Astro AWD "Stroverlander"

[Herbie]

Great work, as always. Apparently I missed the AWD->RWD steering shaft upgrade in the "tribal knowledge". I like that one. I may want to revisit moving from a 2" to a 3" puck lift, since I'd like to use as little torsion-bar preload as possible.

'Course there's all the hoses and other bits to watch out for as well, so...

 

[Stroverlander]

Wow! Thank you so much for documenting all of your efforts, the documenting probably took as much work as the actual hands on work. I'm seriously considering buying an Astro AWD and doing the usual lift kit, wheels, tires, etc, not to mention all the deferred maint type items you've been busy on. Your post will save countless hours for folks like me.

I posted on ASV.org (catching on to the lingo is half the battle!) asking about room in the cargo area, got some great info, somehow found this thread during my late night internet wanderings. Learning, learning, learning.

And all of your work looks just like what I've been doing to my '88 928 over the years. I just can't put a filthy or rusty part back on, nor can I resist the "while I am in there" repairs. Takes extra time now but pays off big time later, and for resale too of course. Here's my kid helping me out with getting a fresh coat of paint on my brake calipers. She's quiet a bit bigger now. Wow, time flies.

Nice work, and again, thanks. -Ed

Ps: thanks for the reminder on the Evapo-Rust! I keep forgetting I want to get some and try it out.

You're welcome, good to hear that it is indeed useful/helpful! Hope you end up with an Astro AWD so we get to see what you decide to do with it, good luck with purchase.

The documentation isn't too bad as long as I keep up with it. Once again though, I find myself a bit behind on updating some more recent repairs and modifications, mostly involving chasing some play/wander and general loose feel in steering/suspension. Anyway, your post has spurred me on a bit to get back at it, so thanks!

It's great you get your daughter involved and helping out too, they do grow up quickly that's for sure!

Definitely give the Evapo-Rust a try. I was skeptical at first but works so well that it's become another frequently used workshop tool.

 

[Stroverlander]

Great work, as always. Apparently I missed the AWD->RWD steering shaft upgrade in the "tribal knowledge". I like that one. I may want to revisit moving from a 2" to a 3" puck lift, since I'd like to use as little torsion-bar preload as possible.

'Course there's all the hoses and other bits to watch out for as well, so...

Thanks Herbie. The steering shaft swap was quite a bit easier than I thought it was going to be so that was a nice bonus.

I was sort of wondering whether anyone thought the 3" body lift was a reasonable move or not. I have yet to experience any ill effects from the additional body lift, with the polyurethane bushing the van feels tighter and more composed than previously. The p/s lines and pump were leaking anyway so was worthwhile to spend the extra time fitting longer lines and modifying them wasn't nearly as frustrating as I thought it was going to be.

I kept the 2" lift spacers and hardware handy thinking I would swap back if I didn't like the 3" body lift but so far I have no plans to do so.

 

[Herbie]

I was sort of wondering whether anyone thought the 3" body lift was a reasonable move or not.

I'm not the expert, but from what I've read, you're on the edge, but probably OK. Around 3" is where people start to get nervous about the length of the bolts and the leverage the body can exert upon them. At 4"+ everybody says welded tubes are the only way to go, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus at 3", partially because 2" is easy and 3"+ requires all the extra little things you've had to do, and 4" requires so much MORE work.

Personally, I hope it works out great.

One last note: Even with my ~1.5" to 2" of torsion key lift, I think the CV angles are acceptable. I've seen much more extreme angles on all the "bro trucks" around SoCal, and those guys seem to be OK. Generally, it appears the primary concern for us is the idler arms (since those are high-failure items anyhow). I'm keeping an eye on mine (and a pair of moog replacements on-hand), but I'm also spending a lot of time looking at pictures online trying to see if there's a way to parts-bin swap or otherwise re-engineer that linkage to reduce those angles, with or without a torsion lift in place.

 

[Stroverlander]

That seems to be the consensus from what I've researched on body lift as well.

Eventually I'd like to refinish the subframe and also use that opportunity to weld in lift spacers to make the body lift permanent while utilizing stock length hardware. The only difference I notice is occasionally catching a foot on the step while getting in, haha! It's all just part of the process of figuring out what works best for my needs I suppose (and maybe a little bit of therapy tinkering with the van too). :sombrero:

I agree about the 2" body lift limit being pretty much dead simple with hardly any additional work versus anything over that.

Sounds like we're on the same page with similar amounts of cv angle as I haven't yet reduced the amount of torsion lift with the 3" body lift. That and idler arm life somewhat touches on what I've been working on with my steering/suspension components and so I'll try and get that stuff compiled and posted here soon. Glad to hear you're looking into other options there as well!

Don't get too excited though as I haven't attempted anything too drastic, just sort of trying to adjust and fine tune some things to see if any improvement can be made.

 

[c.zhou57]

Hey, Herbie & Strover -

I was wondering if you guys have explored a diff drop to help relieve the CV/driveline angles? For the idlers I have read somewhere (I think AS.com?) that folks were using parts of old idlers as a spacer. I think Strover is experimenting with this?

 

[Buddha.]

I'm not the expert, but from what I've read, you're on the edge, but probably OK. Around 3" is where people start to get nervous about the length of the bolts and the leverage the body can exert upon them. At 4"+ everybody says welded tubes are the only way to go, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus at 3", partially because 2" is easy and 3"+ requires all the extra little things you've had to do, and 4" requires so much MORE work.

Personally, I hope it works out great.

One last note: Even with my ~1.5" to 2" of torsion key lift, I think the CV angles are acceptable. I've seen much more extreme angles on all the "bro trucks" around SoCal, and those guys seem to be OK. Generally, it appears the primary concern for us is the idler arms (since those are high-failure items anyhow). I'm keeping an eye on mine (and a pair of moog replacements on-hand), but I'm also spending a lot of time looking at pictures online trying to see if there's a way to parts-bin swap or otherwise re-engineer that linkage to reduce those angles, with or without a torsion lift in place.

It doesn't change the angle but some of the s10 guys adapt the idler from a 3/4 ton truck for added beef. The bigger unit is bent to line up correctly. Your re not the first one to try and improve Chevy ifs steering.

 

[Stroverlander]

Hey, Herbie & Strover -

I was wondering if you guys have explored a diff drop to help relieve the CV/driveline angles? For the idlers I have read somewhere (I think AS.com?) that folks were using parts of old idlers as a spacer. I think Strover is experimenting with this?

Hi c.zhou57, I have looked into it and poked around some when I replaced the oil pan gasket and had the front diff dropped down out of the way. For the amount of torsion lift I have on stock keys, not sure it's worth modifying the front diff.

Yes, I modified a pair of idler arms for spacer material by separating the frame mount from idler by removing the large nut and tapping/pressing the two halves apart. I cut apart the frame mount with a grinder and cut-off wheel for the spacer portion. I used the idler arms as a starting point for spacer material since I already had them on hand, so was cheap and relatively easy.

The spacers are approximately 1"/25mm and stock hardware is 12x1.75x37mm so went with new 12x1.75x60mm 10.9 hardware. The idea is that the spacers drop the idlers down and relaxes the angle on the idlers/steering relay link/tie-rods a bit.

SilverBullet1997 on A/S actually got me re-started on this again as he posted about replacing his idler arms and using spacers. After having theorized for so long, figured it was a good time to try since I was replacing idler arms anyway. I believe he went with 2" spacers and longer hardware which seems like quite a lot but his van does has lift torsion keys so probably more lift/angle than my van. I haven't seen any close-up photos of his spacer setup. Maybe he'll read this and post something, or perhaps he's too busy rescuing a few more stuck vehicles from the incoming tide! :snorkel:

It doesn't change the angle but some of the s10 guys adapt the idler from a 3/4 ton truck for added beef. The bigger unit is bent to line up correctly. Your re not the first one to try and improve Chevy ifs steering.

With the idler arm upgrade for S10, it looks like load gets transferred to the frame mount area which wallows out mounting holes for the idlers from twisting/flex (thin frame) and requires some fabrication/bracing around the idler mounts to help prevent this.

 

[Stroverlander]

Inspected the idler arms and spacers so a few photos installed.

I cleaned/chased the idler arm frame mount threads on the driver's side due to the bolts not wanting to easily start threading. All good now.

 

[Buddha.]

Looks good.

 

[nobodyhome]

Hey Stroverlander, just starting on a build and thought I would say thank you for all this info. Between yourself, T.Low, Herbie and a couple others, I found enough info and inspiration to tackle an Astro Overlander. Looking forward to more updates and sharing ideas.
:victory:

 

[Stroverlander]

You're welcome and always great to see another Astro overlander project in the works! :safari-rig:

 

[nobodyhome]

Love the encouraging words, had a different experience on another website, which is why I came to this one.
Should I start a build thread being so new to it all? I caught flak for that on the other site.

 

[Stroverlander]

Build threads are always nice to see the different ideas everyone comes up with.

 

[xterm.jc]

I've read your entire thread and I decided to register on expedition portal today is my first day So I'm new here I have a 97 lt awd that I've had for a couple years now and I've just started tinkering on. Just got back from a 1500 mile round trip to PA in snow and sleet. The van performed great! Hauling the wife and two kids and all luggage/toys lol. I am looking into lifting it I am looking at the journeys and the olv kits but I'm torn on how high to go. and I'm also going to be replacing the ball joints and engine and Trans mounts because my engine is also pretty much sitting on my tc and bbaljoints need to be done . Sorry about my bad punctuation and probably grammar. I'm just a redneck from Tennessee lol. great detailed write up!!!