ARRGGGHHH!!! Decisions about the JK or FJ.

[StumpXJ]

So, in a nutshell, when Toyota buys back my 98 Taco because of the frame rust issue, I am going to be needing a new vehicle. I am on the fence about two vehicles, the 08 Toyota FJ Cruiser, and the 08 Rubicon.

Because we are over here in Germany, we are limited to buying what is offered at the Military/US car sales places. They sell both Toyota and Jeep (among other vehicles), but with Toyota's, you buy what they have, with no ability to change options etc. The Jeeps, you can order to suit.

So, I can get a FJ with the rear E-locker, but thats about it. It has fancy alloy wheels that I could care less about, Street tires which would have to be replaced with MT's asap, and I cant get some of the stuff I would want.

Or, I can get a JK with 32"BFG MT's, Front AND rear Lockers, solid front axle, any options/colors I wanted, and rediculous amounts of aftermarket support.

Whats my problem? I cant decide which to get. Its seems like it would be a no brainer and go with the Jeep. But, I have been very happy with Toyota in the past, and I am not sure if I am ready to take the plunge and become a "Jeep guy". I dont know much about Jeeps, and the amount of aftermarket support is a bit overwhelming. My toyota, I know inside and out, and I am familiar with most of the aftermarket stuff available.

Someone guide me or talk some sense into me, or tell me im an idiot. I realize this is the Jeep forum and thus the opinions may be biased, but I am looking for guidance here....

Did anyone get a 2 door and wish they had gotten the 4 door? or Vice Versa?

~James

 

[TheGillz]

We looked at JK 4-door, FJ, and X-terra's when we were getting our new car.

For us the X-terra was ruled out because of the back seat entry, way to cramped for a vehicle of that size, the back cargo area was the largest, but with a newfoundland taking up residence there, we figured on the back being just the dogs area, we figured while nice for her, a waist for us. They seemed to make a huge cargo area at the expence of the rear passengers.

FJ had HORRIBLE blind spots and the back windows didn't roll down IIRC. No way that will fly with two young girls. The other thing that we didn't like about the FJ, is that you can't get one and option it up, it seemed that it was all options or nothing. And we didn't have over 30k to spend, our budget was 25k.

We ended up loving our JK 4 door X model. Perfect room in the back for the dog, back seats for the kids, and front for us, there are compromises, not much storage especially up front. No room for "trinkets and trash" unless you are handy and make a mount for everything. But there is this also:

ITS A FREAKING CONVERTABLE!!!:luxhello: :luxhello:

The aftermarket is expansive, but don't take that as overwhelming, it keeps prices down and quality up! I can't recomend them highly enough....

 

[shane4x4]

As a former Jeep owner I can sympathize with you. For me, the major factor is build quality. My FJ is not absolutely perfect, but it's solid and I'm not worried about it developing chronic issues down the road. I've owned 4 jeeps in the past (3 XJ's & 1 ZJ), and they all developed chronic maintenance issues after about 75K miles.

What I really like about the FJ:
-Quality
-VERY good aftermarket support
-The community
-It is truly multi-purpose

Things that the Rubi has over the FJ
-SFA (for SUPER serious rock crawling)
-A little more cargo room in the Unlimited
-Front locker

Issues I have with the Rubi
-Quality
-It's underpowered
-Less of a multi-purpose vehicle
-The community is HUGE & at least 50% are not cool
-Great aftermarket support, but really TOO many vendors

Hope this helps a little, I'm sure others will have helpful comments as well.

Good luck!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Think about how long you're gonna own this truck. You are over in Germany for a few years, but will be back in the US eventually, right? So you get the Jeep and it's got a couple of things you want right now and that's fine. The FJC has lots and lots of aftermarket, too. But my idea of ownership seems to be a little different than average. When I look for a car, I think decades and so I'm not too worried about the immediate satisfaction and wonder which truck will still be with me in 10 years. But your Taco with the frame issues, yeah I'd probably second guess myself.

Seems to me that the e-locker is the main thing to get and just about everything else is gonna be ARB, All Pro, Budbuilt and whatever. Wheels, I like the look of stock steels, but the alloys would not bother me (they are lighter, which is good, and I run American Racing alloys anyway). Oh, I guess I would want the stick shift instead of the auto, too. But otherwise I'd have guessed in both the Jeep and Toyota you'll end up using aftermarket bits or knowing you, it'll be fabbed up stuff. Optional and subjective stuff like body color, which radio, towing package, etc., IMHO I couldn't really care too much. White is good, but blue, red, green, black, whatever. Oh, I hate leather seats, but that's not a problem on either of these trucks. I prefer crank windows and manual locks, but I'm not sure you can get stuff like that anymore in cars.

You know as well as I do, the Trail Teams have gotten stock FJ Cruisers (with BFG ATs, sliders and maybe a skid plate as non-factory options) through the Rubicon, Tellico, Golden Spike. They are plenty capable.

 

[Scott Brady]

I have spent a lot of time with both, including very technical terrain. I have driven JKs over the Rubicon, FJs in Moab, Baja with the FJ, etc.

Here is my opinion: Remember, no one vehicle is perfect. Perfect for you maybe, but never perfect for everyone, so these are just my thoughts, based on my filter of vehicle expectations.

FJ- Drives like a car on the road, reliable and has good trail performance. Ergonomics, visibility and odd styling (side and rear) kills it for me.

Pros:
1. Amazing road ride and drive. Quiet.
2. Great motor. Only lists 30 more hp than the Jeep, but feels like 50 more
3. Very little shudder and good handling at speed in the dirt.
4. Typical Toyota quality and reliability

Cons:
1. "what were they thinking" visibility
2. Frame, body mount and suspension weaknesses
3. Coffin-like in the rear passenger area
4. A wheel lifter on the trail
5. Ground clearance is not on par with previous gen Tacomas and 4Runners

JK 4-Door- The Jeep has fully evolved. It has the road comfort of a Grand Cherokee and is the most trail capable vehicle ever sold in North America.

Pros:
1. Class-leading trail performance
2. Extremely stable, with class-leading articulation
3. Solid front and rear D44 axles with locking differentials
4. Great visibility, open, bright interior
5. 4:1 Transfer-case, front swaybar disconnect and 32" tires from the factory
6. A major improvement on fit-finish and quality

Cons:
1. "What were they thinking" motor. Actually, it drives just like a 3.4 Tacoma motor, but a little harsh and flat at the higher revs.
2. 4.10:1 axle gearing is not low enough for the 32" tires (I have already swapped to 5:13)
3. No diesel
4. Ride and drive is much more truck-like
5. There are a lot of knuckleheads that drive Jeeps (higher percentage of knuckleheadedness than Land Rover or Toyota). I believe the JK community will split, and be different/ better. There are a lot of JK specific forums now and the feel is a lot better.

I think the reliability concerns are mostly a mute point now, as you can buy the Jeep and get a lifetime warranty. I also researched the Jeeps at length (and queried my engineering contacts at Jeep) regarding reliability. All indications are that the Merc. ownership greatly improved quality and reliability. Time will tell...

 

[DaveInDenver]

2. Frame, body mount and suspension weaknesses

Can you expand on this? The FJC is based on the Prado chassis and I have heard about the body ripping in the crumple zone. But since it shares a platform with the 4th gen 4Runner and 2nd gen Tacoma, I'd be interested in hearing the story here. I was not aware there is a fundamental frame or suspension issue with the 120 platform.

All indications are that the Merc. ownership greatly improved quality and reliability

I'd have hoped that MB ownership would raise the level of QA, but do you think that with the sale to Cerberus and any subsequent money or re-org issues that quality and design might stagnate or revert back to pre-German ownership days? How does the departure of Mike Donoughe potentially affect their body-on-frame platforms development?

 

[WFTW]

It would help to know what your intentions are with the vehicle. Will you be racing across the desert, enjoying backroad drives through the mountains, mudding, rock crawling, or a combination of those?

While I like the FJs, and even considered buying one for about a whole two minutes, I went with the JK for one major reason (and a mess of little ones). That major reason was flexibility.

There are SO many things you can do to a JK. The aftermarket for Jeeps is probably the most vast of any vehicle. If that worries you, don't let it. There are a plethera of forums on the internet to help you sort out which brands are better than others. While you say you are familiar with the Toyotas but not with Jeeps, I'd imagine a Jeep wouldn't be too difficult for you...it's still a motor vehicle, has an engine, wheels, axles, brakes, shocks, etc...you'll figure it out.

Let me ask you this...have you ever driven a Jeep with the top and doors off? If not, do so...your decision will be made.

 

[Scott Brady]

Can you expand on this? The FJC is based on the Prado chassis and I have heard about the body ripping in the crumple zone. But since it shares a platform with the 4th gen 4Runner and 2nd gen Tacoma, I'd be interested in hearing the story here. I was not aware there is a fundamental frame or suspension issue with the 120 platform.

I'd have hoped that MB ownership would raise the level of QA, but do you think that with the sale to Cerberus and any subsequent money or re-org issues that quality and design might stagnate or revert back to pre-German ownership days? How does the departure of Mike Donoughe potentially affect their body-on-frame platforms development?

Yes, the body ripping due to crumple-zone frame flex, the knuckles need to be reinforced for any hard use (they will bend). Body mount interference with any tire size over stock.

It is hard to say on quality moving forward, but Toyota is killing everyone because of their quality. So, that forces all others to step that up, or die...

It is impossible to know the future of the Wrangler, though this one will be around for at least another 4-5 years. They sell the heck out of these Wranglers, so I do not expect Jeep to mess with a good thing.

 

[Azlugz]

As a former Jeep owner I can sympathize with you. For me, the major factor is build quality. My FJ is not absolutely perfect, but it's solid and I'm not worried about it developing chronic issues down the road. I've owned 4 jeeps in the past (3 XJ's & 1 ZJ), and they all developed chronic maintenance issues after about 75K miles.

What I really like about the FJ:
-Quality
-VERY good aftermarket support
-The community
-It is truly multi-purpose

Things that the Rubi has over the FJ
-SFA (for SUPER serious rock crawling)
-A little more cargo room in the Unlimited
-Front locker

Issues I have with the Rubi
-Quality
-It's underpowered
-Less of a multi-purpose vehicle
-The community is HUGE & at least 50% are not cool
-Great aftermarket support, but really TOO many vendors

Hope this helps a little, I'm sure others will have helpful comments as well.

Good luck!

So, you have no issues with the FJ....

As for the 50% uncool in the Jeep world, have you not for the same in the Toy world, I see notheing to do with the brand here and all to do with the people involed and there are bad on both sides......yes, I am a Jeep guy but a lot of my friends drive toys and I can out wheel them...in certian spots, but they out wheel me in others, its a give and take. I also know a group of people drive JK's from stok to modded and all are having great luck. This choice should really come down to what you are going to do with it. If you are going to rock crawl it hard, the jeep has the solid axle and that makes it easier to mod as a crawler where the IFS of the Toy is a lot weaker, but if you want to Baja, again the Jeep has a solid axle and this is NOT good for high speed bumps where the Toy's IFS can be set up in a long travel system and handle it great.

the advice should be based on the need, not the class of other drivers in the brand and not on what someone else drives in a different situation.

 

[StumpXJ]

Guys, these post's remind why I love it here.. Thanks a ton for the input, and remaining civilized.

However, my Wife and I Just got back from dinner, and had quite a long/involved discussion about some things. Allow me to introduce "plan C"

One of the main reasons we came to Germany with her job is so we could pay off all of our debts, and save some money, among other obvious things (such as living in Europe mortgage free and being able to travel this great area at will). We have been here for 2.5 years already, and have 2.5 more to go before we head back to the States. That being said, our plans to be debt free and have a nice chunk in saving is completely doable, but MUCH harder if we throw another 20 thou (about what I would need to borrow to get either vehicle) of debt in our way. Here is the optional plan, mentioned by my wife I should add.

In the US, we have a bought and paid for 1996 Jeep XJ. We decided to not sell that vehicle before coming here so we would have a vehicle to drive when we come home to visit. This has proved to work very well for us, except the burden of upkeep, insurance and taxes has been put on my in-laws while we are here. (we sold the Jeep to them for $1.00 so they could register it as their own) Its a 4.0L 4X4, automatic, with 170,000 very well maintained miles. I have performed all of the service on this vehicle since it had about 45,000 miles, and all of the ancillary equipment replaced recently (starter, alternator, AC comp., upgraded aftermarket radiator etc.) Basically this thing runs like a top, and I would have no worries about taking it cross-country. It is bone stock, but I think it would provide a nice platform to build off of. I am not certain, but I think this year is one of the "better" years of XJ correct?

Basically, after Toyota buys back my Tacoma, I will have about 8 grand to play with. My Wife has given me "permission" to use this money to:

1. Have the XJ shipped over here (about $2,000-$2,500)
2. Modify the heck out of it how I want done (using the remainder of the cash, about 6 grand)


I am the type who will build my own bumpers and armor, and I will be keeping all of my other wheeling stuff from my current taco (winch, lights, recovery stuff, fridge, etc.)

I am thinking I can use the majority of the money for a lift, Tires/wheels, materials to build new armor, lockers/gears, and maybe have enough left over for a RTT. ( )

After she mentioned this, I was thinking I would have no problem "beating" on this jeep, but I think I would have some reservations about sending a new JK or FJ through the woods and rocks.

I am almost 30 years old, and I am trying (for the life of me) to do the "right/sensible" thing here.

Any thoughts?

 

[TheGillz]

That sounds like a great plan and you have a smart woman, take advantage of her sensibilities, she obviously cares about letting you do things you love, and I think being able to build up a reliable XJ sounds like a blast. I say plan C works out great!

 

[StumpXJ]

James' smart woman has hijacked his account and agrees with you

~Meghan (the Wife)

 

[adrenaline503]

I think XJs are a great platform, I had a 96 and the only problems I had were ones caused by my poor judgment. Building an XJ is way cheap, there are tons of stuff out there.

 

[TheGillz]

James' smart woman has hijacked his account and agrees with you

~Meghan (the Wife)

:xxrotflma

I am suffering from the same affliction ( :violent-smiley-031: ) err, I mean....:sunflower

I truly have a wife worthy of :bowdown:

:hehe: :suning:

 

[StumpXJ]

I need to learn to log out more...LOL.

So, what are some of the disadvantages to the XJ? Only thing I can think of is maybe the Unibody. I see plenty of them being wheeled, so it cant be that big of a problem??

The 4.0Liter straight 6 is a torque monster as far as I can tell, and has been pretty dang reliable. I know there were some issues with the oil leaks, possibly rear main??

The only real "problem" we had with thus far was overheating fairly easily, but we fixed that (I think) with a huge aftermarket 4 row radiator, forgot who makes it, but it had a huge effect on cooling.

Anything else? (nothing like Hi-jacking my own thread.)

~James