well it works.

I know since the addition of traction devices in my Explorer (Truetracs front/rear), I use next to ZERO wheel spin to get over/through anything and everything. Wheel spin can end abruptly- sometimes with broken parts involved. I think locker in the back at minimum. Use when when you need to, it's open when you don't.

Truetrac thoughts: in the dry they are fantastic. They are invisible in their operation. I just climb over things with no drama the first time- things that would have taken a bunch of wheel spin, maybe a BUMP or 2, some sweat and that uneasy feeling in the pit on my stomach before the Truetracs. In the snow: I'll admit I have the luxury of not needing to drive it in the snow on the street much. The wide and old/dry/hard BFG KOs are pretty lousy on hard pack at street pressures (3 mountain snowflake symbol....... pffffff!) so I don't drive it on the street in the snow much. And when I do, I'm usually not behaving and purposely sliding around all over the place. In the snow on the trail.... they are sometimes better than an open diff. I say "sometimes" because only sometimes do they behave like something other than an open diff. A delicate balance of left foot braking is needing in low traction situations like this. And I haven't driven in enough sand to really comment.

 

[pappawheely]

You don't need to lift a tire to lose traction to a wheel. Maybe others are driving in different conditions than I do. In the desert southwest, there is plenty of sand and silt. When you drive into a siltbed, your momentum gets killed. With open diffs, you will get stuck when your momentum is stopped. Just last week in Parker, I drove in a sandy wash checking a spot. A couple days later I drove to the same spot. My friend got there first and was stuck in the sand. Some fans helped him to get out. When I showed up later, I didn't know he had been stuck. I pulled into the same spot I had driven over days before with no issues and my truck got mired. I got out of the truck because it felt like the front end was locked up. It wasn't, it was sunk in the sand. The front left tire was just spinning; open diff. My limited slip out back was enough to pull me out in reverse. There is no way a couple guys could have pushed me out. I would have had to winch. Having a traction aid is worth it in my opinion.

 

[p nut]

You don't need to lift a tire to lose traction to a wheel. Maybe others are driving in different conditions than I do. In the desert southwest, there is plenty of sand and silt. When you drive into a siltbed, your momentum gets killed. With open diffs, you will get stuck when your momentum is stopped. Just last week in Parker, I drove in a sandy wash checking a spot. A couple days later I drove to the same spot. My friend got there first and was stuck in the sand. Some fans helped him to get out. When I showed up later, I didn't know he had been stuck. I pulled into the same spot I had driven over days before with no issues and my truck got mired. I got out of the truck because it felt like the front end was locked up. It wasn't, it was sunk in the sand. The front left tire was just spinning; open diff. My limited slip out back was enough to pull me out in reverse. There is no way a couple guys could have pushed me out. I would have had to winch. Having a traction aid is worth it in my opinion.

Which the guy has--LSD like you. This probably takes care of 99.9% of the trails he'll be on, I'd imagine. Like someone else said above, a winch takes care of the other .1% and also comes in handy clearing trails and rescues. I just don't think throwing money at locker(s) is the smartest thing here.

 

[Betarocker]

Limited Slips are just that, Limiting. They kinda work when they want to, not when you need them to.

I think the OP needs to look on his axle tag to see what rear axle he has, since the S135 was not offered on the F550 for his model year. It should be either a S110 or S130. The Super 60 in the front has an option for almost all types of differentials.

 

[Ozymandias]

I can tell by real experience that a Truetrac has absolutely no downside used in winter conditions, I do every year long journey travels to the polarcircle in wintertime here in Europe and never ever had any influence in driving manners. Not even on plain ice like the winterroads up there.

My Ram has Front and Rear Truetracs. Best buy ever for a Travelvehicle.
Had selectable Lockers in the Past and still have in my vehicle at work.

 

[MrWesson]

Create a poll.

My vote is to leave it be or limited slip in the rear.

Its not a crawler and lockers typically are most useful when kicking up a tire.. Something that might have that rig laying on it's side.

 

[highlandercj-7]

IMHO if that winch bumper is empty, buy a winch first. Having gotten into issues with heavy vehicles stuck it's the best line of defense. For the locker question: My Ram 2500 is a PIG with open diffs in the rain let alone off road. The lifting a tire comments are irrelevant, more tires turning are always a good thing. Heavy trucks are pigs off road to begin with let alone with only two wheels driving them. My truck nearly got stuck in wet grass at the farm. I wish I opted for a Power Wagon, lest if the lockers didn't drive it through the winch would have and not tore up the field. The problem with large trucks is locker options available, not weather or not to do it. (I am begging Loc-rite to build a AAM locker) I prefer full time locker such as a Detroit in the rear, there is never a need to turn it off, it's always there when you need it. Of course a selectable is best up front when you want to be able to steer it easier. If I had the LSD in the rear I would go with a selectable front locker first and the winch. Then see how it does.

 

[mbenne4]

I've got an f550 based camper. Crew Cab, 60" CA, weighs 15k wet. Factory Limited slip in the rear. We have a high articulation coil spring rear suspension conversion, and are running big kings with hydraulic bumpstops in all four corners.

Overall we are similar sized to an earthroamer, but a few k lighter. We aren't wheelers at all, but we do really like to get out to remote beaches to surf and Heather always wants to go down the small road to get away from other campers.

Should we consider lockers, or adding a limited slip to the front? I've been told we can't add lockers to the Dana 135 in the rear, but haven't researched it thoroughly. We also make trips to Alaska and in the snow, so I worry about the Detroit back there anyways, which I believe would be the only option if any. I'm guessing the factory limited slip back there is only marginally better than an open diff?

Suggestions?

I suggest bridging ladders or traction mats specced for a vehicle of your weight.

Awesome looking rig, btw.

 

[S2DM]

Kenny is exactly right. If you're not lifting tires, or having problems crossing the truck up all the time and spinning opposite corners, they you don't need lockers. Between your relatively flexy front suspension, and flexy frame, I doubt this is much of a concern.

If you're just thinking "but what if..." I'd suggest two options. A front LSD like a true trac if available will definitely help keep all four spinning, and some brake pressure will "lock" it much more if a tire is getting light. Or, get yourself a winch and large Pull Pal so you can always winch through a rough spot if needed. IMO, the winch is money better spent, as it's useful for all sorts of other things, like moving trees off the trail, moving boulders, and freeing your stuck buddies.

Contrary to what some are saying, my experience is that lockers don't do much at all for sand, unless you're significantly crossing up while on sand. And in snowy conditions, lockers tend to make the truck slide around more than having open diffs. (With an open diff, one tire may spin, but the other anchors the vehicle from sliding sideways if it's slightly off camber, or a crowned road.) With your weight, I doubt snow is much of an issue anyway.

Keep enjoying your truck!!

You think the warn 16.5TI winch would do the job, if using a snatch block in any tough conditions, or should I move to the superwinch talon 18k? I'm leaning towards winch, pull pal, max tracks and big bubba recovery rope for my gear to start and adding a locker if I see the need after some testing.

So far I've been impressed with the amount of traction the rig has in 4low. As mentioned, the frame is flexy, I've also got a coil spring rear suspension conversion which gets my travel up to 12" from 4", so the combo of weight, flex and articulation tends to keep wheels on the ground and loaded.


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[Ozymandias]

Yeah, there are a lot of trees on sandy beaches to work as a winch point.

 

[calicamper]

15k machine sitting on tires? Thats why side by sides and dirt bikes are easily trailered.
No amount of recovery gear or lockers fixes ground to soft to support 15k. Unless your riding on tracks like a tank.
Most people I know with heavy rigs knowingly avoid ground that will sink their rig. Plenty of great places are out there to visit with ground firm enough for his truck. Add the weight and ability to keep tires on the ground? Power and risk of breaking some type of weak link in getting power to the ground is probably a bigger risk.

I say solid ladders that can handle that weight, winch that is strong enough to assist, and careful use of power to drive wheels gets it done. Such a cool machine, why not use a dirt bike for stuff that could really mess up a big heavy rig?

 

[S2DM]

15k machine sitting on tires? Thats why side by sides and dirt bikes are easily trailered.
No amount of recovery gear or lockers fixes ground to soft to support 15k. Unless your riding on tracks like a tank.
Most people I know with heavy rigs knowingly avoid ground that will sink their rig. Plenty of great places are out there to visit with ground firm enough for his truck. Add the weight and ability to keep tires on the ground? Power and risk of breaking some type of weak link in getting power to the ground is probably a bigger risk.

I say solid ladders that can handle that weight, winch that is strong enough to assist, and careful use of power to drive wheels gets it done. Such a cool machine, why not use a dirt bike for stuff that could really mess up a big heavy rig?

It's not pictured here, but we have an outdoor kitchen sitting beneath a spare tire and motorcycle lift in the back, which is close to 1000 of our lbs. We aren't planning on getting crazy with the rig, just trying to learn more and see what it is capable of. We will use the cycle for the rest which is why we spent the time on the lift system.

We will also carry a pull pal or two for sand and a winch. Our trips are primarily to Baja and Central America so we'd like to maximize sand capability.



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[racer3822]

From what I hear you have the best tires for sand too and the weight with the G275's. I bought the Talon winch for my setup from Summit. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPW-1618201

Couple times I've been stuck an 18k would have done it. Got stuck at Pismo and even another truck to winch to would have helped me at least get the axle off the sand to allow forward motion under power. Ended up getting a tow which worked.

Basically wanted the biggest winch I could find that wasn't hydraulic! Not to mention the Talon came with Synthetic line which I did find any any 'name brand' winch above 18k. Mounted it under my rear bumper as usually I'm trying to get back where I came from when I get stuck.

Not sure I agree with calicamper, a trailer limits were you can go. I love putting bikes on racks even with the added weight. Welded this one up for a quick trip I did just to see how I liked to put the TW200 on the front. Didn't really like it that much so its going to be used for the rear of another application but it was a good test!




Come to think about it a bike mount to your front help solve some of your weight distribution problems j/k j/k, but yeah, wouldn't recommend it. Blocks radiator flow and just isn't that great to have on the front for driving around. Not to mention I wouldn't take it offroad either as the front hitch I was using isn't rated for more than 500 lbs tongue weight and the way this was I was probably at limit.