Automatic lockers

[01tundra]

Great example. Thanks.
Reliability is at the top of my list of reasons to lean away from the driver controlled units.

Thanks.

Been running ARB's in both ends of my Tundra in three complete different axle sets for the past 9 yrs (six different ARB's) and have yet to have a locker failure.......have about 80k worth of miles on ARB's now...........so don't always believe the hype

I drive my rig coast to coast and wheel it like I stole it and lockers failure is the last thing on my mind.

I do carry a spare solenoid and some air line in my parts bag just in case, but that's a small price to pay for having total control of your differentials IMO.

I've also ran Lock-Rights, No-Slips, and Detroits in past vehicles and don't have anything bad to say about any of them. All of these were in daily drivers as well, you just have to adapt a little different driving style, but once you're used to it you don't give it a second thought.

If I had my choice, I'd run ARB's hands down for any application, the controllability and reliability are second to none.

 

[I Leak Oil]

My IIa has ARB's front and rear. Not sure if your rover is a SWB or LWB but either way the locker does push quite a bit when trying to steer in the slick stuff. Probably no more than any other vehicle would but as you know the series truck already has a poor turning radius. Mine's a SWB and it's most certainly squirrly on snowy roads. Nothing you wouldn't get used to though. I've had no issues with reliability with the ARB's so the reliability issue is a non issue for me. I have friends with detroits in their rovers and their pleased with them also. It's really more of a personal choice and since it's your truck you can do what you want with it. There are no deal breakers either way.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I know it's not 100% on-point but I have had problems with "automatic" LSDs and for that reason I would avoid an automatic locker.

Problem 1: Christmas Eve, 1998: Driving to Dad's house in my 1990 Montero with a rear LSD. Intermittent patches of snow and ice on the road, but not enough to be in 4wd. I turned a corner at a relatively slow speed on a patch of packed snow (~15 mph) and the vehicle would not recover from the turn - the rear end just lazily kept on swinging around until my right front fender struck the rear quarter panel of a parked truck (that belonged to a Fort Collins cop. :Wow1: ) Damage to both vehicles was minimal but for that moment I was completely out of control.

Problem 2: Circa Feb-March, 2001: Living in Laramie, WY, with a 2wd Ford Ranger with an Auburn Automatic LSD, driving down a busy street (Grand Ave, right in front of the football stadium) without warning my rear end lost traction and swung around, turning me a complete 180 degrees. Fortunately, traffic was light so I didn't hit anyone. There were no sudden moves, turns, or brakes that initiated it, this happened with no warning.

It wasn't until years later reading about other stories of automatic LSDs and lockers activating at inappropriate times that I caught on that these two incidents were possibly caused by my automatic LSD. Can't say for sure but FWIW I have not owned an LSD equipped vehicle since and I have had no similar problems despite driving many miles on slick/snowpacked surfaces.

I think if I lived in the Sun Belt and never drove on low-traction surfaces at highway speeds I might be OK with an automatic locker or LSD but living in CO I think I'm better off with a selectable locker that I only use off-road, and open diffs the rest of the time.

 

[ipgregory]

Hi Steve,

Not sure if you can get the Kaisers for a Series Diff yet. They don't list them.

Contact JP Ledermann or Kurt Able at Expeditioneers (US Ditstributor) www.expeditioneers.com.

At the Expo, the Kaiser guys where talking about a 2-3 month time frame to have new applications in production from having a sample diff to work from. Or something like that.

Thanks

Ian

 

[MojaveLR3]

Been running ARB's in both ends of my Tundra in three complete different axle sets for the past 9 yrs (six different ARB's) and have yet to have a locker failure.......have about 80k worth of miles on ARB's now...........so don't always believe the hype

I drive my rig coast to coast and wheel it like I stole it and lockers failure is the last thing on my mind.

I do carry a spare solenoid and some air line in my parts bag just in case, but that's a small price to pay for having total control of your differentials IMO.

I've also ran Lock-Rights, No-Slips, and Detroits in past vehicles and don't have anything bad to say about any of them. All of these were in daily drivers as well, you just have to adapt a little different driving style, but once you're used to it you don't give it a second thought.

If I had my choice, I'd run ARB's hands down for any application, the controllability and reliability are second to none.

My IIa has ARB's front and rear. Not sure if your rover is a SWB or LWB but either way the locker does push quite a bit when trying to steer in the slick stuff. Probably no more than any other vehicle would but as you know the series truck already has a poor turning radius. Mine's a SWB and it's most certainly squirrly on snowy roads. Nothing you wouldn't get used to though. I've had no issues with reliability with the ARB's so the reliability issue is a non issue for me. I have friends with detroits in their rovers and their pleased with them also. It's really more of a personal choice and since it's your truck you can do what you want with it. There are no deal breakers either way.

Thanks guys.

For sure another reason that I threw this out to the Portal is because it IS so easy to get caught up in all of the hype and mis-information that is so prevelent on the web. People seldom post up about how well their equipment is working. Once something fails or disappoints however, it's all over the web.

Thanks for keeping it balanced.

 

[MojaveLR3]

"automatic LSDs and lockers activating at inappropriate times"

Thanks for the input Martinjmpr. Your examples illustrate the very situations that would normally keep me away from automatic lockers.

This is exactly where the Kaiser units impress me. They cannot activate at an inappropriate time since they are already locked. There can be no slamming, jerking, jumping etc. caused by a typical auto-locker shifting into locked mode. The Kaisers unlock whichever wheel wishes to freewheel due to contact with the surface. (they are designed so that one wheel is always driven through the diff. Only one wheel is ever allowed to be in freewheel mode)

I'm not saying that the Kaiser design and operating characteristics solve all problems associated with lockers, and I'm not saying that their design doesn't create new issues to deal with. I am saying that it is an interesting approach and I wanted to see what the rest of you guys thought about it.

 

[MojaveLR3]

Hi Steve,

Not sure if you can get the Kaisers for a Series Diff yet. They don't list them.

Contact JP Ledermann or Kurt Able at Expeditioneers (US Ditstributor) www.expeditioneers.com.

At the Expo, the Kaiser guys where talking about a 2-3 month time frame to have new applications in production from having a sample diff to work from. Or something like that.

Thanks

Ian

For the install I would also be using heavy duty 24 spline axles. Am I wrong that the Defender units would drop right in?

 

[CA-RJ]

I believe that in this case, the driver got what was coming to him. :Wow1:

I'm confused. How did the driver get what was coming to him? This was an example of why an auto locker is not desirable.

 

[charlieaarons]

All the auto lockers are locked all the time except they allow an axleshaft (wheel) to over-run the ring gear. Detroit, Lockright, Kaiser, Ouverson, whatever. The precise locking mechanism is usually dog teeth except in the Kaiser it's apparently little bearing balls. But they ALL are locked all the time except on turns, or other overrun situations like one wheel travelling slightly further to climb over a rock..

Charlie

 

[MojaveLR3]

I'm confused. How did the driver get what was coming to him? This was an example of why an auto locker is not desirable.

No offense intended, but accelerating out of a tight corner on snowy/icy mountain roads doesn't seem to be a wise practice.

 

[MojaveLR3]

All the auto lockers are locked all the time except they allow an axleshaft (wheel) to over-run the ring gear. Detroit, Lockright, Kaiser, Ouverson, whatever. The precise locking mechanism is usually dog teeth except in the Kaiser it's apparently little bearing balls. But they ALL are locked all the time except on turns, or other overrun situations like one wheel travelling slightly further to climb over a rock..

Charlie

Hmmm. I was unaware of that.

 

[CJCA]

So without getting too caught up in the particular locker brand squabbles, I would like to hear the arguments for and against lockers that are non-driver activated.

The first thing that comes to mind is off camber side hills. With auto-lockers you are losing traction to both tires, instead of one when unlocked. That one stationary tire when unlocked will help you to continue on in a forward motion, rather than letting the front and/or rear diffs completely lose traction and result in you inmercifully sliding sideways down hill.

 

[Metcalf]

I have found it REALLY rare that an auto locker causes problems on sidehills IF you have both ends locked up....OR even just a full time locker in front and the rear open. It does take a more delicate touch, proper gearing, proper air pressure, etc. This is all stuff you should be doing anyways.

You will see problems is you have only the rear locked up with an open front diff. The front isn't doing its job so the rear is having to push extra hard...this causes the tires to slip downhill often. Use only a front locker or use both a front and rear locker and this goes away in my experience.

There may be that .1% chance that you can find a sidehill that is steep enough you can't make forward progress with all four tires aired down.....causing you to walk sideways. I have a hard time thinking that an open diff vehicle is going to make it up the same hill without having issues while using only two tires for driven power basically.

There are a few things I wish they made......

A powr-lok type differential with a way to increase clutch pressure on the fly. This way you could have a nice aggressive limited slip most of the time and a full locker when you got a tire way off the ground. It would be nice if it didn't take any internal rotation and you could lock and unlock at any speed or ZERO speed.

A locker that acted like a detroit or an open diff with the pull of a cable. That would be kinda cool. You could probably get away without to unlock it all the time like an ARB. I would be open or auto locker.

 

[ipgregory]

The 24 Spline Non-Sals Defender/D1-2/RRC Diff is covered yes because that is what I am running in my D90. Are you switching to Coiler Axles?

Not sure I dare refer to them as Heavy Duty.....

For the install I would also be using heavy duty 24 spline axles. Am I wrong that the Defender units would drop right in?

 

[ert01]

I ran into a couple instances when I had an auto locker in the back of my XJ and an open front diff and I got caught on a few tough sidehills. The rear kept wanting to push and it would lose traction and slide downhill. Not very fun.

What I did to get back on the trail was run a strap from the back of my Jeep to a tree behind me and uphill from the trail. Then I winched to a tree in front of me and uphill of the trail. Winching like this is kinda sketchy, but as the winch tightens and pulls the Jeep forward, it also slides the Jeep sideways and back onto the trail.

My brother had an almost identical XJ but with an open rear and auto locked front, and he had nowhere near the difficulty I had on sidehills. Mine handled mud better though with the rear locker.