automatic or stick shift ?

[HillbillyfromAL]

Wow a Defender with an auto. How about you buy the Defender with the R380 I'll swap my auto from my Discovery into it and we can call it a day?
By the way you owe me $140 bucks for the stitches I had to receive after putting my head through the wall from reading your post. The company that made this has agreed to pay for the damages to the wall

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Copied from Diesel News, just one more reason the manual is better.

Originally posted by Haven
To see if EPA ratings are attainable in the real world, Edmunds Inside Line blog took an extended trip in six cars with ratings of 40 mpg highway. Most of the vehicles came close to 40 mpg in highway driving, but the real winner was the VW Passat TDI turbodiesel. The Passat was the largest and heaviest vehicle in the group, but managed to post 51.7 mpg driving on the Interstate with cruise control set at 70 mph. The Passat surpassed its EPA estimate of 34 mpg for city driving, too, recording 43 mpg. The other 5 vehicles scored a couple of mpg lower than their EPA estimate.

One key to the Passat's impressive performance was its manual transmission.

Read the full report here http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-40-mpg-challenge.html

 

[Douglas S.]

This is the only thread I've seen on a 4x4 related forum in recent memory that has had a general consensus of a manual being superior to an automatic offroad. Almost all rock crawlers, especially at the professional level, are moving to autos (manuals are already a small minority) for the extra control they offer.

I definitely see the advantage of a stick in terms of reliability and from a field service standpoint, but I fail to see the control advantage they offer. This is coming from someone who grew up driving a manual, as well as the YJ in my sig having a manual transmission.

 

[ColoDisco]

I wheel with auto, really like the ability to stop mid obstacle, lean out and see my tire placement and just hit the gas to keep going. Not a big fan of clutch on the side of a mountain.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

I definitely see the advantage of a stick in terms of reliability and from a field service standpoint, but I fail to see the control advantage they offer. This is coming from someone who grew up driving a manual, as well as the YJ in my sig having a manual transmission.

Downhill control is the biggest one. Even on a steep downhill grade on pavement a manual affords you enough control that brakes are reserved for the idiots in front of you. Ever seen a big rig with an automatic? You also get a lower first gear ratio which is great for technical trails, and rocks. Many of them have a slightly higher final drive ratio, paired with the more efficient connection to the engine results in better mileage and less drive line stress while towing. Your reverse gear is also usually geared lower affording better control while reversing.
Now I will say this it's possible to use an automatic for all this stuff just make sure you've got a good transmission cooler, and use synthetic trans oil. Autos don't like heat and in 4low they can build up quite a bit of it. Especially in deep mud where they really do shine as they are well sealed as long as you run the breather up.
So I guess when we all say a manual gives you more control it's probably 80% in regards to more efficient engine braking, reducing the amount your on the brakes a lot. The other 20% is picking your gear ahead of time and being able to go through better than with an automatic which may have to downshift twice as it looses momentum from the the first downshift. Restarts on a steep hill may not be fun in a manual but they are a lot easier with the safety feature that makes you push the clutch in first disabled, or you do it enough to know how to work 3 pedals at once. I've got some friends who've never been able to get that and now they both have autos in their JK's.

 

[Douglas S.]

Downhill control is the biggest one. Even on a steep downhill grade on pavement a manual affords you enough control that brakes are reserved for the idiots in front of you. Ever seen a big rig with an automatic? You also get a lower first gear ratio which is great for technical trails, and rocks. Many of them have a slightly higher final drive ratio, paired with the more efficient connection to the engine results in better mileage and less drive line stress while towing. Your reverse gear is also usually geared lower affording better control while reversing.
Now I will say this it's possible to use an automatic for all this stuff just make sure you've got a good transmission cooler, and use synthetic trans oil. Autos don't like heat and in 4low they can build up quite a bit of it. Especially in deep mud where they really do shine as they are well sealed as long as you run the breather up.
So I guess when we all say a manual gives you more control it's probably 80% in regards to more efficient engine braking, reducing the amount your on the brakes a lot. The other 20% is picking your gear ahead of time and being able to go through better than with an automatic which may have to downshift twice as it looses momentum from the the first downshift. Restarts on a steep hill may not be fun in a manual but they are a lot easier with the safety feature that makes you push the clutch in first disabled, or you do it enough to know how to work 3 pedals at once. I've got some friends who've never been able to get that and now they both have autos in their JK's.

Maybe it's just the auto in my cruiser, but I have no issues in 4 low and I can take both feet off of the pedals on a steep downhill with the transmission in '1'. I have noticed that some autos (notably, my old Jeep Cherokee) do not give the driver the option of locking into '1', which gets extremely irritating for any extended downhill driving.

 

[ColoDisco]

When I put the disco in 1st on descent it stays in 1st. Crawls right down.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Almost all rock crawlers, especially at the professional level, are moving to autos (manuals are already a small minority) for the extra control they offer.

I haven't seen or heard of a Rock Crawling event in years. In the Rock Crawling world the Atlas II, Klune V, and NV4500 were some of the very popular choices. When it started to fade into Rock Racing it was easy to see why they started to shift to autos. Maintenance and repairs went to a new level, and the need to finesse through a situation disappeared. It's also when I opted out of Crawl Magazine as I can gather so much interest from Moab, and the Hammers. There was something tied to regular everyday rock crawling with the UROCK, and WE Rock events albeit taken to an extreme level. Theres plenty of great products that have evolved with rock racing, but I usually tell anyone driving like that on the trail to SLOW THE £¿¢|< DOWN and it seems to be happening alot more these days. There was at least some familiarity with the older events, or at least the pucker factor that comes at odd angles, low speeds, and three wheels on the ground. Here's a shot of me in my old Jeep on Slickrock at the Tellico OHV area before it was closed. The only Auto out there was my friends Bronco and he swapped in a 5spd after that trip.

A few more of the rigs that were either with us or we ran into

The pic above is my buddies Bronco on Slickrock

These guys were by the most irresponsible Land Rover Owners I've ever encountered, they give YJ owners a good rep

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Just to add a little color to the thread

There we go that should break the monotony. Are you still getting an Auto Defender Eric? I was serious about the swap I'll do all the work

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

When I put the disco in 1st on descent it stays in 1st. Crawls right down.

My Disco stays in first in manual mode but it isn't nearly as low geared as I would have it for steep descents, or technical terrain. It'd be fine offroad with lower gearing in the T-Case or maybe a doubler

 

[REDROVER]

its funny for example Hummer H1 in the book it says do not use your brakes during hard down hill, just put t case in low and trans in low, they are damn right about that 1or 2 mph is the speed, regardless of the grade and that's automatic trans.

 

[REDROVER]

Wow a Defender with an auto. How about you buy the Defender with the R380 I'll swap my auto from my Discovery into it and we can call it a day?
By the way you owe me $140 bucks for the stitches I had to receive after putting my head through the wall from reading your post. The company that made this has agreed to pay for the damages to the wall

loll so your rover is auto and you are complaining ? oh nooooo

going up the hard hill with one of the front tires in the air and one rear tire in the air and no lockers and stick shift? lol no thank you. ill take your automatic rover. over any stick shift .

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

The H1 also has great gear reduction I've spent my fair share of time I'm one those too

Mostly within walking distance of the Ramadi Arches

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Just let me know when to expect the Defender for the transplant

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

I still Love my Rover but I'd love it even more with a 2.8TGV and an R380.